FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 14 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
BUJU, Pilsungkarate, ALF, old1, Leonar
22928 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Ronin1966 3
futsaowingchun 2
ergees 2
GojuRyuboy13 2
AndyLA 1
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
New Topics
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
10/25/14 04:53 PM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by Leo_E_49
01/24/12 02:58 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Recent Posts
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/29/14 10:01 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
10/25/14 04:53 PM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
10/22/14 07:20 AM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by swordy
10/11/14 09:21 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ronin1966
10/08/14 09:22 PM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by AndyLA
10/04/14 10:20 AM
Forum Stats
22928 Members
36 Forums
35584 Topics
432513 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#198314 - 10/28/05 03:05 AM Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme???
dogfacedboyuk1 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 116
I'd like to hear peoples opinions on the value of kata competition and it's effects, values/lack of values etc. Sorry if this subject's been done, but it'll be interesting to hear everyone's view. I personally see it as a waste of time, but maybe someone can change my mind - I'm open to thoughts on the matter.

Top
#198315 - 10/28/05 08:08 AM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: dogfacedboyuk1]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
I think it is probably as valuable as any other form of competition. Spelling Bees produce very good spellers and recognise andreward the most proficient. I have never spelled well but it hasn't kept me from being a productive member of society.

Top
#198316 - 10/28/05 08:30 AM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: dogfacedboyuk1]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
I will do it if im asked by Sensei, but i draw the line at trying to win, specific competition training.

kata is about function before form for me.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

Top
#198317 - 10/28/05 09:04 AM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of Time??? [Re: dogfacedboyuk1]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
I suppose a competition could let you know how pretty your kata is compared to others. I'm not sure how judging goes if more than one style is competing, it seems that is must be pretty subjective. If the judges like you, or practice the same style you do, you'd do better I'd guess.
A classmate of mine won a forms competition once. It was sponsored by the karate-kenpo chain that's all over the place in this city, and all styles were invited. They had these little boxes on mats on the floor, in which the kata was supposed to be performed. He was performing a northern style praying mantis form, so he asked the judges if he could have three of the mats to perform on. He was a great performer, and the form has lots of jumping double smash kicks and really fast hand techniques, as well as a drop kick and a backwards roll/throw. Besides that it was three times as long and took up three times as much space as any other kata would. How could any traditional karate or kenpo kata compare to that? It's like if everyone was performing pinan kata, and then one guy does kusanku really well.

Competing in tournaments isn't bad as a way to compare styles, compare knowledge, and just meet other martial artists. But it should never be focused on as a goal of one's paractice.

Top
#198318 - 10/28/05 09:23 AM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: dogfacedboyuk1]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
What's next......the heavy bag competition?
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

Top
#198319 - 10/28/05 10:17 AM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: schanne]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:

What's next......the heavy bag competition?




That would be interesting. I'm not into tournaments and competetion,but I think it's good for kids or those who like it. A guy told me yesterday that he doesn't do short katas because they're not good in tournaments.........:sigh:
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

Top
#198320 - 10/28/05 10:31 AM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: SANCHIN31]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Kata competition is one of the most valuable training tools you can use to help your development.

First you have to understand all judges are idiots, and taking first place awarded by idiots, what does that make you in turn?

It's not about winning, fairness or the American Way of Life (joke). It's about the competition.

Absolutely nothing pushes you as hard as standing in front of hundreds or thousands of spectators and pushing your kata out before them.

You burn energy at the highest level you can do, outside of actual combat, and you have a chance to focus in ways no other form of training can offer. And only for a few bucks, relatively speaking.

You don't do it for applause, other's good feelings or the judges scores.

The reason is you want to push yourself to the maximum performance you can offer.

And there are layers offered to you. If just the competition isn't enough, go up to the judges and hand them a card with a list of kata, and request them to pick one for you on the spot, and then have to deliver it 100%.

The only lack of use of competition is the lack of foresight how valuable it can be.

It's not mandatory for training, but it can be a personal tool of the highest magnitude.

Or perhaps you just don't have what it takes to go before thousands and show what you can actually do?
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

Top
#198321 - 10/28/05 01:05 PM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: Victor Smith]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Personally I think Kata Competition is harder then sparring. If you train daily, have good basic techniques and athletic you can spar. But in front of a crowd of 100-1k of people. In front of informative non bias jugdes, its very difficult to perform Kata well. This sort of pressure transfers well in giving book reports in front of class, business presentation, sells, managing/selling you self or acting on stage. In this way Karate can mimick life pressure.

Kata is about Self Discipline and Mental sharpness, you only have 1 chance to sink it and almost every detail must be as sharp as possible. In sparring if u miss or made an error U can cover it with another counter or techinque, R U can improvise. In Trad Kata you can't we'll you can but its noticed and you have to keep going. When I'm judging Kata if a teacher/contestant doesn't specified modified I count changes in the form as errors. Long Kung-fu forms done without proper basic, stance and flow counts against him, done propely it scores high. Low rank doing higher ranked forms poorly really count against you, done well and I question him/her being at that low rank, but scores well.

Kata Competition prepares and gives you the mental toughness of a car, vaccuum saleman, a mid manager giving a presentation, it cures shyiness, lifts low self esteem, raise technical concisousness and shows school pride. Not everybodys suited to be a tag/tourney fighter, some people are good at showing techniques. In this way MA has something for everybody. I've alway took pride in doing both. But In saying that being honest I'd usually fight rather then do kata unless I really trained hard, I seem to always take the easy way out.


Edited by Neko456 (10/28/05 01:10 PM)
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#198322 - 10/28/05 01:36 PM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: Neko456]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Guys, I was going to post my opinion on Competition Kata (and it wasn't going to be pretty!)...but I read Victors post and decided to hold off and ponder for a bit. I'd glad to say that I've got a new found respect for competition kata.....cheers!

I still think musical Kata is dancing though!!!! Changing my mind on that is a going to be one hell of a challange!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#198323 - 10/28/05 02:05 PM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: Gavin]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

Top
#198324 - 10/28/05 02:15 PM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: Neko456]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
Is having the mental toughness of a car salesman something I want? Vacuums? A mid-manager!? now you're talking!

Seriously, these are good points, and performing in front of others does test your nerve and ability to perform under pressure. That's what tests are for, too, though. Maybe competing is taking it to another level.

Still, I think the best way for me to stay calm under pressure is the practice of zen meditation. Fostering clarity and fearlessness in every day practice, there's no need to go out of your way to prove anything to anyone, even yourself. All is complete, right here and Now.

Top
#198325 - 10/28/05 02:40 PM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: Victor Smith]
dogfacedboyuk1 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 116
Quote:

It's not mandatory for training, but it can be a personal tool of the highest magnitude.

Or perhaps you just don't have what it takes to go before thousands and show what you can actually do?



Some interesting views but I certainly would not consider it "a tool of the highest magnitude". One good method for training real kata skills would be to practice bunkai in free kumite against real attacks performed at full speed and power. Doing this would be of a much "higher magnitude" than performing kata in front of many people and you get more than one go at doing it. So long as your training partner has every intention of hitting you hard it should develop enough adrenalin in you - there should be no feeling of compliance by the attacker as seen in many training drills.

Your other points on competition in Kata I would very much agree with. It should be performed in this manner in order to retain it's true spirit. So any of you pretty boys (and girls) out there and you know who you are, read Victors post. The best kata competition I ever did was the Shotokan Cup - a KUGB individuals event. The kata is not performed against anyone else, you're up on your own and you get scored as if you were competeting in a final. Highest scores go through to the following round. This is a far more sensible way to do kata tournaments.

As to the second part of the above quote, I hope that comment was not directed at me personally and was intended as a general remark to all with a similiar viewpoint to my own. As to it's insinuation, you are wrong, I have competed in many kata events. I didn't really worry about winning at it as I was more interested in Kumite. The difference between the two was I always performed strong kata and never walked off the mat feeling I'd let myself down. Kumite is very different - you are frequently feeling all kinds of negative thoughts if you lose. Either feeling that you should of done something different, or the ref made a bad call or just generally disappointed in your own performance.

Top
#198326 - 10/28/05 03:52 PM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: dogfacedboyuk1]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
My final comment was rhetorical, not personal in it direction. It's difficult to separate intent of course, I was trying to engage everyone with that remark.

