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#193778 - 10/18/05 04:39 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: roniwankan]
roninofGa Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 57
Hi, We do the five Heian katas and use the Japanese term that Funakoshi coined "Heian" simply because I like that name compared with to Okinawan Pinan. We do how ever stress to our students that the Heians and the Pinans are the same just different names. We use them as mid level katas to teach how to look for the bunkai and how to think and train with the kata before they reach the harder katas.

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#193779 - 10/25/05 06:32 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: roninofGa]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
Before the pinan were invented, students learned Passai and Kusanku and other kata that today are considered "advanced" from the very beginning. Not that they aren't useful for practicing the basics and "building up" to the longer kata...but I would not call them necessary. They are basically a breaking down of the longer kata into smaller parts so that students can learn them more quickly. Training in one advanced kata constantly, and practicing combinations of moves from just that one kata may have the same effect.
That being said, I enjoy Pinan Yondan and Godan the best, like others have said they have the widest variety of techniques. I especially like the wrist twist in Godan, and the turn/throw.

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#193780 - 10/25/05 11:34 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: WuXing]
bo-ken Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
Not to be a jerk but are you saying they aren't necessary because they are short? Tekki is not very long yet it used to be the first kata in Shotokan and is very important.

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#193781 - 10/26/05 08:23 AM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: bo-ken]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
Not because they are short. Because they are derivatives of the advanced kata. The techniques in the pinan kata are almost all found in other advanced kata. It makes it easier to learn those advanced kata when you've already seen a lot of the moves in pinan. But before pinan were created, beginners just learned the long kata. Naihanchi aka tekki kata are a different set all together. They are important both for body conditioning and for close fighting/grappling, and are considered the "beginning and end of karate"(shorin ryu). Pinan are still great teaching kata, and if I started teaching I would probably use them. But I don't think karate is missing anything without them.

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#193782 - 10/26/05 10:06 AM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: bo-ken]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I like Heian Nidan, Yodan and Godan, Sandan I always thought was odd but you find this elbow technique or a version of it in the filipino hubud drills which makes the Heian Sandan Kata a solid reference point, if you trained in both.

And alerts you to that there are very few new ways of doing things and Karate seems to have covered most. So it is as basic as your definition or bunkias. It can be quite advanced.


Edited by Neko456 (10/26/05 10:07 AM)
_________________________
DBAckerson

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#193783 - 10/26/05 01:47 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: Neko456]
WuXing Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 481
Loc: Idaho, USA
Yeah, I love those elbow techniques! They are found in Chinto, too, though not in combination with crescent kicks.

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#193784 - 11/01/05 03:57 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: WuXing]
Sogobudo Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 4
We always went with Heian. I too enjoy the early kata such as yondan and nidan.

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#193785 - 11/01/05 04:14 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: bo-ken]
still wadowoman Offline
Improved beefier techno-prat

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 3420
Loc: Residence:UK- Heart:Md, USA
In Wado they are Pinan. Most of you probably know that Pinan is the Chinese spelling, used by Okinawans and Heian is the Japanese spelling.

I don't have a favourite, I enjoy them all.
Sharon
_________________________
Anyone mind if I sit down?

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#193786 - 11/09/05 03:13 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: still wadowoman]
idiotman Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/09/05
Posts: 1
Loc: Durham UK
Hi is my first post on this forum, so when I first joined Karate and was introduced to Kata I was horrified that I had to learn so many. In Wado Ryu we start with Pinan Nidan other styles call it Heian Shodan, we switched the first two kaka for some reason that escapes me for now.

Iíve got the utmost respect for the Pinan Katas, first off its for many of us in karate, are the first kata we are introduced too. So coming up through our belts and all five Pinan/Heian kata we are well versed in our kata bunkai. They help develop our basic techniques and give us the tools to take to our Dan belts, so yes Iím a fan of the Pinan/Heian Katas.


Marc
_________________________
TEACHERS OPEN THE DOOR, BUT YOU MUST ENTER YOURSELF

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#193787 - 11/27/05 10:58 PM Re: Heian or Pinan kata? [Re: bo-ken]
RiverHorse Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 5
Loc: Massachusetts
We call them Heian, and I like them all. I'd have
to say Yondan challenges me the most. We also work
them in different ways. Sometimes with feet only to focus
on stances and transitions. Sometimes super slow, other
times full speed and power. Occasionally we'll do Shodan
and Nidan mirror imaged. Also, do you always start facing
the same way in your dojo? I think it's good to switch the
way you face. Surprising how it can screw you up if you
aren't concentrating.

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