FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 58 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Shanktotheright, royal, bobgalle100011, agenonline, TooNice
22862 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
THEFOREVERMAN 3
MattJ 2
royal 2
Dobbersky 2
Marcus Charles 1
April
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30
New Topics
Judo Olympic Games 1964 Tokyo, The Video Gallery
by ergees
04/01/14 05:26 AM
Muay Thai Seminar with Greg Nelson - Marcus Charle
by Marcus Charles
03/24/14 04:39 PM
Fighting On Saturday!!!
by Dobbersky
03/20/14 05:45 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
AKK kata question
by
09/04/05 01:27 PM
Recent Posts
Fighting On Saturday!!!
by THEFOREVERMAN
04/16/14 08:22 AM
Muay Thai Seminar with Greg Nelson - Marcus Charle
by THEFOREVERMAN
04/16/14 08:20 AM
AKK kata question
by MattJ
04/04/14 05:45 PM
Judo Olympic Games 1964 Tokyo, The Video Gallery
by ergees
04/01/14 05:26 AM
Forum Stats
22862 Members
36 Forums
35546 Topics
432378 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#193840 - 10/13/05 05:13 PM Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD?
foreverrocker Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 55
I was looking into exploring other arts, as is the JKD way. I was wondering if any JKD minded people have tried it out. I have been thinking of the Stephen Hayes To-Shin Do.

Any experiance with any of the styles?

Top
#193841 - 10/13/05 07:53 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD? [Re: foreverrocker]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
No....JKD is about the pursuit of TRUTH in combat...



-John

Top
#193842 - 10/13/05 08:13 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD? [Re: foreverrocker]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
I was very into Togakure-ryu Ninjutsu many years ago. I read all the books by Hayes, Hatsumi, Bussey, etc. It is interesting to note the similarity of mindset between those Ninjutsu styles and Jeet Kune Do.

But I never formally studied Ninjutsu. I would say that anytime you find anything good from any other style, that is JKD.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#193843 - 10/14/05 08:43 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD? [Re: JKogas]
foreverrocker Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 55
Truth?, sure, I guess.

To me JKD is a giant tree with many branches. My "tree" has about 5 different arts involved at this time. Of course it is great to be able to take what is useful from any art, but that is not a easy task. If I train with Hayes or whomever, I do not think they will teach me the useful (truth?) of his art right off. I will need to go through the motions. I would like to add some of the Japanese arts to my "tree"...and to climb trees with those hand claws

Top
#193844 - 10/14/05 01:42 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
Fluid_Motion Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 37
Bruce was about skill, the root, not the decorative branches of combat. When it goes down, which of those five arts are you going to choose, and out of those five, which have you honed the most so that when it does indeed go down, you respond properly. JKD is about Daily Decrease, not Increase. How are you going to get your punch down if you keep adding and adding?
_________________________
Repititio est mater studiorum.

Top
#193845 - 10/14/05 05:04 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD? [Re: foreverrocker]
ShaolinNinja Offline
hates silicone bubishi

Registered: 10/09/05
Posts: 301
Loc: Ireland
I am currently studying both ninjutsu (budo taijutsu, that is) and Shaolin kung fu (wuzuquan and wuqiquan). I don't know jeet kune do firsthand, so not all of this may be relevant, but I can offer some impressions of the combination of ninjutsu and kung fu.
(I'm new to this board and I don't know what the general attitude to ninjutsu here is; I notice it's not given a discussion forum. I hope there aren't people here who dismiss it as soulless or vicious - an attitude I have encountered in martial artists before.)

If you study ninjutsu, you will learn hundreds of techniques; I typically learn six or seven new techniques per class. One of the advantages of ninjutsu is that it covers every form of combat: boxing, kicking, stand-up throwing, grappling etc. Kung fu, on the other hand, would seem to have a slower pace of learning. This is because the focus is not so much on learning a large number of techniques, but on getting the basics right, on developing focus and proper delivery. The subtleties of kinetics learned from kung fu will add to ninjutsu. To put it crudely, ninjutsu provides me with the raw techniques which my kung fu training allows me to perfect them further. For example, in ninjutsu I'm taught to punch with the fist vertical, while stepping through, with the wrist and forearm aligned and the knuckles clenched at the moment before impact. All this is good advice and helps the power of the punch, but not to the refined extent of the kung fu training - relaxing the arm and shoulder, flexing the abdomen, turning the hips forward. Using the kung fu methods give me an edge when performing techniques in ninjutsu.

The physical conditioning of kung fu is superb for improving flexibility and strength. Obviously, this physical improvement will be of benefit in ninjutsu. Flexibility opens up new doors in groundwork, and allows for better kicking. In my experience - and maybe this is just my dojo - ninjutsu alone isn't enough to develop strength, fitness or flexibility without some additional workout.
_________________________
The world's a will to power and nothing besides

Top
#193846 - 10/14/05 06:39 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: Fluid_Motion]
foreverrocker Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 55
huh!? So I need to practice a jab and front kick the rest of my life, limiting my potential? Keep in mind now, Martial arts is more to me then a "what if" in a bar. I can surely handle myself. For me to practice JKD concepts for 15 years and to have someone tell me that to limit myself is to grow/get better...well I have heard it all and that is the worst advice I have ever heard. Stop reading books and watching movies...you need to live it to be it.

