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#195200 - 10/19/05 11:03 PM krav against other MA's
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
there seem to be a lot of krav techniques that would work well against the average street thug who is only interested in robbing or killing you. but has anyone noticed that putting these techniques to work against almost any highly experienced practitioner of a different MA often put you in more danger? i am currently working on tightening my guard when entangling and counter attacking using krav techniques because i noticed when at opponents in cqc situations, if you aren't VERY fast you can very well get nailed in exposed regions of your body. my kali instructor has been kind enough to demonstrate this on me every wednesday when i'm locked in his chokes etc.
example - after some knife manuevering, he got behind me and put me in a choke (one arm around my neck locked in by the other wrapped around my head). i immediately delivered a couple elbows to his guts and guess what? it just p1$$ed him off so he fell back, bringing me into the scariest neck-breaker i've ever been in. i'm sorry i don't know the technical terms for all this stuff.
anyway, i love krav but wish it would be taught in a way more conducive to fighting people who know what they're doing. are any of the other systems (FIGHT, haganah, whateva) more geared toward this? the saving grace of what krav is missing for me is that i feel comfortable bringing in techniques from the other MA's i study - but those don't fly in set drills. i feel bad about questioning what i'm being taught, but i want to be prepared for anything and be GOOD at it. i guess i'm at the level where the honeymoon is over and i get frustrated when something doesn't work.

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#195201 - 10/19/05 11:47 PM Re: krav against other MA's [Re: ShikataGaNai]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
SD will frequently be geared toward common, almost generic street type attacks. To counter a specific MA or MMA type attack, you will need to be very familiar with it (train it, train it some more, train it under pressure) and understand that the attacker likely has alot more where that came from. Programmed responses (KM or any other) to a headlock or Frankenstein Choke will not be nearly as effective against a trained attacker who has successfully choked out a hundred resisting opponents in training.
_________________________
www.brazilianjiujitsunaples.com

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#195202 - 10/20/05 01:03 AM Re: krav against other MA's [Re: ShikataGaNai]
umsangil Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 83
keep training hard in your techniques. its good that you realized sometimes your techniques dont do well against other trained MA's. its part of ur martial arts experience, just use what works and discard/modify what doesnt. another thing that helps is to keep training/sparring with friends/people you meet who train in different styles. you also might be able to talk to your instructor about your problem and see what kind of solutions they offer you. dont lose faith, keep training hard.

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#195203 - 10/20/05 11:13 AM Re: krav against other MA's [Re: umsangil]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
thanks! i just started an MMA seminar, and that seems to be helping in huge ways!

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#195204 - 10/20/05 04:46 PM Re: krav against other MA's [Re: ShikataGaNai]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
I take MMA seminars when I have time, as well as seminars in other forms. I watch the adult TKD class before mine as well and keep a keen eye on their techniques. I have done fight sparing against some of the TKD students.
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

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#195205 - 10/20/05 06:12 PM Re: krav against other MA's [Re: RangerG]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
a few thoughts on this

1. krav was origionally designed to provide fast and simple training to healthy people to get them ready to fight well, in a short time. is was not designed to be elaborate, and probrably nobody invisioned it being used to fight very well trained people H2H. I firmly believe that if you take two healthy 18 year olds with no formal training, and train one in krav and one in TKD or some other good style, from one week to 6 months, or maybe longer, the krav student will have the edge. after a certain point, the practitioner of the traditional martial art will have a more extensive arsinal, and will most probrably have an edge.

2. krav usually is tought "harder" than a lot of martial arts. the philosophy is much harder. a good krav student, if faced with a good kung fu student, should pick up a chair or a handful of sand or some other weapon to gain an edge.

3. a lot of traditional martial arts students (and yes, not all, not all) do not learn to use strenght and agression. I work out with a lot of kung fu blackbelts who can kick beutifully, and do great forms, and have great stances - but I can tear them new a**hole because they can't put any force into their kicks or punches.

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#195206 - 10/21/05 02:14 PM Re: krav against other MA's [Re: globetrotter]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
i hear you on the hard training. i too believe actually getting punched, kicked and chopped benefits me as a fighter and i appreciate this approach to learning. this issue has honestly been bugging me because of escalation on the street -
i do not hang out with criminals, but i do have a handful of acquaintances who know or are in local crews. a guy i know was beaten with in an inch of his life last week and the story i got was that he was jumped by three teenagers who obviously were proficient in judo. this is alarming. i've heard testimony from several other people confirming that this is happening more and more. one thug trains at a gym, then teaches all his cronies what he knows. this is a major reason i started taking kali. it has all the componenets of arts like wushu, with circular defenses that lead to counter attacks etc. and a great grappling side to it. but most importantly kali makes you tough as nails and boosts your awareness (much like krav) of how to deal with more situations with a few basic end results. not to mention getting swung at with sticks keeps you on your toes...
i would really be interested in what kinds of arts others are taking to supplement or expand on krav maga. what kinds of combos from other arts do people work into it? what about weapons?
i tend to keep an eye out for any object on the street or in a bar or wherever that could make a formidable weapon, just in case. do most krav practitioners do this? well, i guess globetrotter already answered that one!
anyone else?

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#195207 - 10/22/05 10:14 AM Re: krav against other MA's [Re: ShikataGaNai]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
Right or wrong...I would march into that dojo and have a word with the master about the fact one of his students is in a "crew" and is teaching skills to other "crew" members, and that they use these skills to attack others. I would not stand for that, and I suspect the master or instructor would not either.

That's just me. I would try and break the cycle. As far as I am concerned, all MA's are honorable, and anyone using them for evil should be called on it.

Sorry for the rant...
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

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#195208 - 10/22/05 11:06 AM Re: krav against other MA's [Re: RangerG]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:

Right or wrong...I would march into that dojo and have a word with the master about the fact one of his students is in a "crew" and is teaching skills to other "crew" members, and that they use these skills to attack others. I would not stand for that, and I suspect the master or instructor would not either.

That's just me. I would try and break the cycle. As far as I am concerned, all MA's are honorable, and anyone using them for evil should be called on it.

Sorry for the rant...




+1
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#195209 - 10/22/05 12:48 PM Re: krav against other MA's [Re: SANCHIN31]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
i hear you on that! i just wish the rest of the world did. i at least have the peace of mind knowing there are no thugs in my school, and they wouldn't be tolerated if there were.

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