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#198470 - 11/01/05 05:55 AM Re: Throwing Big Guys [Re: h2whoa]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Actually, when I posted this, I was venting, not really asking for advice.

I know my technique needs work. On the rare occassions I get everything just right, I can throw him, but I still feel the weight difference between him and someone smaller - I know I have a 220lbs+ guy on my hip/back when I throw him. And remember, I said I have to use O-Goshi. If it were my choice, I would use some other throw.

But let's look at the size thing...

In sparring, where I have the chance to off-balance him, with proper technique, yes, it's possible I can throw him.

Weight matters,it's a fact. That's why they have weight classes. Yes, weight classes, even in Judo.

Since we're in a Judo forum, let's talk about Judo Randori. You have a guy 40lbs heavier than you, and taller. Bigger than you typically means stronger than you. He's going to use his size and strength against you. He will push you around, he will use his strength to unbalance YOU. A smart player will anyway. Your technique must be perfect. An equally or better skilled opponent with a 40lbs+ advantage leaves you no room for errors.

It's one thing to throw an untrained person with a weight advantage, another to throw a skilled person with a weight advantage. Maybe some of you are just that good that you can throw anyone, anytime.

As for using Kano or any of those greats as an example, you can't. They are the elite of the elite. They can do what most men can't.

If weight doesn't matter, why do we have weight classes? Not just in Judo, in all sports. Why? The answer simple, weight matters.

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#198471 - 11/01/05 07:05 AM Re: Throwing Big Guys [Re: h2whoa]
RobNus Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 76
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
well said.

*reciprocates the reciprocate of the reciprocate respectful bow*

(...that could go on for a while...)
_________________________
Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

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#198472 - 11/01/05 08:29 AM Re: Throwing Big Guys [Re: BigRod]
NEAS Offline
Banned Member

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 168
na na na na na na Seems like you dont want to win??????
Regards you decide that some men have it some men dont well!!!!!!!! Human all have the same amount of limbs,,,,well most any how. I have beaten stronger faster even more skilled opponents in the past and either they trained harder and beat me or they give up? MA is, or so i study about but often dont see put into practice, about building a spirit if you get knocked down youget back up.Easier said than done but if you want it you will get it. How ??? find a weakness. Mental or physical and then have the answer to that weakness. How again??? study some one who is sort of or has been in that position.Seems like your looking for exscuses why you cant win????A lighter oppenent can beat a heavier opponent,

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#198473 - 11/01/05 08:47 AM Re: Throwing Big Guys [Re: NEAS]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Seems like you don't understand him at all.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#198474 - 11/01/05 08:53 AM Re: Throwing Big Guys [Re: JoelM]
h2whoa Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Fiji

Quote:

Actually, when I posted this, I was venting, not really asking for advice.




I still say to check your alignment and entry, it will help! whether you want my advise or not here it is!! Please never give up trying that is what MA is all about!!

*bows respectfully*


Edited by h2whoa (11/01/05 09:41 AM)
_________________________
No matter how fashionable it is on Krypton, I will not wear my underwear on the outside of my Gi!!

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#198475 - 11/01/05 09:11 AM Re: Throwing Big Guys [Re: BigRod]
NEAS Offline
Banned Member

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 168
Bigger does not mean stronger,,, I sparr with heavier men than me. Ok here is an example. Where i weight train is an 125 kg body weight ex bench press champion, 230 kg bench press.and yes he can fight.Could i beat him in a legal no holds barred fight?!!!!!!answer yes. He knows it, 70% chance of beating him. Could I beat him at judo?
50% chance yes i could. How ?Judo is all about putting some one on their back agreed? It would be with a foot sweep/throw of some description and i would have to be very fast on my feet. That means i would have to automate the techniques specific for that fight. I would have to have some indication what he can and cant do. How would I know this? here is a question for you? can you throw right handed and left handed? I can,,, works wonders on people,but i aint going on ego trips,when i fight or sparr i need to know whats right and what needs work. The needing work bit is never ending.
Another thing that springs to mind is ? When i was first training judo i trained with loads of brown and black belts.
There was no teaching methods i would now approve of.It was some basic throws kind of lots of randori. As a yellow belt i beat one or two black belts on my fitness and fighting spirit. Yep i got beat lots of time by others. I had tuition at a later date from a women and a very good black belt. I train my self and have done for years. Others train with me partly to aquire the techniques i have made usable for me. So perhaps draw what you can from what i have written.

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#198476 - 11/01/05 09:13 AM Re: Throwing Big Guys [Re: h2whoa]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Quote:

Its mental as much as physical!
*bows respectfully*




Thinking size doesn't matter, is that the mental part?

It's strange that you bow alot yet think size doesn't matter...I'd have thought anyone with a bend over reflex would be familiar with how size can overpower.

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#198477 - 11/01/05 09:22 AM Re: Throwing Big Guys [Re: h2whoa]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

Quote:

Seems like you don't understand him at all.




I still say to check your alignment and entry, it will help! whether you want my advise or not here it is!! Please never give up trying that is what MA is all about!!

*bows respectfully*




Seems like you don't understand me at all. I was not talking to you.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#198478 - 11/01/05 10:00 AM Re: Throwing Big Guys [Re: Kintama]
h2whoa Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Fiji
Quote:

Thinking size doesn't matter, is that the mental part?




Believing that size doesnt matter is the mental part. As I said in my earlier post I have been on both ends of the spectrum, the small guy and the big guy, I threw the big guys like the small guys throw me now.
Judo was not originally designed to defend yourself against only the same sized opponents, if a larger opponent came at you, you could engage. Judo is first and formost a SD MA!
Judokas dont think "I cant win hes to big", they step up and take him to the ground. If they thought this way, you and I would not be practising Judo because it would have died out. Seriously who attacks people bigger than them? How many more people attack smaller opponents? Can you see where I am heading! Your assailant in real life situation will almost always be bigger than you! I think I am safe from 50kg men (I am a 130kg). What about women Judoka, they would be attacked by men, almost always the men would be bigger and stronger....is Judo not practical for them then? Mind over matter. If your sensei doesnt teach this, maybe you should find another Dojo!

Quote:

It's strange that you bow alot yet think size doesn't matter




What does my bowing have to do with my opinion????

Quote:

I'd have thought anyone with a bend over reflex would be familiar with how size can overpower.




What do you mean by this? Please explain yourself, I dont like the way you have brought this across, I will be forced to report you to admin if you do not explain this!

*turns from kintana*
*bows respectfully to everyone else*
_________________________
No matter how fashionable it is on Krypton, I will not wear my underwear on the outside of my Gi!!

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#198479 - 11/01/05 10:30 AM Re: Throwing Big Guys [Re: h2whoa]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
ok, I'll explain.
bowing:
you've been told several times that your constant bowing is annoying, since you have not heeded this feedback, it is considered disrespectful....therefore your bowing is a fair taget of ridicule.

smaller vs. larger argument:
The topic has been covered ad-nauseum. do a search. If you live in a world with the same laws of physics (not sure about krypton), then a big guy will be harder to throw than a small guy and dramatically affects technique when comparring the two extremes. To say there is 'no difference' is naive. and once again, subject to a chuckle.
I'll make a deal with you...you try lightening up and I'll try ignoring your posts....fair?

Admin: please don't put me in the cell with the big guy!

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