<---lover of the Martial way

p.s. thanks ShaolinNinja, it was nice for someone to give me the advice I asked for.

Top
#193847 - 10/15/05 03:34 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
Fluid_Motion Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 37
I'll just leave you with these ideas: JKD is SIMPLE, direct, and non classical; true refinement seeks simplicity; JKD hacks away at the unessentials, ornamentation is only half - way cultivation.
_________________________
Repititio est mater studiorum.

Top
#193848 - 10/15/05 08:24 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
Hey, as the story of the fox and the cat goes, the technique which works and is simplest is the one which can keep you alive.

On Ninjutsu, although i've never practiced it, I would have thought it too had ideas of using what is useful and direct. if you are an assassin you have to do the job quickly and get out without getting drawn into long combat scenarios. I'd imagine it was open to adaptation in a JKD way.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

Top
#193849 - 10/15/05 11:19 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: Fluid_Motion]
foreverrocker Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 55
That I'll agree with. I am by no means a "master" of any style and do not plan to be. I also have fun learning Martial Arts. I am not going to compete in the UFC so honing a skill to that level is pointless..for me. I love the open-ended approach of JKD and "keeping it simple" frame of mind, but, what if I am getting bored? I know how to end a fight in 30 seconds, now what. Do I need to end it in 20, then 10 etc..I am proud to say that Martial Arts have brought me to a level within I could not have reached without it. I remember the days when I thought, wow, I can fight. Then I discoverd all the beauty in the Arts. Why would you just care about the basic "what can it do for me". It is like a canvess with no paint on it.

I will be looking into Ninjutsu further and see if it adds to my being.

Top
#193850 - 10/17/05 03:10 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
There was a ninjustsu guy in UFC 3, I think. I seem to recall he rushed a thai-boxer, got kicked to the floor and elbowed into oblivion.

Not making suggestions, just remembering
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

Top
#193851 - 10/17/05 08:53 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: trevek]
foreverrocker Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 55
I remember that guy, he stunk. What's your point? I have seen JKD people have their asses handed to them, I have seen Thai boxers whipped up on. I have seen every style lose at one time or another. It drives me crazy when we all run to the UFC for the answers...that is not how street fights play out. Street fights are over in minutes and with all the locks and holds Ninjutsu has, I can avoid really hurting someone. Please try not to find weakness in something that you do not know anything about.

It is hard for people to answer my simple question on this topic...if you have nothing to add but your vacuous opinion of Ninjutsu, I would prefer not to hear it. thanks

Top
#193852 - 10/17/05 11:59 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
This is just a general comment not to anyone in specfic.

Ninjutsu has all the ranges of fighting in it, just like JKD, it has long range weapon into grappling. But Ninjutsu was never to be just a street fighting art. Its strength was in espinoage and stealth I could see one aiding the others but they have two different frames of mind. One seeks total freedom of expression through moment/technqiues the other seek to vavage and complete a mission by any means and at all cost.

You could add or take form either and strengthen your skills, but to what end I'm not sure. One is a bit arcaid by modern standards. Truth be told IMHO.


Edited by Neko456 (10/17/05 12:02 PM)
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#193853 - 10/17/05 12:47 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: Neko456]
foreverrocker Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 55
I agree that traditional Ninjutsu is out-dated, however Stephen Hayes has a system in which he morphed the things he knew into a practical system. Kinda, sorta like what Bruce did.

It seems people are soo wrapped up with fighting. Most of us learning the Arts, will never ever use them for defense. So why do we learn it?. Why waste our time?. For me the Martial Arts are fasinating and add soo much more then a punch or a kick. So would learning even traditional Ninjutsu or the many forms of Kung Fu be a waste of time? That's silly, of course not. Maybe after some of you have been in Martial Arts for awhile you can see the big color picture. Not the 13inch b&w picture you see now. Free your mind.

Top
#193854 - 10/18/05 07:00 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Guys - the whole notion of SYSTEMS THEMSELVES are outdated.

Forget about learning more styles and adding MORE in the mix. More isn't better. It isn't about how many "moves" you know, its about how well you can FIGHT with the one's you already know. The less you have to practice, the more time you have to master those things.

JKD is about hitting, kicking, clinching and fighting on the ground. Those areas aren't exclusive to one particular style or system. So in that sense, just learn to hit, kick, clinch and fight on the ground. Don't spend so much time worrying about adding "Ninjitsu" or any other art. Just focus on the tools and you'll get where you're wanting to go a lot quicker.


-John

Top
#193855 - 10/18/05 08:29 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: JKogas]
foreverrocker Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 55
arrrgh... I give up with you guys. No one is reading what I am typing. After 15 years of working with JKD I think I have a little teeny-tiny bit of knowledge of what it is based on. It is a shame that everyone is stuck on what Bruce's words were at that time. It is like the bible, everyone has their own way of reading it.

Do you think Bruce would never have looked at anything else? never add a new move? My God, the man kept striving. He would never just leave it alone.

Closemindedness is not the JKD way. Just a tip.

