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#193860 - 10/19/05 02:03 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
I'd say it isn't a case of learning a whole art, it is a case of experiencing it to see if there are different approaches which might be less predominant than your other experiences.

For instance, I took a guy to a WTF TKD session once. He'd trained a bit in ninjutsu in LA (I think). The guys at the club asked him about blocking, how would he do it? He was puzzled as his school hadn't worked on blocks as blocks but as counter strikes. The TKD guys could get this idea immediately.

Like I said in my own earlier post, there's probably a lot of techniques and ideas in ninjutsu which are very practical and would fit well into a JKD syllabus based on the idea of practicality surrounding Ninjutsu.

If nothing else, the boots look cool
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#193861 - 10/19/05 07:02 PM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
foreverrocker wrote:
Quote:

I would now like you to tell me where you think I am going. And, who is in a hurry? I want to incorporate some new things just for myself, just for fun, for the heck of it. Now please stop with all the single mindedness. I just wanted to hear from people who may have studied the art.





Dude, I'm just telling you that learning more "styles" isn't what JKD is about. I don't really have a stake in what you do or DON'T do. If you want to study Ninjitsu, be my guest! I wish you much luck and am only trying to help here and share about 22 years of experience in JKD. You have the right to NOT read anything that I write.


trevek wrote:
Quote:

I'd say it isn't a case of learning a whole art, it is a case of experiencing it to see if there are different approaches which might be less predominant than your other experiences.





That's essentially saying the same thing that I was saying. If you're not learning the "whole art", then aren't you just learning "tools"? Why does learning to kick need to mean, learning the "Ninjitsu kick"? Why can't it simply be "kicking"? (or punching or grappling, etc)


-John

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#193862 - 10/20/05 03:19 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: JKogas]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
JKogas, I don't know why you like bashing ninjutsu so much, go try it yourself before you bash it. Ninjutsu and JKD have more in common than you think.

By the way I got to use several aspects of my 'ninjutsu' yesterday and it worked spectacularly. And that's the TRUTH. I defended myself, all my alarm bells were ringing (and I learned what danger signs to look for at a NINJUTSU dojo, ghasp)

Another thing I might add is that a JKD group had a big fight with a bujinkan dojo down in Texas a year or two ago, the JKD guys got whooped hard. The bujinkan guy (Ralph Severe) won the fight without striking the JKD fellow even once, despite the fact that he is HUGE and a very fierce striker. There were video tapes made of that event if you'd like to see them.

The JKD instructor had the same kind of attitude and ideas you have about ninjutsu and issued a challenge. Well he lost the challenge.

This proves that at least if you think ninjutsu offers nothing (despite your obviously false and contorted view of it) at least it can teach you a little bit about maai.

Ninjutsu is just another method of combat, stop dissing it. Especially if your knowledge of it is based on Hayes books and Robert Bussey dvd's, who by the way is considered a 'quack' as far as his ninjutsu abilities are concerned, as well as the so called 'ninjutsu' UFC fighters he trained.

No legitimate ninjutsu practicioners have entered any UFC fight.

And for the last time please start spelling it ninJUTSU, as a basic respect for the Japanese language, thank you.

kanji for jitsu;
http://www.budo-nyumon.homepage.t-online.de/jitsu1.jpg

kanji for jutsu;
http://www.budo-nyumon.homepage.t-online.de/jutsu1.jpg

There is a difference, trust me.

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#193863 - 10/20/05 06:09 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: paradoxbox]
HATT0R1_HANZ0 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 9
"No legitimate ninjutsu practicioners have entered any UFC fight" this is the truth... i didnt know he was trained by bussey though...lol

made some good points there...

however,when you said there was a challenge between jkd dojo and a bujinkan dojo you lost me.

there is NO bujinkan registered dojo on the face of this planet that would take part in competition/challenge or whatever...budo is not a sport, its not for gaining a collection of trophies or cash or pride or perfect fight record bla bla bla...

Hatsumi Soke " budo is simply the study of the best ways to kill..."

you also said you could provide videos of this competition as you put it...

can you post them please...?


peace...Bujinkan student

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#193864 - 10/20/05 07:26 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: paradoxbox]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

JKogas, I don't know why you like bashing ninjutsu so much, go try it yourself before you bash it. Ninjutsu and JKD have more in common than you think.




Why donít I like it? Because NINJUTSU SUCKS!!! Because itís a CRAP program, with CRAP training methods (I mean, come on Ė SMOKE BOMBS and CLIMBING SPIKES???!!!) and worst of all, all of the ďNinjasĒ IíVE ever known couldnít fight themselves out of wet tissue paper. Is that enough?

Of course, that is MY OPINION and youíre welcome to take it or leave it. If you donít LIKE it, Iíd suggest leaving it.

Quote:


By the way I got to use several aspects of my 'ninjutsu' yesterday and it worked spectacularly. And that's the TRUTH. I defended myself, all my alarm bells were ringing (and I learned what danger signs to look for at a NINJUTSU dojo, ghasp)




Good for you. I hope everything went ok for you in highschool (where did it happen, SHOP CLASS? Thatís where you nerds usually get beat upÖ.)


Quote:


Another thing I might add is that a JKD group had a big fight with a bujinkan dojo down in Texas a year or two ago, the JKD guys got whooped hard. The bujinkan guy (Ralph Severe) won the fight without striking the JKD fellow even once, despite the fact that he is HUGE and a very fierce striker. There were video tapes made of that event if you'd like to see them.




Iím always interested in watching a fight. Sure, posts links and whatever you have.

Quote:


The JKD instructor had the same kind of attitude and ideas you have about ninjutsu and issued a challenge. Well he lost the challenge.

This proves that at least if you think ninjutsu offers nothing (despite your obviously false and contorted view of it) at least it can teach you a little bit about maai.




I really donít CARE about maai, lol. Nor do I care about that suck-ass art known as ďninjutsuĒ. Itís my opinion and YES, I am welcome to it as youíre welcome to your own. If you werenít so insecure about yourself and ninjutsu (where the guys prowl around in their crappy little black pajamas), you wouldnít get so perturbed over me issuing my opinion. Besides, Iíve not said one thing (until now) really bashing it, merely giving my opinion regarding JKD. But now, YOU have opened the can bro.

Quote:


No legitimate ninjutsu practitioners have entered any UFC fight.





Why havenít they?


Quote:


And for the last time please start spelling it ninJUTSU, as a basic respect for the Japanese language, thank you.




Look guy, donít tell me what to say, how to type, or how to respect the Japanese language. I live I America. I speak English and donít give one ratís ass about Japanese language or culture. Itís my personal right to have an opinion and to speak my mind. That is the nature of public forums like this one. All I have been doing is sharing my PERSONAL view about JKD until you opened your punk ass mouth. Deal with it.


Quote:


kanji for jitsu;
http://www.budo-nyumon.homepage.t-online.de/jitsu1.jpg

kanji for jutsu;
http://www.budo-nyumon.homepage.t-online.de/jutsu1.jpg

There is a difference, trust me.




Who CARES!


-John

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#193865 - 10/20/05 07:44 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: JKogas]
HATT0R1_HANZ0 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 9
well you really went to work on that guy...lol

im a student of the bujinkan,student of hatsumi soke,the grandmaster of the nine schools of the bujinkan...3 of which are ninpo.

im not here to defend the art or give you cheek or anything...

but... im eager to know why you think its a crap program as you put it,with crap training methods.

also... the reason for no student of the bujinkan competing in events like ufc/pride/vale tudo etc is... as i said in my post b4...

budo is not a sport!... Soke Hatsumi " budo is simply the study of the best ways to kill..."

and when your talking about using metsubishi(smoke bombs etc) and shuko(spikes hooks for climbing)... this is not a part of the teaching in the bujinkan...

proper ninjutsu has not been taught for over twenty years(unless you trained with Stephen K Hayes in 80s)

peace ... bujinkan student

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#193866 - 10/20/05 09:31 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: JKogas]
foreverrocker Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 55
JKogas, I don't know what to say to you, I have a word though...pathetic.

I am just interested in new things, thats it. To come on to my post with no knowledge of anything being discussed (see smoke bombs and climbing spikes) and bash the art which in turn is to make me look stupid for having interest in it.


I want you to tell me what gives your words any backing. Please do not say 20 years of JKD training, if so. Find a different teacher, that one sucks.

p.s. JKD is derived from other Martial Arts.

