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#192220 - 10/08/05 02:55 PM JKD influenced by TKD?
TKDFighter89 Offline
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Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 85
I heard the fast, powerful kicks of JKD were taken from TKD and that Bruce Lee's style was influenced by TKD.

I heard that this TKD influence was brought to Mr. Lee by Jhoon Rhee, a TKD grandmaster, whom Bruce Lee was close friends with.

I got these facts through reading about both Bruce Lee and Jhoon Rhee. What do you guys think?

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#192221 - 10/08/05 04:21 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: TKDFighter89]
Mike_L Offline
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It was influenced by TKD in some way of that I am sure
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#192222 - 10/08/05 04:38 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: TKDFighter89]
MattJ Offline
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It sounds like you are asking two different things.

Was Bruce Lee influenced by TKD? His close friendship with Jhoon Rhee would seem to bear this out.

TKD's influence on JKD is less clear. Bruce was investigating many arts that use kicks - including Tang Soo Do, Muay Thai, Savate - not to mention the Northern Kung Fu styles that he was already familiar with.

I would say that modern JKD kicking tends to be built primarily off of either Muay Thai or Savate.
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#192223 - 10/08/05 04:44 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: MattJ]
Mike_L Offline
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How is it that you gather JKD kicks are influenced by muay thai? Brice Lee when asked about muay thai said he belived it needed work and the uppercut was almost non existant. After saying that why would you think JKD was influenced by muay thai? (Not a diss to muay thai or JKD!)
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#192224 - 10/08/05 04:48 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Mike_L]
SANCHIN31 Offline
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I think it was influenced by Goju,cause that's what I do.
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#192225 - 10/08/05 04:50 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Mike_L]
MattJ Offline
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Mike L -

You are doing the same thing that TKD89 did - you are confusing the man for the art. Please note that I said modern JKD tends to use MT or Savate.

Many JKD schools are using more of a MMA base (boxing or MT/BJJ) as opposed to the Wing Chun base that was prevalent when Bruce was around.
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#192226 - 10/08/05 04:52 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: SANCHIN31]
MattJ Offline
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LMAO @ SANCHIN31!!!!
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#192227 - 10/08/05 04:53 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: MattJ]
Mike_L Offline
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Agreed
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#192228 - 10/08/05 09:33 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Mike_L]
Fightknight Offline
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JKD was influenced by a search for the most effective methods. Not any particular style. Did he borrow anything from TKD? Probably. But he also borrowed from a lot of other arts as well. Is TKD a direct and obvious influence or the most significant influence on JKD? No, absolutely not.

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#192229 - 10/09/05 12:11 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Fightknight]
Mike_L Offline
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I know this but JKD is "to be like water" ever changing and does not have any strict rules as to the type of kicking.


Edited by Mike_L (10/09/05 12:12 AM)
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#192230 - 10/09/05 08:40 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: TKDFighter89]
foreverrocker Offline
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I know Bruce utilized kicks more after he started working with Chuck Norris. At least according to Chuck.I am also sure Bruce borrowed things from TKD, but not much.

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#192231 - 10/09/05 09:06 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: foreverrocker]
Leo_E_49 Offline
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Didn't Chuck Norris study TSD?
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#192232 - 10/09/05 02:03 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Leo_E_49]
trevek Offline
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I think it was TSD but it was also at a time when there was a move to rename all Korean styles TKD, so it's a bit blurry. However, Bruce also trained with Jhoon Rhee, the 'Father of American TKD' who has written a book about his relationship with Lee.
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#192233 - 10/09/05 03:31 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Leo_E_49]
SANCHIN31 Offline
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Quote:

Didn't Chuck Norris study TSD?




Among several other styles.
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#192234 - 10/11/05 05:24 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: SANCHIN31]
trevek Offline
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Like Judo, as did Bill Wallace.
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#192235 - 10/29/05 04:33 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: trevek]
etaks86 Offline
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my own opinion on his kicks i don't think tkd influenced him much at all for example there's only so many simple kicks and i think they pretty much look the same in alot of styles. i mean his main kick was a side kick and i don't think any style made up a sidekick it's just always been existent. people could use a sidekick way before people even knew what martial arts were perhaps it wouldn't be as high or fast but it would still be a sidekick none the less. really i'm just saying you don't need to learn martial arts to know how to do a front or sidekick it's just common sense and natural. people focus on what art he practiced the most or what was his core or whatever that doesn't even have anything to do with what jkd is about. you can be a karate and aikido master and if you modify and simplify your styles and fuse them at least what works best out of them then you'd basicly be doing jkd. jkd is a philosophy not a style wing chun just happen to be what lee had alot of training in it could have been anything and it would have still been jkd it just happened to be wing chun that he had proper training in. anyways if i went way off topic forgive me i don't really post all that much and get carried away sometimes. i have to feel my posting need. ok well that's some of my opinion on it and jkd ok peace.