Top
#193856 - 10/18/05 10:55 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
Woah, no offence. I just remmber the guy getting hammered. I remember a lot of people getting hammered. No, it was just the comment about not wanting to do UFC... thought I'd make a witty quip but it wasn't meant to be offensive (I can see how it would have been)

My brother in law did Ninjutsu, so I have no negative/vacuous thoughts (or he'd hammer me).
Sorry it sounded that way

(grovel, grovel... can I sleep with my windows open tonight without fear of flying shurikens?)
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

Top
#193857 - 10/18/05 01:04 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I agree but if you have a idea or format that covers most or all of the ranges I see your point why keep adding if its not a big benifit. Keep explorering what is usable and what is not to you. I think u need to test it to see it really flows with what you got.

On the otehr hand if you just got stand up or grappling you may need something to fill the voids, I still know people who can grapple with the best of them or strike with best but can't respond when the range/flow changes they still want to try to standup or push away or hang with a takedown when their in striking range usually reaching and getting caught. So they need someone or something to make them whole or flow ninjitsu could or might be that something?

The thing is flow don't practice various different arts and can only doing them 1 at a time. Sounds irrational for thoses that flow JKD,Gung-fu,Silat, Kaila, Ninjitsu guys but for some Western & Eastern arts its not thats simple. It still need tape between creases.
_________________________
DBAckerson

Top
#193858 - 10/18/05 01:47 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: trevek]
foreverrocker Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 55
Everything is good trevek. I shall call back my ninja posse.

I just get irritated with people needing to explain JKD to me. I was just looking at what else is out there.

Top
#193859 - 10/18/05 02:00 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: JKogas]
foreverrocker Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 55
"JKD is about hitting, kicking, clinching and fighting on the ground. Those areas aren't exclusive to one particular style or system. So in that sense, just learn to hit, kick, clinch and fight on the ground. Don't spend so much time worrying about adding "Ninjitsu" or any other art. Just focus on the tools and you'll get where you're wanting to go a lot quicker."

I would now like you to tell me where you think I am going. And, who is in a hurry? I want to incorporate some new things just for myself, just for fun, for the heck of it. Now please stop with all the single mindedness. I just wanted to hear from people who may have studied the art.

Top
#193860 - 10/19/05 02:03 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
I'd say it isn't a case of learning a whole art, it is a case of experiencing it to see if there are different approaches which might be less predominant than your other experiences.

For instance, I took a guy to a WTF TKD session once. He'd trained a bit in ninjutsu in LA (I think). The guys at the club asked him about blocking, how would he do it? He was puzzled as his school hadn't worked on blocks as blocks but as counter strikes. The TKD guys could get this idea immediately.

Like I said in my own earlier post, there's probably a lot of techniques and ideas in ninjutsu which are very practical and would fit well into a JKD syllabus based on the idea of practicality surrounding Ninjutsu.

If nothing else, the boots look cool
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

Top
#193861 - 10/19/05 07:02 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
foreverrocker wrote:
Quote:

I would now like you to tell me where you think I am going. And, who is in a hurry? I want to incorporate some new things just for myself, just for fun, for the heck of it. Now please stop with all the single mindedness. I just wanted to hear from people who may have studied the art.





Dude, I'm just telling you that learning more "styles" isn't what JKD is about. I don't really have a stake in what you do or DON'T do. If you want to study Ninjitsu, be my guest! I wish you much luck and am only trying to help here and share about 22 years of experience in JKD. You have the right to NOT read anything that I write.


trevek wrote:
Quote:

I'd say it isn't a case of learning a whole art, it is a case of experiencing it to see if there are different approaches which might be less predominant than your other experiences.





That's essentially saying the same thing that I was saying. If you're not learning the "whole art", then aren't you just learning "tools"? Why does learning to kick need to mean, learning the "Ninjitsu kick"? Why can't it simply be "kicking"? (or punching or grappling, etc)


-John

Top
#193862 - 10/20/05 03:19 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: JKogas]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
JKogas, I don't know why you like bashing ninjutsu so much, go try it yourself before you bash it. Ninjutsu and JKD have more in common than you think.

By the way I got to use several aspects of my 'ninjutsu' yesterday and it worked spectacularly. And that's the TRUTH. I defended myself, all my alarm bells were ringing (and I learned what danger signs to look for at a NINJUTSU dojo, ghasp)

Another thing I might add is that a JKD group had a big fight with a bujinkan dojo down in Texas a year or two ago, the JKD guys got whooped hard. The bujinkan guy (Ralph Severe) won the fight without striking the JKD fellow even once, despite the fact that he is HUGE and a very fierce striker. There were video tapes made of that event if you'd like to see them.

The JKD instructor had the same kind of attitude and ideas you have about ninjutsu and issued a challenge. Well he lost the challenge.

This proves that at least if you think ninjutsu offers nothing (despite your obviously false and contorted view of it) at least it can teach you a little bit about maai.

Ninjutsu is just another method of combat, stop dissing it. Especially if your knowledge of it is based on Hayes books and Robert Bussey dvd's, who by the way is considered a 'quack' as far as his ninjutsu abilities are concerned, as well as the so called 'ninjutsu' UFC fighters he trained.

No legitimate ninjutsu practicioners have entered any UFC fight.

