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#193768 - 10/13/05 12:02 PM Heian or Pinan kata?
bo-ken Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
I was wondering how many of you practice these kata. I love them and have been doing them for years. Lately it seems I practice them more then another kata. I believe that they are great and shouldn't be viewed as "beginner" kata only. My favorite is Heian Godan.

I have a few questions. What does your school call these kata Heian or Pinan? Which is your favorite and why?

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#193769 - 10/13/05 12:12 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: bo-ken]
Galen Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/04
Posts: 381
Our school actually called them "Heinan".

I dont really have a favorite of these. In truth, I am semi-lukewarm about kata anyway. I honestly believe that its importance has been hugely overblown.

Sorry...Not intending to derail your thread into a kata vs. non-kata debate, so please, lets not do that.

Of the five (we do Shodan through Godan) I would have to say my favorite is Godan. I find it has a little more variation in techniwue than the others.

G
_________________________
Nothing imperfect is the measure of anything!

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#193770 - 10/13/05 12:25 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: bo-ken]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
I like them all. We call them Pinan and Pyung Ahn. I have taken alot of pleasure in them lately. I do'nt think I have a favorite. It might be Pinan Shodan or what we call Pyung Ahn Edan. For me it's like watching and episode of "LOST'. I'm not quite sure what I'll find. Theres alot of "What the heck just happened "and " What does this mean?"

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#193771 - 10/13/05 12:36 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: oldman]
bo-ken Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
Well oldman I don't watch Lost but I see what you mean. So many people have different views of the bunkai that it can seem like "what the heck just happened" and "What does this mean?".

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#193772 - 10/13/05 04:08 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: bo-ken]
chinto01 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 102
We call them pinan also. Some people look down upon these katas because of why Itosu Sensei developed them. I believe thay are just as valuable as the other forms that we study.

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#193773 - 10/15/05 05:32 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: chinto01]
bo-ken Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
Chinto01 I agree

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#193774 - 10/16/05 12:37 AM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: bo-ken]
Budoblonde Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/21/05
Posts: 7
Loc: NZ
We call them Pinan.
As our dojo is in the process of changing styles the Pinan Katas will no longer be taught.
However we still regulary practice them and everyone enjoys doing them. I have no favorite kata I enjoy them all.

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#193775 - 10/16/05 10:21 AM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: bo-ken]
pritt Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 16

So do i, i practice them (1-5) for everytime
when i'm in dojo....this is good for all
practitioners. If pinan katas is good,
i'm sure your kusokan series must also good

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#193776 - 10/16/05 10:48 AM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: bo-ken]
Wado-AJ Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 112
Loc: gorinchem, Holland
Hi there,

I practise Wado Ryu. We call it Pinan. Here a link to a video of myself performing your favourite: Godan. Remember it looks a bit different then yours, this is Wado Ryu.

http://www.art-of-budo.com/EN/videos/kata_pinangodan.wmv

Bye, AJ
_________________________
Karateschool Wadokan Gorinchem www.art-of-budo.com

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#193777 - 10/18/05 02:23 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: bo-ken]
roniwankan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 99
Loc: Brazil, Goias
I agree with you when you say that Heian shouldn't be considered as kata for beginners. These serie contains lot of Kanku/Kushanku movements, Bassai/Passai...
But I agree that they are basic: because what supports a house is the base. Without it the house will not "stand up".
Understand what I mean? I think so
What for knowing advanced katas if you don't know the bases that compose it. What do we learn first in karate? Isn't it kihon, and it means: Basic!!!!
With strong roots you will grow up strong too!
_________________________
KARATE DO GA MUZUKASHII MICHI ARUKI NI DESSU, SHIKASHI YOI MONO WO YARI MASSU.

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#193778 - 10/18/05 04:39 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: roniwankan]
roninofGa Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 57
Hi, We do the five Heian katas and use the Japanese term that Funakoshi coined "Heian" simply because I like that name compared with to Okinawan Pinan. We do how ever stress to our students that the Heians and the Pinans are the same just different names. We use them as mid level katas to teach how to look for the bunkai and how to think and train with the kata before they reach the harder katas.

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#193779 - 10/25/05 06:32 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: roninofGa]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
Before the pinan were invented, students learned Passai and Kusanku and other kata that today are considered "advanced" from the very beginning. Not that they aren't useful for practicing the basics and "building up" to the longer kata...but I would not call them necessary. They are basically a breaking down of the longer kata into smaller parts so that students can learn them more quickly. Training in one advanced kata constantly, and practicing combinations of moves from just that one kata may have the same effect.
That being said, I enjoy Pinan Yondan and Godan the best, like others have said they have the widest variety of techniques. I especially like the wrist twist in Godan, and the turn/throw.

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#193780 - 10/25/05 11:34 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: WuXing]
bo-ken Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
Not to be a jerk but are you saying they aren't necessary because they are short? Tekki is not very long yet it used to be the first kata in Shotokan and is very important.

