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#198023 - 10/31/05 02:15 PM Re: Dogen on perception [Re: Kintama]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

If we think of it in Universal terms, an alien race with double the amount of senses will have a much better grasp on 'reality' ...wouldn't they? The one with the right/best senses for survival wins?




Just a thought on 'alien' senses...sharks, stingrays, and other fish use electromagnetic sensors to find prey. Dolphins, bats, and some fish use 'sonar' to navigate and find prey as well.

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#198024 - 10/31/05 02:17 PM Re: Dogen on perception [Re: JoelM]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
And still...complete as they are, being the best fish, stingrays, dolphins, etc....they are caught in nets beyond their understanding. They would have to be other than they are...evolved...to 'see' the nets.


Edited by harlan (10/31/05 02:17 PM)

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#198025 - 10/31/05 02:26 PM Re: Dogen on perception [Re: Kintama]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by Kintama -

Quote:

Right now, all of the Mars projects world-wide total research investment each year is less than what oil company profits are each quarter




Exxon profits this quarter - US$9,000,0000,000

Although terra-forming Mars is a questionable idea for now, as there is no tectonic activity there. Some scientists think that many chemical activities (gas/mineral exchanges, etc) related to tectonic activity are essential to life as we know it.

Although I agree that research is absolutely needed in this area. I perceive that need being very great!
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#198026 - 10/31/05 02:29 PM Re: Dogen on perception [Re: harlan]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

They would have to be other than they are...evolved...to 'see' the nets.




What do you mean by 'see' ?

Do you mean they would have to evolve more?

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#198027 - 10/31/05 02:36 PM Re: Dogen on perception [Re: JoelM]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
One can 'see' a net, or 'reality' with eyes...but 'seeing' involves conceptual 'understanding'. Even knowing 'what' a net is, the purpose, all the details...would not lift a dolphin out of the water. The brain could evolve, and it would be perhaps a smarter dolphin, but to escape the net...it would be forever swimming. And still, even though it now knows about the net...nothing has changed.


Edited by harlan (10/31/05 02:39 PM)

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#198028 - 10/31/05 02:53 PM Cherry blossoms on Mars. [Re: harlan]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
I invested in the future when I decided to father children.

Therein lies my hope for humanity. It's a long-shot but I'm hoping we eventually learn from our mistakes and evolve to something better than primates fighting over a banana.

To survive another day so we may fight each other tomorrow. It's a wonder we haven't wiped ourselves out already.

You have to remember that your inner growth is only possible if you have enough food to eat. Survival always comes first. Colonization and migration is not a new concept, humans have been doing it for literally eons...but we are fresh out of 'undiscovered' land. our external growth is necessary before our inner growth can be explored. How much are we growing while we are dead? ...I don't know, does anyone? I mean other than what growth springs up from the compost we provide.

If you are saying you wouldn't alter another planet because it was meant to be uninhabitable, then I have a question: What are cherry blossoms doing in Washington DC? they aren't indigenous, they were transplanted from half way around the world. Ironicly, United States probably has more Cherry blossoms than Japan now. eventually, maybe people from Japan will visit the US to see what real Sakura Bana look like. In a direct way, the transplanting has increased it's chance of survival.

Are having cherry blossoms growing on Mars any different?

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#198029 - 10/31/05 03:20 PM Re: Cherry blossoms on Mars. [Re: Kintama]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
So, if continued expansion and migration keeps bringing the species to a another point of self-destruction (yeast in a bottle)...won't planting Cherry trees on Mars eventually result in the contamination of the planet? The lovely trees of D.C....and the ghettos and privation just beyond.

A fundamental change in the species needs to occur...or no matter where we go we will eventually end up in the same place. And since I can't seem to fix the entire species, I will elect to work on myself. That is, until the food runs out.


Edited by harlan (10/31/05 03:22 PM)

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#198030 - 10/31/05 03:24 PM Re: Cherry blossoms on Mars. [Re: Kintama]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
another thought about how external perception translates into survival.
Imagine two ways to perceive a threat to your existence:
1. Keep perceptions away from the possible threat and pray nothing bad happens. If something bad does happen, it was 'inevitable'.
or
2. Use all of your perception, including technology, and struggle to avoid the worst case. If something bad happens, learn from it and try something else.

If anyone here says door #1, then I'd wonder why they were even interested in Martial Arts.

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#198031 - 10/31/05 03:51 PM Re: Cherry blossoms on Mars. [Re: harlan]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Quote:

A fundamental change in the species needs to occur...or no matter where we go we will eventually end up in the same place. And since I can't seem to fix the entire species, I will elect to work on myself. That is, until the food runs out.



I agree, except my hope is that the fundamental change (deep inner reflection) you are talking about will come with the realization of what we have done to the world we leave behind. We learn lessons the hard way - only after abondoning ship do the 16th century sailors realize the dangers of smoking in bed.

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