And for the last time please start spelling it ninJUTSU, as a basic respect for the Japanese language, thank you.

kanji for jitsu;
http://www.budo-nyumon.homepage.t-online.de/jitsu1.jpg

kanji for jutsu;
http://www.budo-nyumon.homepage.t-online.de/jutsu1.jpg

There is a difference, trust me.

Top
#193863 - 10/20/05 06:09 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: paradoxbox]
HATT0R1_HANZ0 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 9
"No legitimate ninjutsu practicioners have entered any UFC fight" this is the truth... i didnt know he was trained by bussey though...lol

made some good points there...

however,when you said there was a challenge between jkd dojo and a bujinkan dojo you lost me.

there is NO bujinkan registered dojo on the face of this planet that would take part in competition/challenge or whatever...budo is not a sport, its not for gaining a collection of trophies or cash or pride or perfect fight record bla bla bla...

Hatsumi Soke " budo is simply the study of the best ways to kill..."

you also said you could provide videos of this competition as you put it...

can you post them please...?


peace...Bujinkan student

Top
#193864 - 10/20/05 07:26 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: paradoxbox]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

JKogas, I don't know why you like bashing ninjutsu so much, go try it yourself before you bash it. Ninjutsu and JKD have more in common than you think.




Why don’t I like it? Because NINJUTSU SUCKS!!! Because it’s a CRAP program, with CRAP training methods (I mean, come on – SMOKE BOMBS and CLIMBING SPIKES???!!!) and worst of all, all of the “Ninjas” I’VE ever known couldn’t fight themselves out of wet tissue paper. Is that enough?

Of course, that is MY OPINION and you’re welcome to take it or leave it. If you don’t LIKE it, I’d suggest leaving it.

Quote:


By the way I got to use several aspects of my 'ninjutsu' yesterday and it worked spectacularly. And that's the TRUTH. I defended myself, all my alarm bells were ringing (and I learned what danger signs to look for at a NINJUTSU dojo, ghasp)




Good for you. I hope everything went ok for you in highschool (where did it happen, SHOP CLASS? That’s where you nerds usually get beat up….)


Quote:


Another thing I might add is that a JKD group had a big fight with a bujinkan dojo down in Texas a year or two ago, the JKD guys got whooped hard. The bujinkan guy (Ralph Severe) won the fight without striking the JKD fellow even once, despite the fact that he is HUGE and a very fierce striker. There were video tapes made of that event if you'd like to see them.




I’m always interested in watching a fight. Sure, posts links and whatever you have.

Quote:


The JKD instructor had the same kind of attitude and ideas you have about ninjutsu and issued a challenge. Well he lost the challenge.

This proves that at least if you think ninjutsu offers nothing (despite your obviously false and contorted view of it) at least it can teach you a little bit about maai.




I really don’t CARE about maai, lol. Nor do I care about that suck-ass art known as “ninjutsu”. It’s my opinion and YES, I am welcome to it as you’re welcome to your own. If you weren’t so insecure about yourself and ninjutsu (where the guys prowl around in their crappy little black pajamas), you wouldn’t get so perturbed over me issuing my opinion. Besides, I’ve not said one thing (until now) really bashing it, merely giving my opinion regarding JKD. But now, YOU have opened the can bro.

Quote:


No legitimate ninjutsu practitioners have entered any UFC fight.





Why haven’t they?


Quote:


And for the last time please start spelling it ninJUTSU, as a basic respect for the Japanese language, thank you.




Look guy, don’t tell me what to say, how to type, or how to respect the Japanese language. I live I America. I speak English and don’t give one rat’s ass about Japanese language or culture. It’s my personal right to have an opinion and to speak my mind. That is the nature of public forums like this one. All I have been doing is sharing my PERSONAL view about JKD until you opened your punk ass mouth. Deal with it.


Quote:


kanji for jitsu;
http://www.budo-nyumon.homepage.t-online.de/jitsu1.jpg

kanji for jutsu;
http://www.budo-nyumon.homepage.t-online.de/jutsu1.jpg

There is a difference, trust me.




Who CARES!


-John

Top
#193865 - 10/20/05 07:44 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: JKogas]
HATT0R1_HANZ0 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 9
well you really went to work on that guy...lol

im a student of the bujinkan,student of hatsumi soke,the grandmaster of the nine schools of the bujinkan...3 of which are ninpo.

im not here to defend the art or give you cheek or anything...

but... im eager to know why you think its a crap program as you put it,with crap training methods.

also... the reason for no student of the bujinkan competing in events like ufc/pride/vale tudo etc is... as i said in my post b4...

budo is not a sport!... Soke Hatsumi " budo is simply the study of the best ways to kill..."

and when your talking about using metsubishi(smoke bombs etc) and shuko(spikes hooks for climbing)... this is not a part of the teaching in the bujinkan...

proper ninjutsu has not been taught for over twenty years(unless you trained with Stephen K Hayes in 80s)

peace ... bujinkan student

Top
#193866 - 10/20/05 09:31 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: JKogas]
foreverrocker Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 55
JKogas, I don't know what to say to you, I have a word though...pathetic.

I am just interested in new things, thats it. To come on to my post with no knowledge of anything being discussed (see smoke bombs and climbing spikes) and bash the art which in turn is to make me look stupid for having interest in it.