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#193781 - 10/26/05 08:23 AM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: bo-ken]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
Not because they are short. Because they are derivatives of the advanced kata. The techniques in the pinan kata are almost all found in other advanced kata. It makes it easier to learn those advanced kata when you've already seen a lot of the moves in pinan. But before pinan were created, beginners just learned the long kata. Naihanchi aka tekki kata are a different set all together. They are important both for body conditioning and for close fighting/grappling, and are considered the "beginning and end of karate"(shorin ryu). Pinan are still great teaching kata, and if I started teaching I would probably use them. But I don't think karate is missing anything without them.

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#193782 - 10/26/05 10:06 AM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: bo-ken]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I like Heian Nidan, Yodan and Godan, Sandan I always thought was odd but you find this elbow technique or a version of it in the filipino hubud drills which makes the Heian Sandan Kata a solid reference point, if you trained in both.

And alerts you to that there are very few new ways of doing things and Karate seems to have covered most. So it is as basic as your definition or bunkias. It can be quite advanced.


Edited by Neko456 (10/26/05 10:07 AM)
_________________________
DBAckerson

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#193783 - 10/26/05 01:47 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: Neko456]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
Yeah, I love those elbow techniques! They are found in Chinto, too, though not in combination with crescent kicks.

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#193784 - 11/01/05 03:57 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: WuXing]
Sogobudo Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 4
We always went with Heian. I too enjoy the early kata such as yondan and nidan.

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#193785 - 11/01/05 04:14 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: bo-ken]
still wadowoman Offline
Improved beefier techno-prat

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 3420
Loc: Residence:UK- Heart:Md, USA
In Wado they are Pinan. Most of you probably know that Pinan is the Chinese spelling, used by Okinawans and Heian is the Japanese spelling.

I don't have a favourite, I enjoy them all.
Sharon
_________________________
Anyone mind if I sit down?

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#193786 - 11/09/05 03:13 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: still wadowoman]
idiotman Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/09/05
Posts: 1
Loc: Durham UK
Hi is my first post on this forum, so when I first joined Karate and was introduced to Kata I was horrified that I had to learn so many. In Wado Ryu we start with Pinan Nidan other styles call it Heian Shodan, we switched the first two kaka for some reason that escapes me for now.

Iíve got the utmost respect for the Pinan Katas, first off its for many of us in karate, are the first kata we are introduced too. So coming up through our belts and all five Pinan/Heian kata we are well versed in our kata bunkai. They help develop our basic techniques and give us the tools to take to our Dan belts, so yes Iím a fan of the Pinan/Heian Katas.


Marc
_________________________
TEACHERS OPEN THE DOOR, BUT YOU MUST ENTER YOURSELF

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#193787 - 11/27/05 10:58 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: bo-ken]
RiverHorse Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 5
Loc: Massachusetts
We call them Heian, and I like them all. I'd have
to say Yondan challenges me the most. We also work
them in different ways. Sometimes with feet only to focus
on stances and transitions. Sometimes super slow, other
times full speed and power. Occasionally we'll do Shodan
and Nidan mirror imaged. Also, do you always start facing
the same way in your dojo? I think it's good to switch the
way you face. Surprising how it can screw you up if you
aren't concentrating.

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#193788 - 11/28/05 12:02 AM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: RiverHorse]
hawkfish Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 28
Loc: Illinois USA
We call the kata's Heian in our club. So far, I have only practiced Heian Shodan, Heian Nidan and Heian Sandan but I have seen others perform the other two Heian kata.

I would have to say that I like Heian Sandan the best so far.

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#193789 - 11/28/05 06:45 AM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: RiverHorse]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
I agree it is important to change up your starting position. Another thing is to try them blindfolded and see where you end up at the end.

Oh and we call them Pinan in my system and I think Yondan and Godan are my favorite.
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#193790 - 12/08/05 07:39 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: bo-ken]
BAMA REDNECK9000 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 329
Loc: ALABAMA
We call them Heian but they were called Pinan first before they started adding the Jpanese dialect. My favorites are Nidan, Yondan, and Godan.
_________________________
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.

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#193791 - 12/09/05 11:45 AM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: BAMA REDNECK9000]
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
i'm in wado so they'er pinan for us. i only known pinan nidan so therefore it has to be my fave by default. can't wait to get me grubby mitts on shodan, i love some of those locking movements.
_________________________
Go seek the advise of a qualified instructor.

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#193792 - 12/30/05 03:34 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: hawkfish]
Seiren Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 1
Pinans katas etc are good teaching vehicles to exercise a large group while doing martial arts moves rather than simply exercise. It is helpful for moving a large group as well since you don't want everyone crashing into each other - and you can address adjustments as they stand out easily.

However kata has its place and it is a piece of the picture and should take a back seat to actual interaction with physical application/bunkai of technique. It helps students take home homework since they can recreate the moves on their own if they have been drilled with it. Again, not a replacement to actual interaction as many watered down schools have made it. If you watch a heavy emphasis Kata student vs one where interaction is emphasized, the kata focused student is very choppy and often can't hold their own. Watch the performance of some past advanced black belts from schools where they were kata champions that have entered UFC or kumite - they get clobbered quickly.

good luck with your training

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