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#194848 - 10/18/05 04:03 AM Knockout pressure point squeeze
sgt_anthony Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 1
Hello martial arts enthusiasts,

Is there a 'squeeze' or 'tiger claw' or 'pinch' etc. technique that can be used to render an opponent unconscious using pressure points? This doesn't have to turn into a discussion about stomach 9 etc. Any technique that achieves this should be mentioned.

Now don't assume I'm one of the denihilists - I know that pressure points exist, however I am particularly skeptical of one move I continue to hear people rave about on forums. Certain people seem to believe they can knock people unconscious without striking them with a knife hand, or punch etc. Yes, I am well aware this can be achieved through the use of a choke such as the "sleeper hold" by that I am referring to rear naked chokes and the like. But these 'experts' seem to believe that they can "squeeze...hold and twist...tiger claw grab...pinch..." etc. to cause a non-fatal (ideally) knockout. I was disturbed when I heard this and did some research. A fellow by the name of Master Erle Montaigue featured an interesting article that did seem to confirm this.

"E. What about the 'just touching' the area to cause knock out can that be done and why.

PL Any doctor can do that to the carotid sinus to cause knock out with just a finger touch."

http://www.taijiworld.com/Articles/george.htm


I come from a very blunt school of hand to hand defensive tactics - whatever works inside the law, goes. Obviously in my profession we did not enjoy the 'tear off ear' freedom of military special operations units such as NZSAS but we were still very to the point. Is there a possible and reliable technique that does this no bs?


My name is A. Tamati - thanks for your input

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#194849 - 10/18/05 05:55 AM Re: Knockout pressure point squeeze [Re: sgt_anthony]
ZoneD Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/13/05
Posts: 10
Sir,

Yes, there are, actually several possibilities, one way to achieve it is using M-HN-18 (tcm) or mental nerve (mwm) on the jaw. (mental nerve, comes from mandibular division of the trigeminal nerve(V3)).
“sleeper hold” can also be done by several different ways, and doing it relatively safely.

If knockout technique is applied slightly ‘wrong’, side-effects (nausea, dizziness, pain, vomiting, can occur), but in the case of correctly applied knockout technique is safe – because, (actually knockout is wrong term in here), we should say - to put person fast to sleep (no its easier way to say is KO) That way its safe – like natural sleep.

Yes, correct stimulus (pressure) to carotic sinus (the place where baroreceptors are, these receptors monitor the blood pressure and level of oxygen in blood) can cause knockout, but that it can also cause severe traumas to opponent by changing blood pressure quickly – this can lead to arrhythmia to heart. As a side note, but affecting to ones blood pressure and causing KO by that, causes KO where opponent wakes up usually before even dropping to floor – or right after that. This happens because then body itself knows that blood pressure is normal and ok. But if I use just two fingers to put someone out, and doing it with out carotic stimulus, the person will not wakeup before he’s correctly restored.

I did not follow nor read the link you posted, but I think that this gives some answers to it too…

This is my 0.00000001 cent worth...

BTW - At my website, in training/videoclips/ are videoclip number 9 - its not a grabling KO, but only one technique was delivered, and NO carotic sinus nor ST-9 was used.
_________________________
Yours in the Arts, Toni Kauhanen www.KYUSHOAIKIJUTSU.com

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#194850 - 10/18/05 06:06 AM Re: Knockout pressure point squeeze [Re: ZoneD]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

BTW - At my website, in training/videoclips/ are videoclip number 9 - its not a grabling KO, but only one technique was delivered, and NO carotic sinus nor ST-9 was used.




That's a lovely K.O Toni! Looks like it could be a lovely pre-emptive shot. Cool!

Gav
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#194851 - 10/18/05 08:07 AM Re: Knockout pressure point squeeze [Re: Gavin]
ZoneD Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/13/05
Posts: 10
Gavin,

pre-emptive means what? My dictionary didn't know that...
_________________________
Yours in the Arts, Toni Kauhanen www.KYUSHOAIKIJUTSU.com

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#194852 - 10/18/05 10:02 AM Re: Knockout pressure point squeeze [Re: ZoneD]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Toni,

A pre-emptive strike is one where we take control of a conflict /fight and strike first. Basically, hit them before they hit you.

Gav
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#194853 - 10/18/05 11:37 AM Re: Knockout pressure point squeeze [Re: Gavin]
ZoneD Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/13/05
Posts: 10
Thanks - I was almost right..

Yes I believe that could be quite good on that purpose.
_________________________
Yours in the Arts, Toni Kauhanen www.KYUSHOAIKIJUTSU.com

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#194854 - 10/18/05 01:31 PM Re: Knockout pressure point squeeze [Re: ZoneD]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
Hits to certain areas on the side of the neck, back of the neck and temple will cause an immediate KO if delivered with a first strike.