I want you to tell me what gives your words any backing. Please do not say 20 years of JKD training, if so. Find a different teacher, that one sucks.

p.s. JKD is derived from other Martial Arts.

Top
#193867 - 10/20/05 09:56 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
HATT0R1_HANZ0 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 9
foreverRocker...are you or have you been a student in the bujinkan?...

just curious...

also.. a few posts above one guy said nin has a lot in common with jkd...he was not wrong.

for starters... 1.they are not sports,competing for shiney trophies and big egos...2. anything goes...if it works use it!

i could go on forever...

bruce had no knowledge or access to the only teacher in his lifespan(Takamatsu Sensei) so he never had the chance to learn this ancient art... im sure he would have been interested.

i think it would be a good choice to combine jkd with bujinkan taijutsu...if you study bujinkan taijutsu as your first martial art for say five years,get the basics and then study jkd for 5 years,then i think you would have a well rounded ability... i think they go hand in hand more than most arts would go hand in hand with jkd

just a thought...

peace...bujinkan student

Top
#193868 - 10/20/05 10:43 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: JKogas]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
First of all I'm going to state I think you should be banned from these forums for being so ignorant JKogas. I'm not going to say anything more about this on that matter.

>Why don’t I like it? Because NINJUTSU SUCKS!!! Because it’s a CRAP program, with CRAP training methods (I mean, come on – SMOKE BOMBS and CLIMBING SPIKES???!!!) and worst of all, all of the “Ninjas” I’VE ever known couldn’t fight themselves out of wet tissue paper. Is that enough?<

We don't use smoke bombs in dojo training. 'Climbing spikes' are not used for climbing, they're used for catching swords which is a skill practiced in muto dori. You can see a video of that demonstrated here. This is a skill that is part of one of the schools we learn. It is a traditional art, we learn traditional techniques. I'd like to see you put on a pair and catch one. Just because you think the particular skill is useless does not make the art bad or inneffective. If you tried to do this you'd get your fingers chopped off. They're also used for slashing the face and in assisting grappling techniques.

http://www.ninpo.org/ninpotechniques/shuko.html

I would also recommend you take a look at some of the other techniques. They are not demonstrated in free form as to prevent unknowledgeable people from being able to use the techniques without training.

http://www.ninpo.org/Genbukan/ryuha.htm

Based on the horribly innacurate and sweeping generalizations you've made now and in the past, I'm lead to believe you are either outright lying or you have never ever actually met with a ninjutsu practicioner. We do not practice ashida kim, frank dux arts or any of that trash. These are real martial arts with sound techniques.

>Good for you. I hope everything went ok for you in highschool (where did it happen, SHOP CLASS? That’s where you nerds usually get beat up….)<

Actually no, it was in my own home against a robber who tried to come in through the window to rob me. I wound up slicing his arm open with a sword. But thanks for the respect. What have you done recently Mr. Armchair Quarterback?

>I’m always interested in watching a fight. Sure, posts links and whatever you have.<

I don't know of any online clips of that fight. If you'd like a VHS of it why not email Ralph Severe and ask him for one, I'm 100% positive he'll send you a copy probably just for the price of shipping. They recorded all the fights including those between students as well as the 2 instructors themselves. I believe his website is www.artofcombat.com. Send Ralph an email and ask.

>I really don’t CARE about maai<

This is why you would get your @$$ handed to you in a fight by anyone trained in real ninjutsu. Ma ai means distancing and positioning. If you really don't care about these things (and you've been training in JKD all those years) and still have no clue about them, well, I don't know what to say. But good luck to you standing there like a bonehead when someone comes into pound you, remember, you don't care about positioning!

>Why haven’t they?<

Because they don't want to. Most of them have better things to do than look tough, oil themselves up and wrestle with other men in speedos in front of 30,000 people.

>Who CARES!<
You pollute this forum and are not worthy of learning real martial arts. You lack the kind of respect and level headedness a martial artist should possess.

As far as I'm concerned you are an armchair quarterback. Stop lying about your experiences with ninjutsu, you've never come in contact with it in your life.

You absolutely do not deserve to be a moderator here. You consistently break every rule these forums have listed and you do it without regard to any of your fellow posters. This community is better without you here.

Top
#193869 - 10/20/05 11:01 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: paradoxbox]
HATT0R1_HANZ0 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 9
i noticed you posted a genbukan link...

do you study in the genbukan under tanemura san?

Top
#193870 - 10/20/05 11:03 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: HATT0R1_HANZ0]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
I haven't personally trained with Tanemura sensei yet but I do train in the genbukan. I am moving to saitama prefecture (Japan) in a few months to train at the source of the genbukan.

Top
#193871 - 10/20/05 11:19 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: paradoxbox]
HATT0R1_HANZ0 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 9
LMAO.....................


im about to do a very similar thing...

i will soon be moving to japan to live and train...

it will be an honour to train under Hatsumi Soke, ive trained under shihan like pedro fleitas 15th Dan and few other uk shihan but its not the same...

need it from the horses mouth... from Soke himself!

did you train in the bujinkan and then switch or what?

how did you get involved im curious...

would like to hear your opinion on the 3 organisations

peace...bujinkan student

Top
#193872 - 10/20/05 11:23 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: HATT0R1_HANZ0]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Guys, remember that this is a JKD forum. Please take the personal questions to PM, that is what it's for.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#193873 - 10/20/05 11:29 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: MattJ]
HATT0R1_HANZ0 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 9
sorry im new to this board... getting carried away

wont happen again...

