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#20271 - 01/24/04 08:20 PM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Question in a critical but friendly and respectful manner. It would help to acknowledge the positives before you question your perceived negatives.

Well you can grow while maintaining a healthy environment for discussion.

[This message has been edited by Shotokan (edited 01-24-2004).]

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#20272 - 01/25/04 06:14 AM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
I understand your points Shotokan, but the questioning generally revolves around what are seen as negatives. That's why they're questioned.

-John

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#20273 - 02/04/04 06:30 PM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
spidey37 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/03/04
Posts: 2
Loc: usa
I will start off by agreeing you can't entirely judge a fighter by his or her training in a controlled environment.I will than go on to say yes i absolutely believe Lee was a very good fighter in his own right.The art of JKD is essentially a combat art for real life encounters.Lee has no (official) record of fighting but so what???So some guy beats up another guy within a ring area and all of the sudden we can guarantee that that man is an incredible fighter? why?Yes he may be a great UFC fighter etc but to street fight as opposed to any kind of controlled fighting should never be mistaken.I have never fought in a ring but have had my share of street fights and have beaten other people i knew who were trained or wrestling etc but on the street its all different.Lee has actually boxed in a ring in his teenage days in china.Lewis also never said Lee wasn't a fighter he simply stated that out of all Lee's students he alone was a true fighter in the sense of competitive fighting and thus he was Lee's most prominent student.Lee has many accounts of his fighting on the street and never losing.He also was known for sparring all the time during training.It is also on record that any demonstrations Lee did he would tell his sparring oponents to do whatever they could do to hit him etc, they never did a controlled set spar or pattern.Lee has always maintained training for real world combat and many of his principles could not be used inside a ring with rules.The man was physically gifted with knowledge and a determination which any man who wants to be good at anyhting can only admire.I must say some people need to rethink this whole yeah people said he was this and that but thats his fans etc.Why in the world would known professional fighting people like Bob wall and Chuck Norris etc help push along this man as a great fighter etc?If i had trained and foguht my way up like Norris i would be anything but complimentary to a man who was full of it.Dan inosanto was a former student of Ed Parker who was known for his fiery temper and conflicts with people.Many students left Parker in favor of Lee's teaching which would say to me the guy had something special.I lastly think the man was too proud and to hard working to perpetuate some false sense of ability in his students.I believe he was an honest man with integrity loved by most who actually KNEW the man so i see no need for him to lie about said conflicts nor the many honorable men who have witnessed them just to push along a simple 18 yr old man from china into icon status.I enjoy and respect everything the man and his art means to me and would hope everyone else would as well.But again fighting in a ring is not the end all of true fighting.Tank abbot , shamrock and many others are considered all this and that but they are also average by so called today standards so where do you draw the line from what is real or fake?Keep Lee's memory well and wether u agree or disagree only one man truly knew and he is sadly missed.Thanks Rich.

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#20274 - 02/04/04 08:10 PM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
Bruce Lee Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 56
Loc: Tucson, Arizona, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MuayThai:

Could the guy fight? I am sure he could but i could give you a list of people at his time who fighting under his rules would have probably KO'd him very quickly.


I think too many people think of Bruce Lee as some kind of demi God, he wasnt, he was probably at an average fighting level where pro fighters are concerned, he was human, he had limits he had flaws and he sure as hell wasnt invincible.
[/QUOTE]

OK there I would have to disagree with you. If there were so many people who could KO him quickly then where were they when he had his world wide challange where he would fight ANYONE, anywhere, under any rule. Do you see my point. He was willing to fight anyone, and if he really wasn't confident thet he could win, why would he put up that kind of challange.(Just a note - the person who fought him lost within 3 minutes. He was a master of martial arts and he ran away from Bruce.Bruce cought him though [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] )

Nobody is saying that Bruce was some kind of god, he was just a REALLY good martial artist. He is also not invincible, but I can say with confidence that if Bruce were to fight someone his size, he would win.

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#20275 - 02/04/04 08:19 PM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Don't believe everything you read.

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#20276 - 02/05/04 02:05 AM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
Isshinryukid4life Offline
Professional Injury causer

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 2455
Loc: Knoxville.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bruce Lee:
OK there I would have to disagree with you. If there were so many people who could KO him quickly then where were they when he had his world wide challange where he would fight ANYONE, anywhere, under any rule. Do you see my point. He was willing to fight anyone, and if he really wasn't confident thet he could win, why would he put up that kind of challange.(Just a note - the person who fought him lost within 3 minutes. He was a master of martial arts and he ran away from Bruce.Bruce cought him though [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] )

Nobody is saying that Bruce was some kind of god, he was just a REALLY good martial artist. He is also not invincible, but I can say with confidence that if Bruce were to fight someone his size, he would win.
[/QUOTE]Dude, You need to get out more. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

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#20277 - 02/05/04 03:19 PM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
Bruce Lee Offline
Member

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 56
Loc: Tucson, Arizona, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vash:
Don't believe everything you read.[/QUOTE]


I herd his wife say it in a documentary. She was there, so thats why I beleive it.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Isshinryukid4life:
Dude, You need to get out more. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]


Why, just because I know some facts about Bruce Lee.

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#20278 - 02/06/04 10:36 AM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
alan_cooluk Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 138
Loc: boness
I have read most of this post but stopped cause it was getting stagnated, you were saying that bruce didnt have a PROFESSIONAL fight record, that doesnt mean he can't... secondly are you going against years of thinking, that he was great. If other fighters say he was good then i believe them, they know more than you. Bruce was exceptional, his ideas and philosophy were phenomenal and dont discount him because of his PROFESSIONAL record...

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#20279 - 02/06/04 11:35 AM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5811
Loc: USA
Alan

There is no evidence that Bruce Lee was in any way "exceptional."

2nd hand claims do not count. We also have conflicting 2nd hand claims by "professionals."

Joe Lewis has been quoted as making statements agreeing with and DIS-agreeing with Bruce Lees fighting ability. Not what you call any kind of "proof."

There is simply no supportable evidence that much past his childhood "Wing Chun" days Bruce had any sort of "real fight."

In addition a good amount of what is commonly attributed to Lee was in fact written by others decades even centuries prior to Lee's birth.

According to some sources his famous "be like water" quote had been said almost verbatim by Motobu decades prior to Lee and was the concept itself can be traced to the swordsman Mushasi centiures earlier.
It goes even father back than that in China.

I mean no disrespect to his memory but PR is not proof.

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#20280 - 02/06/04 08:05 PM Re: Was Bruce Lee a fighter? And did he make JKD to actually be a fighting art?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have just joined this forum, & have read as much as I could about the previous threads. My appoligies if I am repeting things. I have just read a great book that indicates several people who did in fact see Bruce in action. As he was noted in Hong Kong to be a good fighter, who lost many battles during his gang days. As he learned Wing Chun his battles became victories, as many opponents fell to his amazing power. Was Bruce a fighter ? Yes but as he extended his Wing Chun phylosophies turning them, manipulating them,adding what was missing he divised a system that became Jun Fan, then later to become Jeet Kun Do. Joe Lewis never spared VS Bruce Lee, but used many of his fighting skills. People where stunned when Joe Lewis fought using these new skills.
Later...

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