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#192236 - 10/29/05 04:53 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: etaks86]
JoelM Offline
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Quote:

i don't think any style made up a sidekick it's just always been existent




God said, "Let there be sidekicks"; and there were sidekicks. And God saw that the sidekicks were good
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#192237 - 10/29/05 08:34 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: JoelM]
JKogas Offline
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Just like no style "made up" punching or grappling or any form of anything else.

They were all around BEFORE "STYLES".


-John

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#192238 - 10/29/05 09:04 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: JKogas]
JoelM Offline
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But some "styles" have come to do them differently(more effectively?) than others.

yes?
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#192239 - 10/29/05 09:38 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: JoelM]
JKogas Offline
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Sure everyone does things a little differently. But sometimes that just means that they either do them a little better or a little worse, lol. Just like you were saying I believe...

Considering that we have only two arms and legs with so many joints, there are only so many different versions of "techniques" don't you think?

There is only one real style in my opinion (the "human style")


-John

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#192240 - 10/30/05 12:42 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: JoelM]
etaks86 Offline
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Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 161
I'm simply saying that people were punching, kicking, and blocking long before there was a such thing as a fixed style. The people always punched blocked and kicked it's natural instincts that your body has. for instance without any martial arts exp at all if someone came up to punch you and you knew they was going to your natural instinct would be to put your arms up in the way or better known as blocking. alot of so called technics i'm sure were used long before they were styles. there's just some movements which are natural and sort of instinctive for the human body. ok ttyl and peace

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#192241 - 10/30/05 04:09 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: etaks86]
JoelM Offline
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Makes complete sense, etaks. Just so you know I wasn't making fun of you, just that your choice of wording was kinda of funny and I made a joke out of it. I hope I did not offend you.
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#192242 - 10/30/05 06:58 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: JoelM]
etaks86 Offline
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Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 161
Well i didn't really know if you was making fun of me or not so i just figured that you wasn't. no worries i'm not offended at all. i just felt like posting again giving more of my prospective on the subject. but don't worry i'm not offended or anything like that sometimes i seem like i am argueing even when i am not i've always talked alot and i like to have a good conversation about almost anything. so no worries and see yall around.

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#192243 - 10/30/05 07:10 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: etaks86]
JoelM Offline
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#192244 - 10/31/05 06:21 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: JoelM]
Supremor Offline
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Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
JKD, influenced by TKD- swap the first letters and they're the same- so I'd say JKD is very influenced by TKD

I think Bruce Lee took parts from many different styles, but the side kick is very much a part of wing chun. There are different ways of performing the side kick- most karate styles execute it differently from TKD. However I think that Wing Chun and TKD have a very similar way of doing it.

I wouldn't dwell on "what style influenced Bruce Lee the most," because it's obiously Wing Chun- he was never formally trained in anything else. He took lots of things from other styles, but I think we all do that, non?

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#192245 - 11/01/05 04:54 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Supremor]
etaks86 Offline
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Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 161
Well i stick to my opinion that i don't believe jkd was influenced by tkd much at all if at all. and the letters being close to the same does not mean anything. the three letters that rep my name are the same as a insects name but i'm not a insect and my name didn't come from the insects name. it just happens to be alike.

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#192246 - 11/02/05 05:45 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: etaks86]
trevek Offline
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Some Chinese arts sometimes have high kicks, they are all over the place. Thing is, where TKD was probably influential for BL was in how to fight against it.

Incidentally, I was beaten up by a tape cassette recently, maybe it was doing TDK on me?
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#192247 - 11/16/05 10:15 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Supremor]
mike_p Offline
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Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 17
Bruce Lee taught his first US students in Seattle a mixture of techniques and forms from wing chun and other gung fu styles Lee had been exposed to in Hong Kong. His first students included judo men, boxers, and street fighters. Bruce was already practicing high kicks and gung fu forms which included high kicks before meeting Rhee or Norris. There is 1964 Long Beach footage of Bruce doing high kicks in a form. While there, he was very impressed by the kicking technique of shotokan's Nishiyama, and this influenced his development of side kicks. His higher kicks (more for demo, show, and film) were mainly influenced by northern gung fu and shotokan, not tae kwon do.

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#192248 - 11/17/05 11:10 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: mike_p]
Taison Offline
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Quote:

influenced by northern gung fu and shotokan, not tae kwon do.




I disagree. . . Firstly, BL was never impressed by Chinese Gong-fu, be it mainland or not. BL stated that kicking to the head, is like crouching down to punch the toes.

Quote:

he was very impressed by the kicking technique of shotokan's Nishiyama, and this influenced his development of side kicks.




Wrong. . do a sidekick, now. Did you have to learn it from someone? No. It's a natural thing BL just adopted to "stop-hit" oncoming opponents during their lunges. If he was to adopt it from someone, it would be Jhoon Rhee.

Quote:

There is 1964 Long Beach footage of Bruce doing high kicks in a form.




Jeet Kune Do = No Form, so what's with the form?

Quote:

wing chun and other gung fu styles Lee had been exposed to in Hong Kong.