Top
#193874 - 10/20/05 02:52 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: HATT0R1_HANZ0]
foreverrocker Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 55
It is nice to hear some real info on this topic. I have not trained under any form of Ninjutsu, but I find it very intriguing. I am not sure if it is for me or not, but I will look into it.

Thanks very much for your input.

Top
#193875 - 10/20/05 06:23 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

JKogas, I don't know what to say to you, I have a word though...pathetic.

I am just interested in new things, thats it.




Great. Fantastic. Wonderful! Knock yourself out. I never told you to not do something you want to do.

Quote:


To come on to my post with no knowledge of anything being discussed (see smoke bombs and climbing spikes) and bash the art which in turn is to make me look stupid for having interest in it.






Was somewhat joking about the smoke bombs and climbing spikes……..

Otherwise, grow some skin.


Quote:


I want you to tell me what gives your words any backing.




Absolutely NOTHING gives my words any backing because this is an INTERNET FORUM. You don’t know me from Adam nor I you. This forum is about nothing other than opinions which is EXACTLY what I gave this thread. You’re welcome to your OWN! You also have the right to NOT read any of the opinions expressed herein.


Quote:


Please do not say 20 years of JKD training, if so. Find a different teacher, that one sucks.





See? That’s another OPINION. Just like my own (which differs from yours). However, I’m not here to prove the validity of my coach’s training methods, nor my own ability. It doesn’t really matter to me what you or anyone else on here thinks. K?


Quote:


p.s. JKD is derived from other Martial Arts.




I agree. And it’s about rejecting the useless. Useless for me means NNJUTSU (there, I spelled it better for you).


Quote:

First of all I'm going to state I think you should be banned from these forums for being so ignorant JKogas. I'm not going to say anything more about this on that matter.





Bro – First, Look at my post count…… Do you really think I’m going to be banned? Second, as I have already mentioned on this thread several times – I’m giving my OPINION here man and wasn’t really bashing your beloved crappy art (my opinion) until YOU got your panties in a wad. So go sit down before you hurt yourself.


Quote:


>>>Why don’t I like it? Because NINJUTSU SUCKS!!! Because it’s a CRAP program, with CRAP training methods (I mean, come on – SMOKE BOMBS and CLIMBING SPIKES???!!!) and worst of all, all of the “Ninjas” I’VE ever known couldn’t fight themselves out of wet tissue paper. Is that enough?<<<


We don't use smoke bombs in dojo training. 'Climbing spikes' are not used for climbing, they're used for catching swords which is a skill practiced in muto dori. You can see a video of that demonstrated here. This is a skill that is part of one of the schools we learn. It is a traditional art, we learn traditional techniques. I'd like to see you put on a pair and catch one.





Dude, why catch a sword when I can simply pop a cap in the ass of the swordsman? Wouldn’t that seem like a more intelligent thing to do? Does to me. YOU go catch swords, lol.


Quote:


Just because you think the particular skill is useless does not make the art bad or inneffective. If you tried to do this you'd get your fingers chopped off. They're also used for slashing the face and in assisting grappling techniques.





Listen junior – I gave you my opinion. If you think that Ninjutsu is the greatest thing since sliced bread – have AT it! Just go to TOWN learning how to catch swords and all that implies. Be your very best at it because I really don’t care either way. I have you my opinion. This thread about whether anyone added Ninjutsu to their JKD and I have replied. That’s what the forums are for. Opinions are going to vary. Deal with it.


Quote:



http://www.ninpo.org/ninpotechniques/shuko.html

I would also recommend you take a look at some of the other techniques. They are not demonstrated in free form as to prevent unknowledgeable people from being able to use the techniques without training.

http://www.ninpo.org/Genbukan/ryuha.htm

Based on the horribly innacurate and sweeping generalizations you've made now and in the past, I'm lead to believe you are either outright lying or you have never ever actually met with a ninjutsu practicioner. We do not practice ashida kim, frank dux arts or any of that trash. These are real martial arts with sound techniques.






Can’t get a single link to open up that you provided. Not that I really care as I’m MORE than quite certain (seeing as how I’ve seen a LOT of similar links lately) that it isn’t going to sway my opinion. I mean hey, my opinion is what it is for a reason. Internet video clips, etc, aren’t going to change that. Show me personally and I might give you the benefit of a doubt. Till then, not happening.


Quote:


>Good for you. I hope everything went ok for you in highschool (where did it happen, SHOP CLASS? That’s where you nerds usually get beat up….)<

Actually no, it was in my own home against a robber who tried to come in through the window to rob me. I wound up slicing his arm open with a sword. But thanks for the respect. What have you done recently Mr. Armchair Quarterback?






Well since you asked……..

I was on my way to work (after thwarting a car jacking by beating the bad guy up) and I saw a building on fire. I went in and rescued a baby. I put the fire out, came down the building and was immediately surrounded by a gang of Mexican car thieves trying to break into my car. I beat them ALL up with my nunchaku in one hand and the baby in the other. It was incredible.