The use of competition in kata is for the highest push in energy development and execution. The totally random use of kata technique against random attack is an entirely separate and needed tool too. This is where you work to link the energy of the kata to the application, an entirely separte skill set except in the most exceptional individuals from my short experiences.

There is no one right way, but many times there are many that can be very useful.

And for the record I have a personal kata scoring system that makes the most sense. If any technique in a kata is execucuted at less than 100%, the final score must be zero. otherwise the score is 100. There are no second places in using kata if your life is on the line, and accepting anything else as a goal is inadequate.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

Top
#198327 - 10/28/05 09:31 PM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: Victor Smith]
dogfacedboyuk1 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 116
Ok Victor, I'll give a little way to you on the kata adrenalin thing. When training on the class performing kata, my main focus was always perfection of the technique - I knew I could put 100% power into it anytime I liked, but doing so would have not achieved my purpose. Polishing it up was always more important to me so I took my spirit and power down a notch to allow for extra concentration on the techniques, especially the "inbetween" movements - as being discussed in another post at moment. At the kata competitions I did feel that extra andrenalin you mentioned and I just all out went into hyper pyscho killer mode. It was only a marginal increase in my level of performance as I'm a big guy and I like to perform my katas with plenty of spirit and power when being watched or demonstrating normally. I don't NEED a crowd watching me to pump me up, but it does give that small margin. I think having a senior instructor watching would do more for my performance than a crowd at a competition.

Top
#198328 - 10/29/05 12:29 AM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: dogfacedboyuk1]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia

Since competitive diving doesn't make you into a better swimmer, why have or enter diving competitions?

Victor said it all. Can't add anymore.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

Top
#198329 - 10/29/05 05:58 AM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: JoelM]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:


http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...ue#Post15758622

Have fun.




Damn you Joel! And double damn you Victor! Now where's that Rocky soundtrack, I've got some kata to do!!!!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#198330 - 10/29/05 03:44 PM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: Gavin]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Da, da da da-da da-da da, Da, da da da-da da-da da, Da, da da da-da da-da da, Da da.... Da....Da.......
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

Top
#198331 - 10/30/05 04:05 AM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: Victor Smith]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#198332 - 10/30/05 09:56 PM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: Victor Smith]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

Da, da da da-da da-da da, Da, da da da-da da-da da, Da, da da da-da da-da da, Da da.... Da....Da.......





With all due respect, is that in 4/4, 3/4 or 8/11 time?
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

Top
#198333 - 10/31/05 05:49 AM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
It's been literally decades since I've thought about the 'time' a piece is written in.

It's the "Rocky" theme music, watch the movie and figure that out yourself <GRIN>.

Interesting 'Stalone' is back making the next Rocky too, (and also Rambo returns after that).
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

Top
#198334 - 10/31/05 07:58 AM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: Victor Smith]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Anyone willing to bet that Rocky defeats a terrorist in the ring?

Top
#198335 - 11/14/05 11:02 AM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: JoelM]
Toudiyama Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 229
Loc: Zaandam, Netherlands
Kata shiai is oly benificial if it is 1 style only, in multistyle event there is a tendency to judge all as if they were either Shotokan or Goju, as a result you will see others adapting their kata
Wado people standing in wider stances and loud exhaling on excecution of the technique and using less kime then they should as a wado karateka ( less kime is less focus, so using power for a longer period of the excecution)


And I'm talking WKF ITKF Kata shiai, not those competitions in the US (yuk) those are messing up the karate for shure with their backflips salto's and othe XMA [censored]
_________________________
Red white and blue striped belt

Top
#198336 - 11/14/05 12:16 PM Re: Kata Competition - A Waste of TIme??? [Re: Toudiyama]
phoenixsflame Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 402
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
I personally would rather take a hammer to my crotch then go to an open tournament. Open VS Traditional, AAU tournaments in America with Karate are VERY Traditional... I have been to a few and they are judged well with a broad understanding of the multiforms that will be there. The Kumite is realistic, only the white padded hand mat's and a helmet if you're under 18 (or above if you want it)

You can attack the back, the kidney's, take downs, the entire gambit.


Open tournament = Yeah... lame. Gimme a break.

If you're using Glow Sticks and Techno music, you're not doing Kata, you're at a Rave in a gi.
_________________________
While everything changes, nothing is truly lost.

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga