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#200107 - 11/02/05 10:10 AM Evil Buddha?
Kintama Offline
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Registered: 04/17/05
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This is going to sound noob, and maybe it is...

Is there such a thing/concept/incarnate as an 'Anti-Buddha' ? or does Buddha have a nemesis, even if only symbolically? or more fundamental to that...is there a notion of 'good' and 'evil' in Buddhism?

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#200108 - 11/02/05 10:19 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: Kintama]
harlan Offline
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Yes...but not in the dualistic way. The historical Buddha, I believe, was 'tempted' by Mara (delusion) on several occasions. Depending on different traditions, Nagas were either in the Mara category (of trying to obstruct) or pro-buddha (Tibetian tradition has it that Buddha became enlightened under a naga bodhi tree and they are the keepers of his hidden wisdom).

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#200109 - 11/02/05 12:53 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: Kintama]
WuXing Offline
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Technically, no. In order to become a Buddha, one must have completely awakened to the truth that all things are One. There is no seperation in reality between "things" or "states" or "forms". There is no-thing that is not a Buddha. Buddhism recognizes that "evil" springs from the false perception that there is something other than the self. "Evil" is an illusion that comes from the belief that what we are sensing and thinking is external and seperate from us. In order to overcome this "evil", a buddhist practices virtue in the form of the eightfold path, which includes the five precepts. This was taught as the way to overcome suffering, one of the four noble truths of the Buddha.

Ultimately, the only evil that Buddhism recognizes is an individual's lack of awareness of the truth.

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#200110 - 11/02/05 12:55 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: harlan]
Kintama Offline
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(so as a side note, the Taoist symbol 'yin-yang' can never be associated with buddhism I would suppose.)

I'd have a hard time "overcoming" this sort of dualism, without merely substituting it with monism or pluralism.

Also the dualism of science (observer and observed) would be a seemingly impossible barrier.

Isn't it one thing to understand and be able to talk about Zen...but to actually live Zen is something else entirely?

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#200111 - 11/02/05 12:57 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: WuXing]
harlan Offline
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WuXing:

Welcome to the forum (in case no one said 'Hi' already). Nice post: succinct and clear. (How 'un-zen' like. )

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#200112 - 11/02/05 12:59 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: harlan]
WuXing Offline
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hi harlan, thanks for the welcome. You're right, what's wrong with me? How about thios one.

Only This. *pointing to a tree*

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#200113 - 11/02/05 01:00 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: WuXing]
harlan Offline
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(harlan claps hands)

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#200114 - 11/02/05 01:21 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: Kintama]
WuXing Offline
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Yes, understanding and actually living zen are different things. No, the yin/yang symbol isn't used in Buddhism. Though, in terms of the practice of virtue, both Buddhism and Taoism share some similarities. As it was described in the Hua Hu Ching, there are essentially two paths to the truth. In one, you deny everything, seeing all as an illusion, until all you are left with is reality (Buddhism). In the other, you accept everything, allowing everything to be just as it is, until you see reality (Taoism). Both end up at the understanding that All is One, there is no seperation between this thing and that thing. Both practices stress that the ultimate reality, Source, Tao, is without duality.
As for the observer/observed barrier...quantum physics addresses that, and sort of starts breaking it down. Science and spirituality won't be seperate forever. Or even for much longer...

To practice Zen is to be in the Present. All the reading and understanding only points one towards that goal. It is something one cannot explain to others, as it is a wholly individual experience. It is something that cannot be rationalized or logically deduced, it doesn't make sense to the rational mind. It is about letting go of all judgements, even the judgements of logic which say "this makes sense and this doesn't".

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#200115 - 11/02/05 01:23 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: WuXing]
harlan Offline
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Are there versions of Buddhism that don't deny everything...that don't see all as illusion? Such as Vajrayana?

Quote:

Yes, understanding and actually living zen are different things. No, the yin/yang symbol isn't used in Buddhism. Though, in terms of the practice of virtue, both Buddhism and Taoism share some similarities. As it was described in the Hua Hu Ching, there are essentially two paths to the truth. In one, you deny everything, seeing all as an illusion, until all you are left with is reality (Buddhism). In the other, you accept everything, allowing everything to be just as it is, until you see reality (Taoism). Both end up at the understanding that All is One, there is no seperation between this thing and that thing. Both practices stress that the ultimate reality, Source, Tao, is without duality.
As for the observer/observed barrier...quantum physics addresses that, and sort of starts breaking it down. Science and spirituality won't be seperate forever. Or even for much longer...

