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#202147 - 11/08/05 10:59 AM MIRRORS
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Doing it oneself:

Any suggestions how to get a HUGE 6x8 foot mirror off a contrete block wall?

It is glued/cemented in some manner, has no clips, not resting on any tracks or "held up" (ie no frame), and is REAL flush to the concrete block upon which it was cemented, glued, something... a very very long time ago.

Given the large numbers of martial practitioners here, AND the do-it-yourself skills of many... thought I would throw it out there and see if any new ideas came back

Jeff (last post of the day, off to work he finally goes)

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#202148 - 11/08/05 11:01 AM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ronin1966]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Jump spinning back kick?

You KNEW that was coming, right?

Seriously - Acrylic solvent, maybe?
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#202149 - 11/08/05 11:01 AM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ronin1966]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
*Cord looks in his crystal ball*

I forsee 7 crappy years ahead of you.....now cross my palm with biscuits
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#202150 - 11/08/05 11:03 AM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Cord]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
wow..just when I thought it couldn't get any better than Matt's biscuits...now we have Cord's 'cross-buns' !

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#202151 - 11/08/05 11:13 AM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ronin1966]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Ronin,
Sorry bud, I don't know of any easy way to do it. I think it comes under the heading of demolition. Goggles, gloves and prybars. If you have carpet use a tarp. You do not want to try to vaccum glass frament out of carpet.

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#202152 - 11/08/05 12:07 PM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ronin1966]
Isshinryukid4life Offline
Professional Injury causer

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 2455
Loc: Knoxville.
Try using a sledgehammer.
_________________________
http://www.hotforwords.com

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#202153 - 11/08/05 02:59 PM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Cord]
Mu Ryuk Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 587
Loc: California, U.S.A.
Quote:

*Cord looks in his crystal ball*

I forsee 7 crappy years ahead of you.....now cross my palm with biscuits




Hahahahaha. Nice.

Maybe paint stripper/paint remover?
_________________________
Train hard or don't bother.

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#202154 - 11/08/05 04:59 PM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ronin1966]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
If I may...we just had a new dojo built and had an entire wall lined with safety mirrors. We were going to hang it ourself but the company would not guarantee the mirrors/liability. The old dojo mirrors were the same and they took a real beating, I have seen people accually get kicked off there feet and land against the mirror and it never broke. Was it from the "glass company" hanging them a proper way or were they just tough mirror?...don't know but why take a chance of a whole mirror crashing down on someone. Some times ya just have to pay da man.
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#202155 - 11/08/05 05:07 PM MIRRORS - Not Biscuits - Geez! [Re: Ronin1966]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Like our walls ... somebody has run into them and did damage ... the same with some mirrors. Not the safest way but sure the funniest!

"Practitioners look around and pointing blame at each other so as not to feel responsible ... while the rest of the class shakes heads and laughs."

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#202156 - 11/08/05 10:23 PM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ronin1966]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia

It must be incredible workmanship to get a flat mirror so flush against a concrete block wall.

Seriously, it is a lot easy to take the wall along -- whoever put it up has decided that the mirror stays for good.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#202157 - 11/09/05 07:18 AM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ronin1966]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
before you smash it...which it sounds likely you'll have to do...cover it with duct tape. that way, the shards won't go flying everywhere.

best I can come up with...good luck.

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#202158 - 11/09/05 08:33 AM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ed_Morris]
Foolsgold Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 1635
Loc: South Lyon, MI, USA
Wouldn't that much duct tape be really expensive? (As in, along the lines of a hundred dollars, depending on the size of the wall.)
_________________________
Soy stupido, pero soy guapo!

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#202159 - 11/09/05 08:54 AM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Foolsgold]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
It was mentioned it was a 6x8 mirror. (assuming in feet)

One roll of 3" x 60yrds = about $10.
vs.
emergency room co-pay = about $15.

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#202160 - 11/09/05 06:40 PM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ed_Morris]
Foolsgold Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 1635
Loc: South Lyon, MI, USA
Ah, that's not so bad. I thought we were talking about an entire wall!
_________________________
Soy stupido, pero soy guapo!

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#202161 - 11/11/05 02:26 AM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Foolsgold]
Alicia Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 222
Loc: BC, Canada
Heat always releases glue, but I have no idea how you'd get that much heat in the right spot to release the glue - especially if it has been glued/cemeted for so long.

Don't worry about superstitions ... I broke a mirror at least a year ago, and nothing bad has happened to me (knock on wood).
_________________________
"If someone asked me what a human being ought to devote the maximum of his life to, I would answer: training. Train more than you sleep."
~Mas Oyama~

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#202162 - 11/17/05 11:08 AM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Alicia]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
I thank with gratitude everyone for their contributions, thoughts and definately the amusement. (Btw, its not ~7 years~, (sic. with this many shards)... more like 7 lifetimes of bad luck!) Did my best and got four of the original cement/tar bonds off the mirror. Then the thing went "Hiroshima" on me.... and massively exploded in shards.

No damage to me, but uggggh. the mirror was toast. (Talk about a "big bang")

Any event, I'll share what I attempted and perhaps others will be more fortunate than I in their future efforts.

Removing a Large Mirror from a Cement Block Wall
Placed a 4x8 foot piece of plywood, in front of the mirror. (intended to add backing when/if I was lucky got this beast off the wall and needed to move it around a bit. It provided shielding from sharding if/when breakage occured. Then used duct tape covering said mirror, futilely attempting to prevent sharding (sic. and failed badly). Used thick safety gloves, double layers of kevlar clothing, and expensive safety goggles.

Initially re-attempted finger prying determine if the mirror bonding on the cement block wall might hopefully be brittle. No luck. Next was a simple wood saw... c. 30" length? Regarldess there was just barely enough room between the glue/tar/bonding (c. 18" from the edge of the mirror) and the block wall to allow it. I cut for 10-15 minutes very carefully, and finally seperated two of the glue/tar bonds from the mirror. The saw being covered with heaven knows what ~ghastly material~ the original glue/tar/bond truly was comprised of. Didn't handle it with my bare hands, and would not if I had I been paid to do so.... (not a prayer)

I then gently used a pry bar, followed by two very tiny shims placed between mirror & block wall, praying to get a better look at the remaining "impediments".

I attempted a third and forth bond, but was not having as much luck for some reason. I switched to simple Home Depot quarter inch, then 3/8 inch twisted wire (c. 15-18 feet in length respectively. Looked much like piano wire, only silver and the wire fibers were much bigger.) Wrapped the ends of the wire around a dowel cut into a series of 6" handles. In short, I made two really lengthy literally "wire saws".

I slipped the wire behind the closest bond and began pulling rapidly back and forth, trying to ~saw~ through the ancient globed tar. Succeeeded to cut through two more bonds in this manner. Apparently cutting at the last bond I was not pulling the wire straight enough and broke the mirror in 20,000,000 tiny shards.

However protected by the plywood sheet in front of said mirror. Nobody died...

Perhaps we can keep this thread going, in case someone else wants to try again, or alternatively succeeds!!!!

J

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#202163 - 11/17/05 11:43 AM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ronin1966]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
glad no one got hurt, sounded like a fiasco.

live and learn...the duct tape idea was so after you had the mirror covered, you could tap breaks into it while it was still mounted. (hey, I used 'tap' and 'mounted' in a coherent sentence) of course the duct tape isn't going to hold hundreds of pounds of glass when the whole thing drops down at once. should not have allowed it to fall while it was still one massive piece.

again, glad you're ok.

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#202164 - 11/17/05 01:28 PM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ronin1966]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Although not MA related even slightly, I have greatly enjoyed this thread. Jeff, your description of getting the mirror off the wall was hilarious and terrifying at the same time.

Glad you weren't hurt. Although, now I'm definitely thinking jump spinning back kick if I ever have to do that myself.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#202165 - 11/25/05 06:31 PM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ed_Morris]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
I was offered an bone-fide ~opportunity~ to attempt something "new". Either hara-kiri or a fascinating Do It Yourself project, depending upon ones perspective. Had I succeeded it would have been ~stupendous~! As I did not, I have learned...

There were several others waiting to assist, when/if I proceeded further and removed the forth bond from/to the block wall. When we finally removed the remaining broken glass, I had at least a dozen additional bonds to seperate. Most came off with truly spooky ease.

A smart person makes mistakes and learns from them, a fool merely repeats themself...
Jeff

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#202166 - 11/25/05 07:58 PM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ronin1966]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Didn't anyone think to use masking tape....?

