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#193710 - 10/13/05 07:24 AM Point of the Week - Triple Warmer 17
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
The idea of the Point of the Week posts is to stimulate discussion of the manipulation and application of a specific PP in actual combat. The PP's are workable within all MA systems and their study will greatly enhance the effectiveness of ALL arts. However, you must first have an advanced understanding of your art before you begin looking at PP's!

Here is a basic guide to PP attacks. Please pay close attention to the Safety section.

Triple Warmer 17/TW17 or Yi Feng (Wind Screen)

This weeks point of the week is Triple Warmer*** 17 or TW17 for short. It is located on a Fire meridian and is of Yang polarity according to TCM theory. It is located on the back of the jaw hinge here.

This point is listed in the 36 Vital points of the Bubishi.

***The Triple Warmer meridian is also referred to as the Triple Burner or Triple Heater meridian and maybe abreviated as TB or TH respectively on some acupoint charts.

Striking

TW17 is an extremely effective point which is activated at 90 degree angle, and responds to both striking and pressing. When striking a dull heavy impact will produce the greatest effect.

Striking this point will result in extreme shock being sent into the brain causing disorientation, unconsciousness and possibly death. Due to TW17's location it is also likely that a forceful strike will dislocate the jaw.

When pressed TW17 will cause intense localised pain and force the recipient to try to move away from the pain.

TW17 is also extremely useful for Doorman and LEO's attempting wake drunks. This should be done with caution though as it can be a rather rude and painful awakening for someone who could become agressive.

Applications

As always applications are always subjective and to be used as a basis to stimulate thought.

Off a straight punch if you slip to the outside TW17 can be a very viable target. Depending on how far you manage to go round to your opponents rear will determine the strike used to hit it. An accurate back fist is ideal hitting in if you need to create the extra angle. If you manage to swing round far enough a palm heel will hit in nicely. However a vertical fist slots perfectly into TW17.

Slipping to the inside of a punch TW17 can be struck using an Outer Block style movement to strike with the medial side of the fist. Again this slots in very well, especially when using LI10 as the set up. LI10 will really open up TW17 from both a posture and energetic point of view.

This point can also be struck using a leopard paw style strike, hooking in and using the middle knuckles to impact. This would work extremely well off a hook. This is an application for the Tai Chi movement "Tiger Boxes Ears" which is a double strike into TW17 on both sides of the body which is considered to be a finishing move.

When pressing TW17 is superb for digging in with the thumb from behind, this will cause the body to move away from the pain. This results in stretching the body out, making it a lovely set up for a follow up attack. It is a superb point for ensuring compliancy of an aggressor.


Edited by Gavin (10/13/05 08:05 AM)
_________________________
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www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#193711 - 10/13/05 01:51 PM Re: Point of the Week - Triple Warmer 17 [Re: Gavin]
jamesd Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 145
Loc: Essex,England
Hi Gavin,

Once again thanks for providing this info , just like you've already mentioned i've used TW17 as a wake up call plenty of times and can vouch for it's effectiveness, also when working this point is great for reinforcing control and restraint, i've found that when the opponent starts to struggle you can quickly regain compliance from him (her) by pressing (gouging) this point, it works extremely well when applied intermitently, you can sort of turn the pain on and off, other applications i can think of are: when grappling you could strike this point with a reverse elbow, also if you've pulled your opponent forward so he is bent at the waist i'm quite sure you could strike TW17 with a gedan barai, another thing i've found with this target is that it seems to be felt by most people, (yes even Dudley) regards,

James
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#193712 - 10/13/05 03:11 PM Re: Point of the Week - Triple Warmer 17 [Re: jamesd]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
I was wondering when you was going to get around to this one. I had this point demonstated to me by my Jujutsu instructor.
Using a wrist lock he took me to the floor, folded my arm up in a figure of 4 and then just for fun showed me how he could keep me on the floor with one finger. With the pressure on this point I can say that I was immobilised. Absolutely could not move an inch. When he asked me to try and get up even the slight movement of my arms was enough to increase the pressure. The pain then was excruciating. I had no option but to lay absolutely still.
I like this one, but then, hey, I'm a masochist.
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#193713 - 10/13/05 05:46 PM Re: Point of the Week - Triple Warmer 17 [Re: jamesd]
alan shindsharonjr Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 54
Loc: beachwood.ohio USA
Hi Gavin
Glad you included a warning on the danger using this point.
the danger is maxed when lets say it is used on a sitting opponent who refused to move from the floor or a chair while drunk or just protesting..
Security personel will often gouge or strike from behind pushing forward and upwards. If this is done very hard or with a wooden control stick death may occur.
So be careful when tw-17 is used for real. As a former corrections officer in a max state prison I can tell you its easy to increase the level of force without realizing it.
Alan