To practice Zen is to be in the Present. All the reading and understanding only points one towards that goal. It is something one cannot explain to others, as it is a wholly individual experience. It is something that cannot be rationalized or logically deduced, it doesn't make sense to the rational mind. It is about letting go of all judgements, even the judgements of logic which say "this makes sense and this doesn't".



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#200116 - 11/02/05 02:57 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: harlan]
WuXing Offline
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Hmm, I'm not sure. I mainly know Ch'an/Zen, and the sutras it is based on, which are used in Mahayana. I believe it was in the Lankavatara sutra where it was mentioned that illusion and "reality" are really the same. The ultimate reality is non-dual in nature, and therefore is inclusive of everything considered illusory. So it's both "real" and unreal. While you are walking the path of the Bodhisattva, reaching greater and greater levels of awareness, you are still participating in this world, the illusory mind world; the body and mind go on doing what they always do.
The sutras mention over and over again that nihilistic beliefs are not the same as Buddhism. The Buddha warns his disciples not to buy into those philosophies

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#200117 - 11/02/05 03:02 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: WuXing]
harlan Offline
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Everything as one, all at the same time, with no division = Dzogchen/Vajrayana...at least from where I am at the moment.

So Kintama...Daoism/black and white if you prefer to see both sides and Buddhism if you coming at it as there is no division.

"reaching greater and greater levels of awareness, you are still participating in this world, the illusory mind world; the body and mind go on doing what they always do."


Edited by harlan (11/02/05 03:10 PM)

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#200118 - 11/02/05 03:11 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: harlan]
WuXing Offline
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well, not exactly. Taosim also sees everything as one, the goal is to be at One with the Source, Tao. However, it does acknowledge and seek to study origin of things through the combinations of yin and yang. Hsien, the Taoist immortals, are not beings of pure yin or yang, they have transcended that. Being One with the source of all life, they attain immortality. So their ultimate reality is also non-dual, the Source of All.

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#200119 - 11/02/05 03:16 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: WuXing]
harlan Offline
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Kinda which came first (chicken or egg)? The (non) goal is seeing everything as one...but the approaches...they are different? Tantric Buddhism, Daoism, Hinduism...don't they come at it that while all is one...we are stuck percieving in duality...and the goal is to 'overcome' or get past, or join/re-unite?


Edited by harlan (11/02/05 03:23 PM)

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#200120 - 11/02/05 03:28 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: harlan]
WuXing Offline
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Yes, that's how I see it anyway. The same reality is seen, the means for achieving awareness of it are different.

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#200121 - 11/02/05 03:47 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: harlan]
Kintama Offline
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harlan, I believe you have found a new source of reading material suggestions. Both of you are talking way over my head...although I understood what Jim meant about the quantum mechanics comment.
I'm enjoying the discussion though...you two are bringing to the table plenty of subjects for me to look up and learn about. thanks!

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#200122 - 11/02/05 03:49 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: Kintama]
harlan Offline
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Study tantra...and we can compare notes.

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#200123 - 11/02/05 08:52 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: harlan]
Kintama Offline
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resisting the temptation to say something 'saucy' ... and to keep this in line with topic... even Tantra have a left and right path.
The left path would be the equivalent of what we think of as 'black magic'. however, don't Tantra(ists?) consider either path to be equally valid to enlightenment? in other words,ending up at the same point. interesting philosophy. and what is being said here is that there are no such 'paths' in Buddhism?

I'm not really making any point, because I'm just reading and learning. I'm just curious as to how someone could live life without making dualistic decisions.
vegetables are good / junkfood is bad
terrorism is evil / peaceful is good
love vs hate
pain vs pleasure
.
.
etc.
we constantly make decisions like this every day without even thinking, some out of survival, some for social harmony...our instincts and morals are on automatic pilot most of the time - but they are there, and making subconscience decisions between X vs Y.

If Zen goes deeper than instincts ...then what is it that guides a Zen Buddhists morals? surely at some level there has to be choices being made...and as long as there are choices being decided, there has to be dualism. right vs wrong (morals) or best vs lesser or danger vs safety (instincts).

see what I'm saying? It is my suspicion that the absence of dualism is an illusion. or at best, an abstract thought which is interesting to toy with, but impractical in practice.

what am I missing? (I'm expecting a: 'you're being too rational' reply from Tim. which is ok, but if thats the case, then I'd like to hear how you came to learn what you know...by living these philosophies? or by reading about them?)

