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#193350 - 10/13/05 09:44 AM Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environme [Re: sushil_yadav]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
One thing that comes to mind is the Amish. They live a simple, frugal, and somewhat austere live in small closenit farming communities. The pace of their lives would be considered mind numbingly slow to the average person. Their community is homogeneous and supportive. That being stated their percentages of of people in the community experienceing depression is equal to or greater than in most cases with their modern neighbors. The Amish have a great respect and love for animals. Almost to a person the Amish agree, animals taste great.

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#193351 - 10/13/05 10:06 AM Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment [Re: harlan]
Chanters Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 559
Loc: Manchester, UK
That'll teach me to scan through instead of reading the article thoroughly!
_________________________
Chanters

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#193352 - 10/13/05 10:10 AM Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment [Re: sushil_yadav]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
While I appreciate your attempts, I conmpletely disagree with all of your assumptions (yes, they are assumptions until you do get those tests done). While they may have occasional validity to a few random individuals, making your statements as a truth for the whole of society shows a gross misunderstanding of the science you wish to have prove you theories.

I don't understand why you would want actors to participate in your experiment on suffering. Actors act, they do not feel these emotions genuinely. How do you expect to get proper readings from people who are false(acting) from the very beginning?

Quote:

[If scientists can discover 4000 different chemicals in cigarette-smoke then they can certainly detect the few chemicals released in blood when we experience higher-level emotions like pain, empathy, compassion, remorse etcÖ ]



I find it only slightly amusing that you don't even know how this experiment of yours will be measured.

I don't have the time to go through the rest of your post, but the few sentences I have read are all very, very biased and you are doing nothing but stating theory as fact with no basis of support. How much of your 20 years have been spent reading studies by others? I see no references or quotes of others' materials.

Here's a reference for you:
http://www.humboldt1.com/~cr2/emotion.htm
"A Cultural-Psychological Analysis of Emotions"
Carl Ratner

As for your idea that thinking destroys emotion (mind and environment) and your generalizations about society, I am deeply offended.



How's that for thinking and emotion?

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#193353 - 10/13/05 10:39 AM Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment [Re: JoelM]
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
The fact that the test's haven't been done is IMVHO not the biggest problem, the big problem is that the conclusions drawn aren't logical.

Then again; if you fight against intelligence, why should you try to use it?

Practise what you preach, neh?

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#193354 - 10/13/05 08:29 PM Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment [Re: JoelM]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by JoelM -

Quote:

As for your idea that thinking destroys emotion (mind and environment) and your generalizations about society, I am deeply offended.



How's that for thinking and emotion?




LMAO!!

Good point, Joel.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#193355 - 10/13/05 11:32 PM Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment [Re: sushil_yadav]
rideonlythelabel Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1242
Loc: st-hubert quebec canada
Quote:

The planet is getting destroyed moment by moment but there are some people who just donít seem to notice it. They are so much focussed on material existence and living at the physical level that they canít see [feel] the suffering.




I agree with you with only one of your conclusions; that to save the environment would be a good thing. And I disagree on why it would be a good idea to save it. The only reason why I think we should do it is that I care about the humans in the future generations.

I don't believe, though, in the concept of necessity, especially when it comes to the survival of a species. Nothing is necessary; even swimming when you're drowning. Even if you died today, the world wouldn't stop. Even if the entire human species was wiped out tomorrow, the solar system wouldn't stop. Even if the entire universe was annihilated, then what? Nothing, that's what.

We don't HAVE to save the environment, but maybe we should. If you care about all those not-born-yet humans.


Quote:

The article is mine and there is a labour of 20 years behind it.




That's simply not true. Maybe you're trying to make us feel bad about disagreeing with your illogical article, but there is not 20 years behind that. No way.

We didn't like (didn't believe in) your article and told you so in a polite way. If you didn't want to hear our honest opinions, you shouldn't have posted it here.
_________________________
patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.

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#193356 - 10/13/05 11:59 PM Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment [Re: rideonlythelabel]
sushil_yadav Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 6
MattJ , Rideonlythelabel , harlan , JoelM.



It is Science that has brought us to this state of affairs. Who needs more science and more scientific proof.