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#193867 - 10/20/05 09:56 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: foreverrocker]
HATT0R1_HANZ0 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 9
foreverRocker...are you or have you been a student in the bujinkan?...

just curious...

also.. a few posts above one guy said nin has a lot in common with jkd...he was not wrong.

for starters... 1.they are not sports,competing for shiney trophies and big egos...2. anything goes...if it works use it!

i could go on forever...

bruce had no knowledge or access to the only teacher in his lifespan(Takamatsu Sensei) so he never had the chance to learn this ancient art... im sure he would have been interested.

i think it would be a good choice to combine jkd with bujinkan taijutsu...if you study bujinkan taijutsu as your first martial art for say five years,get the basics and then study jkd for 5 years,then i think you would have a well rounded ability... i think they go hand in hand more than most arts would go hand in hand with jkd

just a thought...

peace...bujinkan student

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#193868 - 10/20/05 10:43 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: JKogas]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
First of all I'm going to state I think you should be banned from these forums for being so ignorant JKogas. I'm not going to say anything more about this on that matter.

>Why donít I like it? Because NINJUTSU SUCKS!!! Because itís a CRAP program, with CRAP training methods (I mean, come on Ė SMOKE BOMBS and CLIMBING SPIKES???!!!) and worst of all, all of the ďNinjasĒ IíVE ever known couldnít fight themselves out of wet tissue paper. Is that enough?<

We don't use smoke bombs in dojo training. 'Climbing spikes' are not used for climbing, they're used for catching swords which is a skill practiced in muto dori. You can see a video of that demonstrated here. This is a skill that is part of one of the schools we learn. It is a traditional art, we learn traditional techniques. I'd like to see you put on a pair and catch one. Just because you think the particular skill is useless does not make the art bad or inneffective. If you tried to do this you'd get your fingers chopped off. They're also used for slashing the face and in assisting grappling techniques.

http://www.ninpo.org/ninpotechniques/shuko.html

I would also recommend you take a look at some of the other techniques. They are not demonstrated in free form as to prevent unknowledgeable people from being able to use the techniques without training.

http://www.ninpo.org/Genbukan/ryuha.htm

Based on the horribly innacurate and sweeping generalizations you've made now and in the past, I'm lead to believe you are either outright lying or you have never ever actually met with a ninjutsu practicioner. We do not practice ashida kim, frank dux arts or any of that trash. These are real martial arts with sound techniques.

>Good for you. I hope everything went ok for you in highschool (where did it happen, SHOP CLASS? Thatís where you nerds usually get beat upÖ.)<

Actually no, it was in my own home against a robber who tried to come in through the window to rob me. I wound up slicing his arm open with a sword. But thanks for the respect. What have you done recently Mr. Armchair Quarterback?

>Iím always interested in watching a fight. Sure, posts links and whatever you have.<

I don't know of any online clips of that fight. If you'd like a VHS of it why not email Ralph Severe and ask him for one, I'm 100% positive he'll send you a copy probably just for the price of shipping. They recorded all the fights including those between students as well as the 2 instructors themselves. I believe his website is www.artofcombat.com. Send Ralph an email and ask.

>I really donít CARE about maai<

This is why you would get your @$$ handed to you in a fight by anyone trained in real ninjutsu. Ma ai means distancing and positioning. If you really don't care about these things (and you've been training in JKD all those years) and still have no clue about them, well, I don't know what to say. But good luck to you standing there like a bonehead when someone comes into pound you, remember, you don't care about positioning!

>Why havenít they?<

Because they don't want to. Most of them have better things to do than look tough, oil themselves up and wrestle with other men in speedos in front of 30,000 people.

>Who CARES!<
You pollute this forum and are not worthy of learning real martial arts. You lack the kind of respect and level headedness a martial artist should possess.

As far as I'm concerned you are an armchair quarterback. Stop lying about your experiences with ninjutsu, you've never come in contact with it in your life.

You absolutely do not deserve to be a moderator here. You consistently break every rule these forums have listed and you do it without regard to any of your fellow posters. This community is better without you here.

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#193869 - 10/20/05 11:01 AM Re: Have any of you tried to add "Ninjutsu" to JKD [Re: paradoxbox]
HATT0R1_HANZ0 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 9
i noticed you posted a genbukan link...

do you study in the genbukan under tanemura san?

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