Turns out that by my solo apprehension of this gang, I put an end to a HUGE crime ring that had been in place in the city. The mayor recognized this and gave me a reward for saving the baby and fighting crime. I was given the key to the city and a day honored in my name. All that happened before lunch.

And no, I don’t believe YOUR story either so we’re even there……..


Quote:


>>>’m always interested in watching a fight. Sure, posts links and whatever you have.<<<

I don't know of any online clips of that fight. If you'd like a VHS of it why not email Ralph Severe and ask him for one, I'm 100% positive he'll send you a copy probably just for the price of shipping. They recorded all the fights including those between students as well as the 2 instructors themselves. I believe his website is www.artofcombat.com. Send Ralph an email and ask.





Perhaps I will. Perhaps if I get some extra time, I will try and research this out a little.


Quote:


>>>I really don’t CARE about maai<<<


This is why you would get your @$$ handed to you in a fight by anyone trained in real ninjutsu.





Yep….I’m sure of it. I’m quite certain a “real ninja” is going to appear out of a cloud of smoke and hand me my ass on a platter. Yep.

I’m shaking.


Quote:


Ma ai means distancing and positioning. If you really don't care about these things (and you've been training in JKD all those years) and still have no clue about them, well, I don't know what to say. But good luck to you standing there like a bonehead when someone comes into pound you, remember, you don't care about positioning!





Listen guy – I don’t use foreign terminology. I know DO know a little about distance and positioning. But this is merely keyboard pecking BS. Typing words doesn’t prove a thing and personally, I don’t care what you think about my “ability” that you have “somehow” ascertained across an internet forum. You’re a real smart fellow there to be able to figure THAT out (which really explains a lot from your end of things……).


Quote:


>Why haven’t they?<

Because they don't want to.





And YOU speak for “all” of them. Wow. “They” made YOU their representative. Actually man, “because they don’t want to” is the greatest cop-out excuse of them ALL!


Quote:


Most of them have better things to do than look tough, oil themselves up and wrestle with other men in speedos in front of 30,000 people.





You know something about those guys that DO choose to fight man? They at LEAST get into the cage bro. Don’t take that away from them. It’s more than your guys in black pajamas apparently do.


Quote:


>>>Who CARES!<<<


You pollute this forum and are not worthy of learning real martial arts. You lack the kind of respect and level headedness a martial artist should possess.





And that is your opinion. Opinions vary. And the feeling is mutual by the way.

I was merely giving this thread an opinion that you apparently couldn’t handle. From that point on I decided to home in on you simply BECAUSE of that. YOUR name has been spoken of quite often on the administrators forum pal. If I were you, I wouldn’t be throwing stones while living in a glass house. Instead of wanting MY ass banned, I’d be worrying about your OWN! Kapeche?!

And you think you “know me” from a few posts on an internet forum….sheesh.



Quote:


As far as I'm concerned you are an armchair quarterback. Stop lying about your experiences with ninjutsu, you've never come in contact with it in your life.

You absolutely do not deserve to be a moderator here. You consistently break every rule these forums have listed and you do it without regard to any of your fellow posters. This community is better without you here.






And that’s another opinion. This forum is FULL of them isn’t it? That’s the thing about the internet. You’d better get used to it.

As to whether I’m an “armchair quarterback”…..bro, I really don’t care what you think. So lets just run with that for a while. I’m nothing. I have no skill. I’m a complete beginner. I know nothing about nothing. All I have is my opinion – just like everyone else’s.

So what does it really matter? Not much at all. Go train with ninjas man because you have that right. Just like I have the right to my opinion. Isn’t that great about this place?


-John



ps: I was able to finally open those links. You can probably guess that my opinion hasn't really changed a whole lot.


Edited by JKogas (10/20/05 06:26 PM)

Top
#193876 - 10/20/05 07:53 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: HATT0R1_HANZ0]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
One more thing….

Quote:

well you really went to work on that guy...lol

im a student of the bujinkan,student of hatsumi soke,the grandmaster of the nine schools of the bujinkan...3 of which are ninpo.

im not here to defend the art or give you cheek or anything...

but... im eager to know why you think its a crap program as you put it,with crap training methods.





Actually I was saying most of that just to badger Paradoxbox for badgering me because I gave my views regarding JKD. It wasn’t style bashing so much as it was about the notion that JKD is about being “style free”. I don’t personally believe in ‘styles’, per se’. However Paradoxbox began needling me and I just let him have it.

For the record, a schools ability to turn out good fighters is completely dependent how two things: How the school trains its students and, the students own abilities themselves. Not “every” ninjutsu school in the world is likely to be bad but there are quite a few that are – just like everything else.

I’m loudmouthed and opinionated. Above all, I don’t take all of this quite as seriously as so many appear to either. Take the bad things I say with a grain of salt is all I can tell you.


Quote:


also... the reason for no student of the bujinkan competing in events like ufc/pride/vale tudo etc is... as i said in my post b4...

budo is not a sport!... Soke Hatsumi " budo is simply the study of the best ways to kill..."