Since you are posting in Zen and Meditation forum I would like to tell you a few things. People have been practicing Zen and Meditation for thousands of years. They were not so stupid as to ask for proof Ė scientific proof in your language. When they practiced Zen and Meditation they experienced the effects and benefits of it in their Mind and Body Ė and that was enough for them. They did not wait for Science to arrive and give scientific proof regarding Zen and Meditation. Their experience was their proof.

And that is exactly how I have gained knowledge about Mind and Emotions. I donít need any scientific proof. The experiments I have suggested are for people like you who just wonít understand or accept anything without proof. If some people think my correlations are wrong they are free to design experiments to prove they are wrong.


Now come to the family. How do people accept their father as their father. Where is the proof Ė the so called scientific proof. The scientific proof comes from DNA testing. How many people have got the DNA test conducted.



People like you donít realize the absurdity and stupidity behind science and scientific proof.



sushil

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#193357 - 10/14/05 12:20 AM Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment [Re: sushil_yadav]
rideonlythelabel Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1242
Loc: st-hubert quebec canada
This post makes a lot more sense. It's true that our belief in science is somewhat of a faith, and that the validity of science itself can be discussed. However, that is only partially relevant to the discussion since not all our arguments are based on science and scientific proof. A majority of our counter-arguments are based in logic. These two notions are somewhat different.

I'll only explain this notion if you ask me to.


Quote:

And that is exactly how I have gained knowledge about Mind and Emotions.




Are you implying that we have no knowledge of "Mind and Emotions"? You know, we're humans too.

Quote:

Now come to the family. How do people accept their father as their father. Where is the proof Ė the so called scientific proof. The scientific proof comes from DNA testing. How many people have got the DNA test conducted.





Ridiculous. I am perfectly aware that the belief that my father is indeed my biological father is based partially in faith. If my father is not my father, I take my hat off to him and/or my mother. It takes some guts, and a whole lot of stupidity to play a role like that for 18 years.

Quote:

People like you donít realize the absurdity and stupidity behind science and scientific proof.




I'm sorry, I was not aware that you we're such an evolved mind despites all your talk about not thinking. Looks like you grasp concepts we're not smart enough to grasp. It has been an honor to be patronized by you, sushil.
_________________________
patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.

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#193358 - 10/14/05 01:49 AM Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment [Re: sushil_yadav]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Quote:

People like you donít realize the absurdity and stupidity behind science and scientific proof.





What?! I only got through part of his mumbo-jumbo and subjective experimenting...and he posts something stupid like this.

Thank you scientists wherever you are or have been for making medicine and nice cures for people I know to survive a little longer.

Dude, Ride is so right and you are so slipping down the terrible slope of egocentric prosyltizing.

-B

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#193359 - 10/14/05 02:12 AM Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment [Re: sushil_yadav]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

People have been practicing Zen and Meditation for thousands of years.



People have been practicing science for even longer. Astronomy, Mathematics, Geology, Biology, Agriculture, Chemistry, Physics, Medicine, Meteorology, Hydrology, the list goes on. These sciences were studied by even the most "primitive" of men and societies.

Do you honestly believe that even the Zen and meditation students from the beginning followed blindly and asked for no proof of what is to come? While they may not have recieved any evidence or even asked the question out loud, but they most certainly asked themselves. Sometimes the only way to recieve the proof is to reach that state of Zen, Nirvana, Oneness, or whatever they wanted to call it. The proof is in the experience, as you say.

You say this is how you gained your knowledge, I say you are quite deluded. I know nothing of your experiences, only what so-called proofs they provided for you. But I do know that your claims are gross overgeneralizations of people, their minds and emotions, and society as a whole. Industrial society is quite a broad spectrum and covers most, if not all, of the world. To break down the world's mental "problems" into one group of sentences and sentence fragments is a great injustice and just plain wrong.

Did you read or even glimpse at the link I provided you? I hope you did, but doubt it.

Quote:

People like you donít realize the absurdity and stupidity behind science and scientific proof.



People like you don't realize the absurdity and stupidity behind your arguements and notions on humans.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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