Thank you both...thought provoking stuff.

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#200124 - 11/02/05 09:24 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: Kintama]
harlan Offline
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The absence of dualism is not an illusion...unless you buy into a philosophy that says 'yep...it's all illusion'.

Left and right paths of tantra...still duality. I forget which is which, but it isn't about black magic. One is about manifesting oneness through physical ritual and the other is through more symbolic/academic. Obviously, one form of tantra grossly misunderstood and abused, and sensibly steered away from by serious spiritual practicioners.

Oneness, going beyond duality, means accepting the 'good' and the 'bad'. Acknowledging all the parts of oneself...including the unsavory...and isn't for the weak of mind or spirit. As Buddha said, 'the light of truth's mid-day is too harsh for tender leaves'.

As for a moral guide, every major religion seems to start with compassion. I think that is the key. If one comes from a point of compassion, there are stages of opening that preclude the misuse of others. Also, as one gets 'insights', one sees people and the world in a different way. Sees the oneness, the connections, and to hurt another is to hurt ones self.

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#200125 - 11/02/05 09:32 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: harlan]
Kintama Offline
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I can't accept good and bad equally. So the Buddha would accept witnessing a child's birth the same as witnessing a child being tourtured and killed? where does compassion come into play there...I can't see it.

(stop me if I'm being a pain)

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#200126 - 11/02/05 09:34 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: Kintama]
harlan Offline
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No wisdom here. I'm not Buddhist, I'm not zen...perhaps our resident monk may pop in and give us the lowdown. Wuxing seems knowledgable.

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#200127 - 11/03/05 04:02 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: Kintama]
butterfly Offline
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Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Harlan and Kintama,

Excellent discussion and I hope you don't mind if drop into this diologue, despite my not being any particular religion and not knowing much Buddahism... or any religion for that matter.

But, Kintama, I think Harlan really answered the question here when she mentions the Buddhist view of the interconnectedness of everything and in the idea that everything is codependent and requires each other for mutual, beneficial existence. What's done to another in harm is harming us all. Thus the act of violence carries no intrinsic value of good or evil, it is the perpetrator and his delusions that are the source of this lack of compassion. Harm to another...which is harm to yourself...is the concern.

Thus, it is the doer of the deed who apprehends less clearly the reality of this existence that needs to be examined since he seeks to harm himself through harm of others. Therein lies the understanding of compassion since it is now presented within the scope of self-preservation. The events themselves are just that, the clarity by which they are viewed by others is the question.

If one wants to, I suppose one could cloak these questions to some extent, in a Western perception of Christianity (and I mean no insult or wish to bring up Christianity's relevance as anything other than a more easily identified point of reference).

If one assumes the general western understanding of Christiantity with God the source of everthing. Then everthing stems from God. Some would conclude that evil then was a manifestation of God if he created everything. God creating evil? So then you have the dualistic nature that most Christians go by of Good and Evil and the representation of Satan as the antithesis of God.

However, if God is the creator...then he created his own nemesis. Well, the answer to this little riddle is generally...choice.

Evil exist so choice is given. In other words, an option to view the world clearly is given. And that evil was not essentially created as much formed by a lack of God's grace. And the choice of the individual to persue the right path is allowed within this distinction of good and evil, or presence of God and lack thereof.

Therefore, you still have the same symbolic entry with one Source that has manifestation of polar opposites with one positive and the other negative (or, in other words, one entirely lacking the other).

With this view in mind, someone who murders someone else is doing a deed without the grace of God to constitute his decisions. Essentially, doing evil. Again, the act is not evil in and of itself, it is the perpetrator who goes against the dictates of the "good" path which is clearer understanding of what is right and "Christian."

If you view it this way, then the Christian association with God is the cup in which half full and half empty have relavance to whichever pole one chooses. But all of it is contained within creation from one source. So, a righteous path would have a view of why evil exists and the essential idea of duality, but contained within a larger understanding that it is part of the whole and that this is only one side of the coin necessary for the existence of the
other.

-B

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#200128 - 11/03/05 08:08 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: butterfly]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Yes, you have brought up a point that has troubled me for as long as I understood, or thought I understood, the christian view of God being the primal source of ALL creation.