I understand your point. But if a person is capable and functional, why shouldn't he be able to perform well in a "sport"? Do you not spar? Is that not sport?

Quote:


and when your talking about using metsubishi(smoke bombs etc) and shuko(spikes hooks for climbing)... this is not a part of the teaching in the bujinkan...

proper ninjutsu has not been taught for over twenty years(unless you trained with Stephen K Hayes in 80s)

peace ... bujinkan student





I know....I was just being obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious.

With all of this having been said, I would still be surprised if 98% of the Ninjutsu schools in the world weren't garbage. I can't know that, but as I've said before, it's just my opinion.


Cheers!


-John

Top
#193877 - 10/20/05 08:26 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: JKogas]
foreverrocker Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 55
It turns out this thread was a bad idea and this is insane.

Thanks for your "opinons" Jkogas, I feel enlightend.

yuck....

Top
#193878 - 10/20/05 09:24 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
Forreverrocker the best idea is to just put him on your mental ignore list like most other forumites here have done. Since he abuses his moderator privileges and cannot be ignored via the forum functions it's the best you can do.
The littlest people usually talk trash the most and this guy talks enough trash to make a new york landfill look microscopic. Anything JKogas here has said about ninjutsu is false so definately do not rely on a person like that for your info.

Jkogas I have nothing to prove to you, and I don't give a damn whether or not you think I defended myself or not. I know the truth and I know the concequences of my actions and that is good enough for me.

I think you're probably a sub par martial artist though judging by the way you talk (actually I know you are, a good martial artist doesn't talk so much trash) and I look forward to meeting you some day in the future at a throwdown to see if you are as good as you say you are. Yeah you will see me at one. Despite your regular claims of 22 years of experience I wonder how inflated that figure is or if you were too busy eying yourself in the mirror all those years or abusing your fellow students to actually improve your skills. Your personality obviously hasn't gotten better from your MA practice. But whatever. Your post count proves nothing more than the fact that you spend more time talking trash about other peoples training than you actually do training yourself.

Other than that, you've been added to my personal ignore list permanently.

It's really disgraceful that you are a moderator on this site.

foreverrocker if you'd like some accurate info regarding ninjutsu contact me via pm and I'll hook you up with what I can.

Top
#193879 - 10/20/05 10:49 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: paradoxbox]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


Jkogas I have nothing to prove to you, and I don't give a damn whether or not you think I defended myself or not. I know the truth and I know the concequences of my actions and that is good enough for me.




Cool. All I know is that you could have made the whole thing up. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if you had made it up. People do these things all the time and I’m just not easily swayed by yet another “real life internet story”. My bad for being jaded and cynical. I’ll lose no sleep over it, I’ll say that much.


Quote:


I think you're probably a sub par martial artist though judging by the way you talk (actually I know you are, a good martial artist doesn't talk so much trash)




Just like good basketball players don’t talk trash when they play, right? Pray that you outgrow your naiveté at some point.


Quote:


and I look forward to meeting you some day in the future at a throwdown to see if you are as good as you say you are.




Save time and come my way bro. We can have one anytime you’d like. Want the address? Email me and will set something up!

Quote:


Yeah you will see me at one. Despite your regular claims of 22 years of experience I wonder how inflated that figure is or if you were too busy eying yourself in the mirror all those years or abusing your fellow students to actually improve your skills.




22 years of experience isn’t all that hard to come by considering that I’m 40 years old. I’ve been studying martial arts since I was 13. Of course, the real way to find out is to come and experience my skill or lack thereof for yourself. Bring your smoke bombs.


Quote:


Your personality obviously hasn't gotten better from your MA practice. But whatever.





Dude, you do NOT know me or, know what my personality is like. LOL at YOU for thinking you can determine this over an INTERNET FORUM! YOU are an IDIOT!


Quote:


Your post count proves nothing more than the fact that you spend more time talking trash about other peoples training than you actually do training yourself.




Man, your post count is going up by the minute.

Quote:

Other than that, you've been added to my personal ignore list permanently.




Why didn’t you just do that from the get go? All of this could have been avoided?

Quote:

It's really disgraceful that you are a moderator on this site.




Thanks for your OPINION! Those vary.


Have a nice day!


-John

Top
#193880 - 10/20/05 10:55 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
foreverrocker wrote:

Quote:


Closemindedness is not the JKD way. Just a tip.




The JKD way isn't also being so "open minded" that your BRAINS fall out. Just another tip.


-John

Top
#193881 - 10/21/05 08:57 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: JKogas]
foreverrocker Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 55
John- you will have trouble finding anyone on this site to back you and your words.

You are like the a-holes on other forums that like to tear apart replies/posts, cut & paste and disect every comment. You feel the need to start trouble...you are the worst person I have encountered on this site so far.

p.s. 22 years of watching Enter the Dragon is not experience.

you have been added to my mental block list.

Top
#193882 - 10/21/05 11:45 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
I have John's back.

I suggest you all get back on the topic of ninjutsu integrated into Jeet Kune Do.

Top
#193883 - 10/21/05 12:39 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Gentlemen,
We can do better then this. I expect respectful dialogue between members. John, That includes Moderators. No one is above the rules or dicsiplinanry action.

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >


Moderator:  Cord, JKogas, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga