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#195232 - 10/24/05 01:38 AM Re: Can a Pattern be called a Kata? [Re: RobMcIntyre]
Isshinryukid4life Offline
Professional Injury causer

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 2455
Loc: Knoxville.

Can an recent aussie/western creation be called a Kata?
[qoute] [/qoute]


#195233 - 11/03/05 07:17 PM Re: Can a Pattern be called a Kata? [Re: Isshinryukid4life]
Malachi Offline

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Seattle, Washington

Can an recent aussie/western creation be called a Kata?


technically true. I agree with you in that. My system is primarily technique based, and part of their advancement requirements is to develop their own Forms to practice with, but we never refer to them as Kata. We also dont' call the knifehand chop a shuto, though I have used the reference term before (It's probably identical in many respects to the shuto in traditional systems.)

I feel that its not a significant factor - is the point getting across? that's the point. We use american terms because we are an american eclectic system. However, at more advanced levels we use certain terms to communicate an idea or ideal, primarily because of their mythical presence. and when I say mythical, I refer to an intrinsic truth that cannot be easily expressed in words.

Like the relationship between sensei and Karateka. sensei loosely means "teacher" Or "one who has gone before" in english, but compare the sensei/karateka relationship to what we see in modern public schools and their is a big difference. So we use those terms to give our students insight that there is something different and important in the context of what we are saying.

#195234 - 11/03/05 08:56 PM Can a Pattern be called a Kata? [Re: RobMcIntyre]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3119
Loc: East Coast, United States

Excellent first post, question we hope you will do more!!!

Any pattern CAN be called anything you wish. In precisely the identical manner which TRADITIONAL can be. If I do a thing and you copy it, we have just created technically a "tradition"....

Just because they CALL it kata, does not make it so.

Kata IMHV is a SUBTLE, nuanced thing which can be explored for a lifetime, examined and still truly not find all the "gems". Kata contain principles, and the precise mechanics of those ideas, concepts. Does this elbow form contain any of those aspects? Could you practice that form alone for the rest of you life and be content figuring out its whispers???

Unlikely I suspect...therefore doubtful it is a kata....

It is merely my opinion, I could surely be mistaken,

#195235 - 11/04/05 12:16 AM Re: Can a Pattern be called a Kata? [Re: Malachi]
Mark Hill Offline

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
If I can't create a kata, even in twenty or thrity years time, what about Nakasone's Rinkan, or Shimbakuro's Su Nu Su?

Maybe they were confused too?

#195236 - 11/04/05 07:16 PM Re: Can a Pattern be called a Kata? [Re: Mark Hill]
dogfacedboyuk1 Offline

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 116
Anyone skilled can create a kata. All it needs to be is practiced regularly (otherwise its not really a kata) and contain valid fighting techniques/principles.

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