If ultimately it comes down to "choice" being the conscious determinator of ones action within the context of behaving 'good' or 'bad', then wouldn't the particular action that one chooses to take be already a pre-determined one issuing out of God's grace?

Or as Satan would say, God made me do it? because without an antithetical point of reference or, if you like, an "evil" element, a "good" God becomes redundant? In other words God HAS to create evil to justify His own existence?

If Adam & Eve had not behaved badly, there would have been no good & evil big bang?

If Jesus had not died and resurrected, Christianity itself would not have come into being?

I can feel a Mod's finger speeding towards the lock button.

Butterfly, we share half a name, I hope someday we can share a full beer together.
If you feel that by answering an opened can of worms may swarm the thread and thus get it locked, then don't as it would be a pity as the original topic deserves to go on.

WuXing.

Can I come and sit by your knee and be your disciple?
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#200129 - 11/03/05 08:15 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: ButterflyPalm]
harlan Offline
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I can only think, that if 'Oneness' or 'returning to the source' is equated to the concept of 'God'...that the percieving of evil/not-good/'satan'/duality is only possible from a 'fall from grace'/unity.

To get back on topic: an 'evil' buddha can only exist in perception/idea if there is also an idea of 'good' buddha'.

Who said that the historical Buddha was good?

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#200130 - 11/03/05 08:31 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: butterfly]
WuXing Offline
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great post butterfly, and it is good to bring it around to Christianity, which generally isn't so foreign to English speaking people

In understanding non-duality, you don't think of actions as "good" and "bad". It's neither right nor wrong to seek the truth. But if you are headed down the path to truth, then there are some actions that serve that purpose and other actions that do not. Compassionate acts which confirm your interconnectedness serve that purpose. Hurting people does not. Giving of onesself without boundary serves the purpose. Being greedy and stealing does not. It's not because the acts are intrinsically right or wrong that you make your decisions.
It's like having a map, and choosing to go to a certain place. If you're going to California, you have to go a certain direction from where you are, take certain roads. It's not wrong to go to New York, there are lots of people in New York. But if California is your goal, there's a certain direction you need to go to get there. The metaphor breaks down now, because in Buddhism it is believed that everyone will at some point want to go to California, in this life or in another life somewhere down the line, and the Buddha's path is there whenever they are ready to take it. So people who seem nowhere near the path, commiting "evils" and falling prey to the cycle of karma and samsara, are not "lost" or condemned without hope. Everyone has the ability to come around and leave "hell" some day, when the conditions are right for them. Because there is no such thing as "time", it doens't matter how "long" it takes someone, once you get "there" you realize you've always been Here.

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#200131 - 11/03/05 08:34 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: WuXing]
harlan Offline
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Oh, WuXing....why did you leave Massachusetts?

Your clarity is refreshing. Thank you.

(I'm going to bookmark this thread!)


Edited by harlan (11/03/05 09:10 AM)

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#200132 - 11/03/05 09:32 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: WuXing]
Kintama Offline
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couldn't help it...after reading your last, I was humming to the song 'Hotel California'.

I was going to write something earlier, but everyone steered the thread nicely. These are the thoughts and questions I wanted to explore... I'm sure I'll have more questions from them.
Here is a speedbump I'm having on my way to Cali : how can someone be a oneness (non-dualistic) if they are not aware of all sides of a coin? and if they ARE aware of the sides, isn't that dualism?
example: A child might not be aware of the dangers of playing on top of a water well...they are living in the moment by observing an interesting looking bug that also sits on the well top. The bug jumps, the child flinches and falls in.
The child followed a path of living in the moment, yet initially failed to make the correct DUALISTIC choice of either climbing on top of the well or not climbing up. A choice between Good/Bad.
If someone is not even aware of a dualistic path such as 'bad' or 'danger', they would go thru their short life as naive. Therefore, it doesn't seem possible to treat both paths as equal, since a person will always bias themselves and decisions based on a host of factors which make up knowledge and wisdom.
Simply: If a Buddha is enlightened and without duality...then he/she must not make a distinction between enlightened and unenlightened. so in the eyes of a Buddha, why is the child now at the bottom of the well?

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#200133 - 11/03/05 09:41 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: Kintama]
harlan Offline
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When you are 'in the flow' in kata, or completely focused on a 'target' spot in bunkai....in that very moment...is there an awareness of your 'self'? The moment 'the watcher' becomes aware of self...there is duality. The moments when there is no awareness of self because the watcher is completely absorbed...are moments of non-duality. Being aware of the sides as seperate vs being aware of the sides as being seperate and AT THE SAME TIME AND IN THE SAME SPACE (kwatz) being aware that the coin is whole is non-duality.

How many times can you divide a circle...and still it is a circle? How many parts does the number one have?


Edited by harlan (11/03/05 09:42 AM)

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#200134 - 11/03/05 10:04 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: harlan]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
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Looking at the Yin / Yang Symbol as a singularity and not 'made up' of two parts?

Just to bridge the small pause before some lengthy reply comes on.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#200135 - 11/03/05 10:07 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: ButterflyPalm]
harlan Offline
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Or understanding the idea of 'no-sword', or 'life-giving sword', or a 'compassionate killing' (which is where Budo and Buddhism seperate, I think).

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#200136 - 11/03/05 10:20 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: harlan]
WuXing Offline
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You are aware of the coin, but you are also aware that there is no coin.
"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead, only try and realize the truth." "What truth?" "There is no spoon. Then you will see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself." -Boy and Neo from The Matrix

The state of non-duality is completely transcendent, no longer restricted by space and time. If the child was truly "in the moment", he could not be harmed in any way. He would not perceive the bug or the waterfall, only himself everywhere he sees. Time would "stop" and evertyhing would be just as it Is. This is what Zen practices...being right Here, only This. If you were to fall and die? The body and mind pass from one state to another, and there is nothing more natural than this. Why be afraid of such a "death"?

Practicing this does not mean "common sense" ceases, because the mind does that all by itself. You don't need to worry about it. The body and mind go on functioning in the way they do, until they don't anymore. "Before you are enlightneed you chop wood and carry water. After you are enlightened, you chop wood and carry water"

The functioning of the world doesn't cease. There are still protons and electrons, and positive and negative forces, people doing all manner of things good and bad. What changes is your perception of these things. You realise that the seperation between things is an illusion, thus the different "things" themselves are illusions. The sense of "self" is an illusion...all is One, you are every thing and feeling and thought that there is. Any journey inevitably comes full circle, because there is really nowhere to go. Both Buddhism and Taoism say this.

This is lots of talking for something that can't be explained, but only experienced indiviually But words can sometimes help a person to look someplace inside they didn't think of looking before. "A finger pointing to the moon".


Seriously, I don't know that much. I hope the things I've been saying will encourage someone to go look for things themselves, because that's how I found what is working for me. Read some sutras, read some Taoist and Zen/Ch'an writings, and decide for yourself what it all means. Practice some meditation, walk through nature, and practice martial arts and decide how it makes you feel.

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#200137 - 11/03/05 10:22 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: harlan]
Kintama Offline
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I think I get it. putting some points in CAPS helped keep my attention...lol thanks.

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#200138 - 11/03/05 10:26 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: WuXing]
harlan Offline
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Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
"Practice some meditation, walk through nature, and practice martial arts and decide how it makes you feel."

Thank you for that teaching.

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#200139 - 11/03/05 10:29 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: WuXing]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
I appreciate everyone's input to the thread. I'm now a slightly more informed Secular Humanist.

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#200140 - 11/03/05 10:35 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: ButterflyPalm]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Butterflypalm,

BTW, I am not extolling Christianity or Buddhism. Just thought I'd share some ideas. And I know the original focus is on Evil Buddha...but, I think some comparative stuff might be necessary so that the western side of us has reference.

So, I hope no one minds if I put a few thoughts forward.

Quote:

If ultimately it comes down to "choice" being the conscious determinator of ones action within the context of behaving 'good' or 'bad', then wouldn't the particular action that one chooses to take be already a pre-determined one issuing out of God's grace?





Possibly...and a very Calvinist presentation...but what you have is that a choice...and thus understanding is presented. Therefore the actions of the individual are not necessarily preordained, but are allowed to flow from independent choice, even though an omniscient being would know the outcome...a choice has to be allowed. Fate or probability?

Quote:

Or as Satan would say, God made me do it? because without an antithetical point of reference or, if you like, an "evil" element, a "good" God becomes redundant? In other words God HAS to create evil to justify His own existence?





