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#192943 - 05/19/06 05:46 PM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: Ed_Morris]
jliu Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 66
Loc: Montville, NJ, USA
Hahahaha
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Pain is weakness leaving the body.

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#192944 - 05/20/06 01:25 AM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: jliu]
Mr_Heretik Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 1074
Loc: Bronx NY, USA
Indeed.

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#192945 - 05/21/06 12:54 AM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: Mr_Heretik]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
How about a punch with a 3/4 turn of the hand? It seems to also work very effectively.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#192946 - 07/13/06 12:45 AM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: ShaolinNinja]
Shaolin_Sky Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 18
Loc: Illinos, USA
I say, do whatever feels right. If you feel more comfortable, and feel like you are getting more benefit from using a horizontal fist, use it. I would still practice verticle fists, for the knowledge, but "styles" can only teach you techniques, it is up to you to create your personal style by using your strengths and what works best for you, and focusing on those, while still working on your weeknesses. This is just my opinion of course. I hope I was of some help.

-Sky

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#192947 - 07/13/06 10:50 PM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: ShaolinNinja]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello ShaolinNinja:

The question is never which is "better"... the question is always did I use it effectively!

I can do many strikes, but if I make a minor ~mechanical error~, elbow out, shoulder up, hips not correctly positioned, etc.,etc. I might or might not pull off the desired technique. But that is not the question. Did I do X technique precisely, so that I was the most efficent I was able to be.... if so what more can one hope for?

Done incorrectly the best technique can be easily improved. Done poorly, and the best technique is missing some percentage of what it can produce...

Jeff

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#192948 - 09/20/06 08:44 PM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: Ronin1966]
Rumble Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 92
In my opinion if we talking about body mechanics the vertical fist is more aligned then the horizontal fist. Also in the vertical fist the last three knuckles are the ones that impact unlike in the horizontal fist or in boxing where they emphasize on the first two knuckles. You can judge the feeling for yourself by doing a simple test and to see which one you feel works the best for you. To determine which fist is more natural to you do a push up using your fist first do a vertical fist push up then do a horizontal fist push up the feeling of the body mechanics will tell you which punch or fist is more inline same goes with which knuckles to use in hitting first use the last three knuckles to do the push up then use the first two and your body mechanics will tell you agian which knuckles line up better and the one you feel lines up better for you is the one you choose.
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#192949 - 09/21/06 03:08 AM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: Rumble]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
It depends on who you ask. A classical Karate man (Japanese arts practitioner) will almost always say horizontal. A classical Kungfu artist (Chinese style practitioner) will almost always say vertical. To me the answer lies within the 3/4 turn punch. To each is own and experimentation is the key to success.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
Lao Tzu

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#192950 - 09/21/06 09:44 PM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: Chen Zen]
Rumble Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 92
Quote:

It depends on who you ask. A classical Karate man (Japanese arts practitioner) will almost always say horizontal. A classical Kungfu artist (Chinese style practitioner) will almost always say vertical. To me the answer lies within the 3/4 turn punch. To each is own and experimentation is the key to success.




Oh my goodness chenzen when you doing the push up test you dont ask another persons opinion you ask your ownself what you feel works best for you regardless of what your style is a true martial artist seeks the truth and not be blinded by your old set ways.
_________________________
Talk is cheap take it to the pit.

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#192951 - 09/21/06 11:51 PM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: Rumble]
Mark_Jakabcsin Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 75
Loc: Fort Mill, South Carolina
Horizontal - palm up or palm down? Which provides a more solid bone structure to the elbow and hence the rest of the body? Can there be a difference of fist position between impact and final placement? i.e. Impact - vertical moving into horizontal at the final position? Again palm up or down at the end? Finally what is the range of your final placement? I.E. how far from your body is your fist upon final placement of the punch? Very key to penetration results.

MJ
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Mark J.

www.charlotte-systema.com

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#192952 - 09/22/06 02:53 AM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: Mark_Jakabcsin]
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Rumble, I know the answer lies within each person. Reread my post. I gave example of the answers he was likely to get from others. Then I gave him my own opinion which was a 3/4 turn.

Now on to Mark,

I dont know the answer to your question about which position provides better structure. Its an arguement that has gone on for ages. The rest I can answer. In many traditional arts you see the position change throughout the strike. In karate the strike often ends horizontal but starts vertical. The twist is supposed to help impact and cutting of the skin. Personally, it is my belief that this slows the fist down and accomplishes nothing as far as gains in impact or damage.
When it comes to distance, your answers will vary with each person you ask Im sure. Some people want to hit with the end of a strike so as to get a whip like effect. Others prefer to go deeper. They hit and intend to go past or through you with the punch. I prefer the whip method for two reasons. The first is power. When you punch an opponent with the kind of intent to punch past him, much of your power is absorbed. Thus robbing you of stopping power.Too much surface area. The second point is recovery time. If you strike like a whip you strike wwith the intent to return quickly and strike again. If you intend to go through the opponent there is a moment in your strike where you either go through the opponent or you do not. There is still damage caused but there is at least a full second wasted with each blow. A second doesnt sound like much but when you are talking about speed in combat you are very rarely talking about more than a few hundreths of a second difference between one man and the next. All of a sudden that second is an eternity and you already know that you cant beat every man with one punch. Why waste the time? Penetrate hard and fast and repeatedly. Thats my thinking. Whip like.


Edited by Chen Zen (09/22/06 02:57 AM)
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Lao Tzu

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