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#193714 - 10/14/05 09:18 PM Re: Point of the Week - Triple Warmer 17 [Re: Gavin]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
I too have experienced being held on the floor with a lock of some kind, and a finger in TW17. Yes it is effective. I don't like to use this technique in practice because I get concerned about risk of damage to the structures under it. (Auricular artery maybe? Help?) I used to practice with someone who had to win no matter what. That puts a lot of responsibility on me because I knew he'd rather die than tap out.

It is different pressing into this point in the standing situation when you are using it to turn someone's head to set up a strike or a take-down because with the pressure, uke moves his head and that is the action that protects the point from damage. When uke can't move, then it is more dangerous.
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

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#193715 - 10/17/05 07:13 PM Re: Point of the Week - Triple Warmer 17 [Re: underdog]
h2whoa Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 427
Loc: Fiji
I would like to say thank you to gavin! Alot of the places I go to PP attacks are a thing of myth and is ridiculed. In my heart I feel for the people who refuse to learn because of stubborness!!
Great informative post buddy, keep it up!!
_________________________
No matter how fashionable it is on Krypton, I will not wear my underwear on the outside of my Gi!!

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#193716 - 10/18/05 04:50 AM Re: Point of the Week - Triple Warmer 17 [Re: Gavin]
John45 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 15
Loc: London, UK
Hi Gavin,

Found the forum........

I was just thinking (which is always very dangerous for me !!) that maybe I could add just a little something for you to try, that you might like.

When using your thumb on the point..........as you push "in and up" vibrate the thumb as well.
The vibration really adds a "little something"

John
www.Kissakikarate.com

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#193717 - 10/18/05 05:51 AM Re: Point of the Week - Triple Warmer 17 [Re: John45]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Hi John,

That kind of freaked me out....I thought, wow, some guy has just posted exactly what John has just emailed me.....I hadn't had my cup of tea yet! Welcome to the forum mate, it'd be great to have someone of your experience posting up here! Think you're the first from Mr Morris's clan!

The vibration is a great addition to the push into TW17. Basically it pulses the pain created so the brain doesn't get a chance to become accustom to it. Its pretty scary how quickly the body adpats to pain levels, by vibrating the pain in the bodys pain register is effectively going, "On", "Off, "On", "Off"....etc....the body is sent in a state of confusion as it trys to work out how to react to the stimulus. This works with any PP that responds to pressing, and is essential if you are trying to keep someone compliant for any period of time. Ideal for Doorman and LEO's! Just remember the words of caution already mentioned in this thread.

The vibration is actually the way I'm doing wake ups at work. It requires a lot less pressure to get them to respond. Less pressure, more saftey!

Thanks for the input John!

Gav
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#193718 - 10/27/05 11:59 AM Re: Point of the Week - Triple Warmer 17 [Re: Gavin]
Shi Miao Zun Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 198
Loc: Windsor UK
I like this point to use with the mental point on the mandible M-HN-18, (1 cun lateral to ren24). You can get quite a good grip on a persons face with this and it tends to get quite a good reaction.


Kind regards,

Sam
_________________________
In peace prepare for war, in war prepare for peace. www.fightschool.co.uk

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#193719 - 10/27/05 01:08 PM Re: Point of the Week - Triple Warmer 17 [Re: Shi Miao Zun]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
I like it too. I use the Mental foramen as a grappling point to turn uke's head. It unlocks the neck. This sets up the strike to SJ 17 nicely. It is also on the same dermatome so it has an additive effect.
_________________________
The older I get, the better I was!

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