The above is acknowledged in certain Muslim traditions where Satan is accepted in higher appreciation as being a tool for God. However, Satan, had a choice...then it can be reasoned that an Omniscient/ Omnipotent being could use that choice and change it to have benefit. Again, evil in can be presented as the lack of God, or the rejection of him and the consequences of actions without this understanding.

Quote:

If Adam & Eve had not behaved badly, there would have been no good & evil big bang?






Well, the understanding of Adam and Eve's fall from grace can be interpretted by some as the "Fortunate Fall" whereby your existence could not be without it. Choice was granted to you by this act.

In the garden, then, the Devil was allowed access. How could an omniscient being not know what was happening? Why?
To present a choice. An example would be something akin to keeping lab rats in a cage where health would equal "goodness." You give them all the best things, all the best vitamin rich foods and the rats grow strong. However, if you throw a hunk of chocolate cake in there and some soda pop...well, now its the rat's turn to choose what would be healthy or not. The problem with the cage and the provision of all things good...is that it allows only good without the active participation of the individual.

Christians believe in the resurection...thus the hope of redemption. I am not necessarily a Christian, but just thought I'd share some ideas that I have pondered. I am not religious, particularly.

And, BTW, a beer and some conversation would be welcome any time.

Sorry for the digression, but sometimes it's easier for my half western brain to grasp things in the format I am more familiar with. And by the way...my mom is a Buddhist...my father Luthern. I am neither. Go figure.

-B

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#200141 - 11/03/05 10:43 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: WuXing]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
WuXing,

Thank you very much. And all on this thread, it was very pleasurable for me to read and try to wrap my noggin around a few concepts. Later, I'll be joining Kintama in the Secular Humanist lounge. I'll be the one with the beer.

-B

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#200142 - 11/03/05 10:53 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: butterfly]
Kintama Offline
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Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
I'll be the one with the duality complex trying to decide between root beer and ginger ale.

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#200143 - 11/03/05 10:55 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: butterfly]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
The Thread is saved by two insects and a secular humanist?

There is Zen right there.

Thanks.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#200144 - 11/03/05 10:57 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: ButterflyPalm]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
There is no-thing to be saved.

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#200145 - 11/03/05 10:59 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: ButterflyPalm]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
And a Christian lay minister, administraitor, practicing Wu wei.


Edited by oldman (11/03/05 11:01 AM)

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#200146 - 11/03/05 11:04 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: oldman]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia

Amen.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#200147 - 11/03/05 11:35 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: ButterflyPalm]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
Amitabha

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#200148 - 11/03/05 11:43 AM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: WuXing]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
"Let it Be"
-Beatles

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#200149 - 11/03/05 03:03 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: Kintama]
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
This has been an incredibly worthwhile read, thank's to everybody!

When one reads Butterfly's long post and considers the subjects are two that he doesn't know much about, one almost faints at the thought of what it would look like if he was to write about something more familiar

(I disqualify myself from active participation in this discussion, because although my interest is keen, my linguistic skills fail big time on this level )

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#200150 - 11/03/05 03:20 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: nenipp]
Foolsgold Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 1635
Loc: South Lyon, MI, USA
Don't stop! This is one of the best threads I've ever seen, I'd hate for it to end.
_________________________
Soy stupido, pero soy guapo!

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#200151 - 11/03/05 03:23 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: Foolsgold]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
It's the way of things. Like Avalokitesvara/Kuan Yin, find enlightenment in the silence between words and sounds. Or posts and threads.

"A person who is alone canít hold a conversation. A drum has to be hollow for its sound to reverberate. Absences count. Words limit. Interpretations differ. What isnít said is also relevant. Absolute Truth cannot be expressed in words. It must be experienced.

And then, in eloquent silence we best reveal that we have awakened to the Dharma." -Han Shan


Edited by WuXing (11/03/05 03:25 PM)

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#200152 - 11/03/05 03:24 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: Foolsgold]
Foolsgold Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 1635
Loc: South Lyon, MI, USA
If "evil" is distortion of truth, then what would "a fool's gold" be?

I'll pretend that the irony was purposeful .
_________________________
Soy stupido, pero soy guapo!

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#200153 - 11/03/05 03:26 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: Foolsgold]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Yes...please Oldman...cut the thread. Let it be complete as is. I do prefer some threads be closed and have an ending.

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#200154 - 11/03/05 03:30 PM Re: Evil Buddha? [Re: harlan]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
agreed...let it be.

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