Pressure points to those areas are remarkably inneffective if a person knows they are going to be hit, though hits to the back of the neck/skull and temple are still somewhat effective .

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#194855 - 10/22/05 10:27 PM Re: Knockout pressure point squeeze [Re: paradoxbox]
h2whoa Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Fiji
I do not believe that their is a way to knock someone out by touch or non touch, unless you are Mr Spock or a Televangelist. I do however believe that a well struck blow to a pressure point (this takes years to perfect), can be a devestating weapon!!
_________________________
No matter how fashionable it is on Krypton, I will not wear my underwear on the outside of my Gi!!

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#194856 - 10/21/07 08:48 PM Re: Knockout pressure point squeeze [Re: Gavin]
robo313 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 1
Quote:

Quote:

BTW - At my website, in training/videoclips/ are videoclip number 9 - its not a grabling KO, but only one technique was delivered, and NO carotic sinus nor ST-9 was used.




on one hand this is awesome and i really want to try it on my friends!...on the other hhand i dont want 2 cause something damaging...so i want anb honest opinion on what i should do. plz help!

That's a lovely K.O Toni! Looks like it could be a lovely pre-emptive shot. Cool!

Gav



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#194857 - 10/22/07 01:16 AM Re: Knockout pressure point squeeze [Re: robo313]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Do not try this on your friends.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#194858 - 07/01/08 08:01 PM Re: Knockout pressure point squeeze [Re: sgt_anthony]
whitetigerschool Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 15
Hey, I'm an old Dillmanite from way back and, while I parted ways with the organization long ago, I will atest that I have both performed and received the St9 knockout. It works. With that said, yes their are certain squeeze/pinch techniques which can be performed, though I have never tried to learn those particular knockouts, because I see little if any practical use for them. A good friend of mine, also a former Dillmanite, is also an accupuncturist and does a knockout on the ear accupuncture points with a simple squeeze. He says that one causes a loss of ballance, another breaks the equilibrium of the inner ear and prevents it from realigning (so long as the pressure is held) and the third actually pinches a cranial nerve and causes momentary shock in the body. The three cause the guy to drop and the lights go out for a second. I am also told that there is a method of squeezing certain of the Chinese pulses for a similar effect. Finaally, I once saw a dactor who was one of Dillman's students squeeze a serious of points around each pecktoral of his uke, the kidney terminal points on the outside and something associated to the liver meridian on the underside to cause a knockout.

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#194859 - 07/25/08 03:47 AM Re: Knockout pressure point squeeze [Re: sgt_anthony]
Yudansha34 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Michigan
I am not a pressure point expert. My background is in Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu.

One bunkai taught to me in the Itosu no Passai kata is a open hand throat grab. Using pressure with the thumb and pointer finger on opposite sides of the neck (squeezing inward), to illicite a sleeper hold type knockout.

I never practiced this in the dojo to completion. Which is to say I didnt go around choking students or friends to validate if the technique worked. Though the mechanics of cutting off the blood supply is plausible.

I did use this technique once in a bar altercation. I swept the mans hands with my left and applied to neck squeeze with my right hand. I then backed him onto the wall and held firm pressure as he attempted to free his hands and remove my grip. Within seconds his eyes fluttered and he went limp. I released the grip he fell unconsious to the floor face first causing small tissue damage (bloody lip, bruising).

The whole event was over very quickly maybe 5-8 seconds. Some friends who witnessed the altercation said it looked like a "spock pinch". I have never executed the technique prior or since this time. So I really have no idea if it was the loss of blood, the fact he was drinking, a fear/panic synapse, or some combination that caused him to pass out. It should be noted it was not my intent to knock him out with this technique. Once at the wall I intended to follow with striking and a control. He just went out before I got to that.

So for me a technique like this did work once. Maybe not as mystical or magical as some other techniques. But its the only one I have personally executed. And after all that it may have been a fluke where the guy passes out easily. Who knows...

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#194860 - 07/25/08 12:01 PM Re: Knockout pressure point squeeze [Re: Yudansha34]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Aqwesome. Thanks.

I am familiar with the technique from (we call it Bassai Dai). I can visualize the pressure points for this application. I don't choke people out for practice. We would "practice" this technique with no more than touch pressure to assure quick and accurate PP location and building some proprioception to that it could be accessed under pressure. It is one of those things where you wonder if you could make it work "for real" if you HAD to. It solved your self defense problem and did less damage than a follow up strike might have done. Well done. That is why we study this stuff.
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

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