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#192933 - 10/10/05 04:26 PM Vertical vs horizontal fist
ShaolinNinja Offline
hates silicone bubishi

Registered: 10/09/05
Posts: 301
Loc: Ireland
Most martial arts teach you to punch with the fist horizontal i.e. with the back up the hand facing up, but some, such as budo taijutsu, use a vertical fist. There an article by Cristopher Caile on this site claiming that having the elbow pointing downwards (as it is when the fist is vertical) allows for force to be transmitted from the body more easily.
My own opinion is that a vetical fist does make for a more powerful punch. What are people's thoughts on this?

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#192934 - 10/10/05 08:46 PM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: ShaolinNinja]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
The difference between pounding in a nail and removing it is only 90; it's up to you to decide which angle is appropriate for the job.

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#192935 - 10/12/05 01:26 AM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: ShaolinNinja]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
There have been LOTS of posts re: this subject. Check out the archives.

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#192936 - 11/15/05 05:21 AM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: ShaolinNinja]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
This method has been in Chinese Martial arts for a long time now. Except in the internal arts, it is something that is "natural" and not "forced" (aka your mind doesn't have to think about it when your practicing technique, nor does it take years of muscle memory). The Horizontal fist can also be used with elbow down (sunk a LITTLE bit), not fully bent not fully straight. In Taiji there are many punches, only the natural way to doing them uses corckscrew like movements (fa jin), relaxed and explosive

By the way, what is Budo Taijitsu? it sounds like a Japanese interpretation of Taijichuan, only claiming it Japanese and "Secret" (as many seem to be).

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#192937 - 11/15/05 09:48 AM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: BaguaMonk]
ShaolinNinja Offline
hates silicone bubishi

Registered: 10/09/05
Posts: 301
Loc: Ireland
I think part of the argument against the vertical fist is that is leaves the inner forearm, with all its nerves and blood vessels, exposed to strikes. You make good points about the punch in Chinese martial arts. Those methods (slightly bent arm, elbow down, corkscrew movements) probably more than correct any loss of power caused by having the fist horizontal.

Budo taijutsu is a type of ninjutsu, the art of the ninja. It was called ninpo taijutsu until recently. It is taught under an organisation called the Bujinkan.
_________________________
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#192938 - 11/15/05 10:07 AM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: ShaolinNinja]
Inyo Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 25
Another reason is just distancing.. you might not be in perfect position in real life as opposed to training, of course, so minor adjustments to the punch's rotation can make up for that. If someone is in close, use an inverted fist; little further away, vertical fist; farther away, horizonal fist. And, of course, any rotation in between, like a 1/4th turn, 3/4th turn, etc.

If you're actually moving in to strike them, then it's just a matter of personal preference. Whatever you feel is more natural to you is best, IMO.


Edited by Inyo (11/15/05 10:08 AM)

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#192939 - 11/16/05 03:06 PM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: Inyo]
Tezza Offline
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Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 775
Loc: Kent, U.K.
In my opinion they are both useful. I use both depending on the circumstance.
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#192940 - 11/20/05 01:27 AM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: Tezza]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
Yeah, the vertical fist is pretty good from close to medium range. You don't have to worry too much about breaking your wrist with a vertical punch where areas a horizontal would have to be near perfect on some surfaces. The vertical fist is a really good body shoot if it comes out with an arcing motion from the waist(straight in front of the waist) to someone else's stomach. Up and then down using waist rotation.

In WingChung I believe they use straight blasts more though.
_________________________
Truth comes from the absolute stillness of the mind...

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#192941 - 05/17/06 07:18 PM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: ShaolinNinja]
jliu Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 66
Loc: Montville, NJ, USA
Isshinryu style of karate also uses vertical fist-style punches. I find them faster than the horizontal fist punches, but horizontal fists do pack more power.
_________________________
Pain is weakness leaving the body.

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#192942 - 05/18/06 07:51 AM Re: Vertical vs horizontal fist [Re: ShaolinNinja]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772

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