FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 32 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
ksusanc, kellypnik123, leyinn, Ron_Cooley, businns
22902 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 12
cxt 7
trevek 6
JKogas 5
futsaowingchun 4
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
Today at 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/11/14 03:36 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
10 San Sik drills-Wing Chun's foundation
by futsaowingchun
06/30/14 11:20 AM
"Ip Man" and "Ip Man 2" the movies.
by TaekwonDoFan
06/30/14 11:02 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
12/30/13 08:32 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Prizewriter
04/16/12 02:48 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
04/12/12 11:16 AM
Recent Posts
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Prizewriter
43 minutes 54 seconds ago
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
Today at 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
Today at 08:53 AM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by cxt
07/24/14 11:35 AM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/14/14 04:50 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:35 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
07/09/14 06:13 AM
Throwing
by JKogas
07/03/14 07:40 PM
10 San Sik drills-Wing Chun's foundation
by futsaowingchun
06/30/14 11:20 AM
"Ip Man" and "Ip Man 2" the movies.
by TaekwonDoFan
06/30/14 11:02 AM
Forum Stats
22902 Members
36 Forums
35564 Topics
432453 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#198013 - 10/28/05 09:57 AM Re: perception is reality? [Re: Kintama]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
I do not remember the author But here is one related quote.

"Hot or cold, it is you that feels it".

Top
#198014 - 10/28/05 10:09 AM Re: perception is reality? [Re: Kintama]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Whose version of reality?

Top
#198015 - 10/28/05 11:42 AM Re: perception is reality? [Re: butterfly]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

Hey, if I see a green color, can I even be sure that this is the same green that others see? Perception. What if your color blind?





I am red-green colorblind. My reality is differnt from others, but is my reality is not the "true" reality?

I am only partially colorblind, but ingeneral, this is how I see.

http://www.vischeck.com/examples/
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

Top
#198016 - 10/28/05 12:06 PM Re: perception is reality? [Re: JoelM]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Quote:

"Hot or cold, it is you that feels it".



would the reality of it being 'hot' or 'cold' change if the sense of feeling was lost?

reguardless of how (don't want to get into that debate), all of our senses are there...I think we can all agree that they are there to serve a function - survival. there is the bias in the senses. our eyes reflect light into our brain a particular way, our brain proceses the images in another way. why is seeing color important to survival? lets just say, I wouldn't eat a pie where the berries were hand-picked by Joel.

does 'enlightenment' remove the filters and let us see reality for what it is...ala the Matrix?

Top
#198017 - 10/28/05 03:06 PM Dogen on perception [Re: Kintama]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
"Usually, the traditional 8th century Zen statement "The pictured cakes do not satisfy hunger" signifies something fantasized and unreal that cannot fill the stomach. But Dogen sees it differently, in a way that touches on the work of a computer. A process similar to what Dogen called ‘Dream-making within dreams' (musa-muchu).

Dogen: "The people think that such a view [‘The pictured cakes do not satisfy hunger’] tries to say that an unreal thing is really useless, but this is a grave mistake… What we now understand as the pictured cakes are all the paste cakes, vegetable cakes, cheese cakes, toasted cakes, nutritious cakes, and so on – and all are realized out of the pictured cakes. You should note that picture is nondual, cake is nondual, Dharma is nondual. For this reason, all the cakes that are now realized are the pictured cakes as a whole…

As you try to paint a landscape, you use paints, strange cliffs and grotesque boulders, the seven rare gems, and the four treasures [a brush, ink, paper, and an ink-stone]. The manner employed to draw cakes is also like this… Examine carefully the pictured Buddha and the pictured cakes. You should understand thoroughly which is a guardian lion, which is an iron staff, which is form, which is mind. [All are nothing but pictures.] Thus viewed, birth-and-death and coming-and-going are pictures without exception. Supreme enlightenment is nothing but a picture. As a rule, the phenomenal world and the empty sky – there is nothing that is not a picture… If you say that a picture is not real, all things are not real. If all things are not real, Dharma is not real either. If Dharma is real, the pictured cakes should be real."

Top
#198018 - 10/28/05 03:52 PM Re: Dogen on perception [Re: harlan]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
hmmmm...I usually like Dogen - in this case it sounds like circular reasoning. The arraingement of paint in the shape of what we SEE as food, doesn't change the reality that we can't survive by eating canvas.

We have to draw the line somewhere...I draw the line with life/death realities. If our current perceptions function as tools for survival....then over time, as human's lives become 'safer' (we don't have to worry daily about being eaten by animals anymore do we) ...our perception over generations and eons will be affected by more abstract and expanded thinking.
If we think of it in Universal terms, an alien race with double the amount of senses will have a much better grasp on 'reality' ...wouldn't they? The one with the right/best senses for survival wins?

Top
#198019 - 10/31/05 12:24 PM Re: Dogen on perception [Re: Kintama]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Just more questions: what is to be 'won' through 'grasping'? What is the nature of thought? And how does the attachment to intellect in any way preclude the inevitable?

"Good and bad, happy and sad,
all thoughts vanish into emptiness
like the imprint of a bird in the sky "

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche,
The Sadhana of Mahamudra


Quote:

If we think of it in Universal terms, an alien race with double the amount of senses will have a much better grasp on 'reality' ...wouldn't they? The one with the right/best senses for survival wins?



Top
#198020 - 10/31/05 01:42 PM Re: Dogen on perception [Re: harlan]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
an Asteroid tumbling towards Earth cannot be seen with the naked eye until it is too late. by extending our perception (telescope & radio) and grasping it's importance to do so, the thing to be gained is survival. It seems worth it to try and change the seemingly inevitable.

It's also inevitable that as we eventually deplete the planet of resources while continuing exponential population growth, tensions between people will grow accordingly. Along this course, wars are inevitable.
If our collective perception is allowed to honestly look at Human history and it's self-destructive nature when put under pressure, we'd start putting more money into terra-forming Mars to a habitable planet. Right now, all of the Mars projects world-wide total research investment each year is less than what oil company profits are each quarter.

Some things seem inevitable now, only because we haven't allowed ourselves to perceive them otherwise.
Just a thought.

Top
#198021 - 10/31/05 01:54 PM Re: Dogen on perception [Re: Kintama]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
So, if human nature is inherently self-destructive, how will an expanded perception of external reality 'fix' that? If we carry the seeds of our own destruction...then terra-forming Mars will result in the continuation of the species...as well as reinforcing the same negative behaviour.

"Fixing mars' for human habitation is about as useful as 'fixing dogs' that aren't broke.


Edited by harlan (10/31/05 01:56 PM)

Top
#198022 - 10/31/05 02:12 PM Re: Dogen on perception [Re: harlan]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
So....let everybody die off here and survival of the fittest?

'Fixing' animals has proven to be beneficial from a psychological(as it would be best for human companionship) and medical perspective.

Arguing semantics...they're not 'fixed' because they're broken, it's just a choice of words.

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga