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#200240 - 12/07/05 09:43 AM Re: Knife Disarm...overhead [Re: RangerG]
dud Offline
Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 96
Whatever I would do IF I couldnīt run, it would include control of the weapon hand with my both hands, off balance and if I can throwing him against a wall, traffic coming, electricity, whatever, and then run like hell to get my own weapon or to scape.
Of course, easier said than done. Grabbing a hand on the middle os the night, stress, speed, blood, sweat and tears, AINīT EASY!

William E FAirbairn was a genious, and said that against a knife in trained hands...no defense. I have trained with good Arnis practicers and I say BS to all knife deffenses I see around being teaching. And this is in a DOjo... on the Street... my best martial art will be RUN - DO.
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#200241 - 12/14/05 01:08 AM Re: Knife Disarm...overhead [Re: h2whoa]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
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#200242 - 12/14/05 01:44 AM Re: Knife Disarm...overhead [Re: Fletch1]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Quote:



http://www.yrjj.net/Udekudema.html






ugh.




Double ugh.....prearranged garbage.
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#200243 - 12/27/05 11:35 AM Re: Knife Disarm...overhead [Re: h2whoa]
mean_fighter Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 160
Lets all keep in mind that being a martial artist (a good one) only slightly decreases the chance of you getting cut not stabbed.

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#200244 - 12/27/05 04:30 PM Re: Knife Disarm...overhead [Re: mean_fighter]
Subedei Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
Well, all I can say is there are a whole lot of people throughout human history who seem to disagree with you on the viability of knife disarms, Achille Marozzo for one:

http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/NewManuals/Marozzo/p187.jpg

http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/NewManuals/Marozzo/p193.jpg

I've never heard one of the old masters refer to knife disarms as "prearranged garbage". They're something that turns up quite often in fighting manuals.

Paulus Hector Mair teaches the 'guide into the leg' defense, and it's the first knife disarm we learn in Hapkido. Korea is thousands of miles away from Germany, do you really think we'd see exactly the same techniques if they were not effective?

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#200245 - 12/27/05 04:50 PM Re: Knife Disarm...overhead [Re: dud]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Very few arnis teach this strike unless as a final kill, it one of the more powerful stabs but its slow. I believe knife defense are valid and possible, even arnis and silat (all MAs teach it) teaches empty hand vs. the knife. Though obviously a disadvanatge, its possible to defend against.

But I really think in a practicle sense the thing is to defend unarmed until you can even the odds or get a stalemate. A chair bewteen you or a red brick or broken beer bottle. The man with the weapon has the advantage, get one.

Don't stay inside fighting a knife thats freely moving, if you have control never let go until he's injured serverly or disarmed. In a situation like that u might as well throw everything you got at him, its your only chance.
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#200246 - 12/27/05 04:51 PM Re: Knife Disarm...overhead [Re: Subedei]
Ed Glasheen Offline
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Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
The problem with this whole knife defense issue is that when done properly, you will never see it coming. This is what Fairburn was refering to. Attacking someone with a knife is an assasination. You will not see it , other than fakes, fonies, wanta be SF types, kids and tv anyone else dueling with a knife. It just does not happen in the pretense that is taught at your local dojo. To include all that civilian kali bs.
If I am going to use a knife on you, I will not show it, I will try to ambush or blind side you and I will stab you until you fall to the ground. Depending on the situation I may follow up with more stabs or escape the scene. Now how do you defend against this. It is a kin to get hit in the back of the head with a baseball bat.
If you happen to be on the un-lucky end of an knife attack your only recourse is to beat the living day lights out of the attacker by any means possible. No fancy moves just pure aggression and hopfully you have a hammer or something in your hand. Forget kotegeshi type moves or that BS that Fletch posted, it doesn't work ever...except when someone is uke compliant.
Pure hostile brute caveman aggression is the only offensive counter to a knife attack. How you do it is circumstantial. Your only thought process is ending the life of your attacker. Your Aikido class will not teach you that.


Edited by Ed Glasheen (12/27/05 05:02 PM)

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#200247 - 12/27/05 05:08 PM Re: Knife Disarm...overhead [Re: Ed Glasheen]
Subedei Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
Quote:

The problem with this whole knife defense issue is that when done properly, you will never see it coming. This is what Fairburn was refering to. Attacking someone with a knife is an assasination. You will not see it , other than fakes, fonies, wanta be SF types, kids and tv anyone else dueling with a knife. It just does not happen in the pretense that is taught at you local dojo. To include all that civilian kali bs.
If I am going to use a knife on you, I will not show it, I will try to ambush or blind side you and I will stab you until you fall to the ground. Depending on the situation I may follow up with more stabs or escape the scene. Now how do you defend against this. It is a kin to get hit in the back of the head with a baseball bat.
If you happen to be on the un-lucky end of an knife attack your only recourse is to beat the living day lights out of the attacker by any means possible. No fancy moves just pure aggression and hopfully you have a hammer or something in your hand. Forget kotegeshi type moves or that BS that Fletch posted, it doesn't work ever...except when someone is uke compliant.
Pure hostile brute caveman aggression is the only offensive counter to a knife attack. How you do it is circumstantial. Your only thought process is ending the life of your attacker. Your Aikido class will not teach you that.




I believe this attitude Ed, is why they haven't worked for you. Uncontrolled aggression is practically begging to be stabbed.

I stand by my assertion that if you can see the attack coming you can effectively defend against it. If you're caught completely unaware you're either facing someone very sneaky or you should have been paying more attention in a situation that's obviously headed towards violence. Either way you very well may survive and may be in fine condition to continue fighting, especially if you happen to be wearing thick clothing.

A study of swordfighting is very revealing as to what is required to actually incapacitate someone with a bladed weapon.


Edited by Subedei (12/27/05 07:22 PM)

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#200248 - 12/27/05 05:17 PM Re: Knife Disarm...overhead [Re: Subedei]
Ed Glasheen Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/21/03
Posts: 1379
Loc: Newburgh,NY,USA
Study swordfighting? like what Kendo? Aiki ken? even Kali? How many people walk around with swords? Not many. Last person I saw get killed was done with a screw driver. Not much sword play in that. Get real.


Edited by Ed Glasheen (12/27/05 05:17 PM)
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#200249 - 12/27/05 09:58 PM Re: Knife Disarm...overhead [Re: Ed Glasheen]
Mike_L Offline
Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Rio Rancho NM/Louisville KY (U...
I just use a wrist lock with a sweep followed by a kick to the face for a knife disarm, who needs a sword?
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