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#202167 - 11/25/05 09:26 PM Re: MIRRORS [Re: eyrie]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
Didn't anyone think to read the thread?

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#202168 - 11/25/05 11:38 PM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ed_Morris]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
No, I'm just an igoramus. What makes you think I would bother to read it?

You're supposed to tape it so if it does shatter, at least the tape would hold most of the shards together.

I guess the point is moot now... but I would have taped it and used a glass/diamond cutter and cut it into smaller sections before attempting to pry it off the wall.

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#202169 - 11/25/05 11:40 PM Re: MIRRORS [Re: eyrie]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
{sigh} from about 1 page back:
Quote:

before you smash it...which it sounds likely you'll have to do...cover it with duct tape. that way, the shards won't go flying everywhere.

best I can come up with...good luck.




and apparently he did just that except instead of cracking it into peices, it came crashing down and tore thru the tape luckily not injuring anyone.

theres the summary for you, so you don't have to read the whole thread, Mr Lazy.

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#202170 - 02/11/06 11:43 AM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ronin1966]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello:

A new twist on an old thread. Anyone who has installed a mirror/s (or some mirror substitute) what did you use and how did you go about it?

Consider... is it necessary to get floor to ceiling "mirror"? Or do you mount it at a certain height (?)and the ~extra~ mirror while nice would be unnecessary both technically and financially. What do you do to mount the mirror? Track or no track?

Again glass, dangerous... but I'm curious for those who HAVE done so, how did you come to the conclusions that you did re: installing your mirror... size, type, material, finish, protective measures concerning it (ie prevent shattering), etc.

Now being truly "reflective"....
J

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#202171 - 02/11/06 01:25 PM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ronin1966]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Ronin, can only give you what I have expierenced over the years at different dojo's, take it for what it's worth. There isn't a substitute for real mirrors, don't install them yourself since they are usually guranteed by the manufacture if they have the correct instalation rep.There are different types, thicknesses and backings that are taken into concideration for a MA dojo too. We just had a new dojo built last year and the mirror company came out to install an entire wall of six foot mirror, one foot off the ground by forty feet long. I'm glad it wasn't me that had to install the mirrors because they had all kinds of equipment and special types of clips and back pads that helped support the mirror. Now i know what your going to say, the money right well it came out of the loan for the dojo so it was part of the financing. Yeah they are expensive but it is something that has to be done absolutely perfect or they look like crap and you could have a big liability problem if someone gets hurt. As I always say, ALTHOUGH.... we did install some left over mirrors at my home dojo that another MA school budy gave me since he was upgrading. They were six foot by four footers, we hunge them one foot off the floor with regular old mirror clamps and spaced them out...so far so good but for a commercial establishment I would use a professional installer.
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#202172 - 02/15/06 10:46 AM Re: MIRRORS [Re: schanne]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Schanne:

Having had my (throat clearing sound) ~recent experience~ I too better understand the need for profesional installation... heck, I knew it before I made my hopeful "attempt".

But, there are an awful lot of smaller mirrors, mirror pieces and mirror like materials out there.... As such
I was very curious (hopeful) if any other list members had done their own?!?! As to the mirror that you did have installed, do you remember if you went with the thicker mirror, or one of the special "safety mirrors"??? I cannot imagine "requiring" either per se, as the "target" is never, ever the mirror. But they do make the stuff for somebody to use... Was the one foot business happenstance or was there a "why" for it? Thank you for indulging my curiousity...

<Listening sheepishly>
J

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#202173 - 02/15/06 04:39 PM Re: MIRRORS [Re: Ronin1966]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Why have safety glass? It shatters (hardly, takes allot if installed correctly) but when it does break it's like auto glaas, it shatters into small cubed pieces vs. hunks of gullotine like blades slashing anything in two on it's free fall.

The one foot space below is for dojo that have the matt mounted agaisnt the wall. Our is this way and that space is a wreck from people kicking it by accident, grapplers pushing off the wall to get leverage. Yup that space has so many patches it's ridiculous....therefore I'm padding the entire space below the mirror with the same foam and cover that on our floor, it will look nice too.

The thickness was 1/4

The mirrors were call "shatter proof mirrors" ?
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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