I'm not so sure that he was "exposed" to other Gong-fu styles in Hong Kong excluding Wing-Chun, cuz you have to consider, Hong Kong is Canton area, so many northern styles wouldn't be so popular, and Hong Kong is an area surrounded by coasts, now when you have coasts you have boats, if you have boats, then how are you supposed to be able to balance if you do all the fancy stuff northern styles do? Wing Chun is thus the most preferred style in Hong Kong.

Quote:

Bruce was already practicing high kicks and gung fu forms which included high kicks before meeting Rhee or Norris




Was he? Then why did Norris and Rhee make such an effort to convince BL that high kicks were effective? I thought he started practicing them after he sparred with Rhee and Norris?

That's just my fifty cent's cuz somethings you said, I can't say I 100% agree with them, and especially the part you said BL practiced an IMA, which I believe is 100% crap as a. Southern Chinese aren't very fond of Chi training, b. BL already knew and detested Chi training as he thought "you find firmness in motion, not in stillness" thus "squatting in a horse-stance for 4 years before moving is ridiculous". I think he was more fond of the western arts like boxing, Greco-Roman wrestling and Fencing.

Back to the topic, Yes, BL's JKD had element's of Rhee's TKD not Korean TKD. So you can say, it's a bit of a mixture.

-Taison out
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#192249 - 11/18/05 08:38 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Taison]
Supremor Offline
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Quote:

Quote:


he was very impressed by the kicking technique of shotokan's Nishiyama, and this influenced his development of side kicks.




Wrong. . do a sidekick, now. Did you have to learn it from someone? No. It's a natural thing BL just adopted to "stop-hit" oncoming opponents during their lunges. If he was to adopt it from someone, it would be Jhoon Rhee.




I disagree, whenever I teach people a side kick at my class, it takes them a long time to even understand how the kick works. It is certainly not a natural action because of the unnatural body mechanics and the use of the hips for power production.

I have to say though, that I think wing cbun is the influence for the side-kick and that TKD just made Lee kick it a bit higher sometimes (i.e. in the movies!). The wing chun and Chang-hon side-kicks are almost indistinguishable IMO, so it is a very difficult question to answer definitively.

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#192250 - 11/18/05 09:45 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Taison]
mike_p Offline
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Taison, perhaps you would be interested in some facts about Bruce Lee. He was originally very impressed with gung fu, and wrote about how he felt (at the time) it was the supreme form of martial art, the forerunner of arts like jujitsu and karate. This is verified in his book "Chinese Gung Fu the Philosophical Art of Self Defense" as well as a thesis about gung fu he wrote during school in Seattle. It is available in current books and on-line, you can do some research on it. Bruce also spoke well of gung fu in his filmed interview/screen test for the Green Hornet show. According to Bruce Lee's first students (Jesse Glover, Ed Hart, Leroy Garcia, Skip Ellsworth, Taky Kimura, Jim Demile, and others) Bruce taught them forms and techniques from a variety of gung fu styles in addition to wing chun, although wing chun was his core art. They did these forms in photographed Seattle demonstrations in the early 1960s. He originally felt that forms held the key to gung fu mastery, but later completely changed his opinion about forms and classical gung fu. If you haven't seen the 1964 film of Bruce doing a form with high kicks at the Long Beach tournament (prior to creation of jkd), then you don't know what you are talking about. Bruce did high gung fu kicks, but originally didn't think they were effective for combat. According to his his first student and assistant instructor Jesse Glover, Bruce really developed his side kick after seeing Nishiyama's kick control at Long Beach. Bruce had bad ankles but eventually learned to hold his side kick extended and apply it with explosive force. According to Norris and Rhee they did share opinions about high kicks with Bruce, I am sure he considered their opinions. He later developed effective high kicks. He still stated to his students that ultimately, hands were superior to kicks in an actual fight. Students like Dan Inosanto have stated that the kicks Bruce developed later were applied differently than in tae kwon do. Also different than most wing chun side kicks because of his ankle problems. Most wing chun practitioners do a sort of 45 degree side kick (exhibited in the dummy form.) Leung Ting wing tsun practitioners sometimes exhibit a karate/tae kwon do style side kick. If you would like some accurate information about Lee, you should go to his students. Jesse Glover wrote an excellent book entitled "Bruce Lee Between Wing Chun and Jeet Kune Do" which is very helpful and discredits some of the misinformation about Bruce that goes around. Best wishes.

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#192251 - 11/18/05 12:55 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Taison]
MattJ Offline
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Taison, you display an impressive lack of knowledge about BL.

Quote:

I disagree. . . Firstly, BL was never impressed by Chinese Gong-fu, be it mainland or not. BL stated that kicking to the head, is like crouching down to punch the toes.




Never impressed with Chinese arts? That is interesting, as most of his "core arts" for JKD were in fact Chinese arts.

Quote:

Wrong. . do a sidekick, now. Did you have to learn it from someone? No. It's a natural thing BL just adopted to "stop-hit" oncoming opponents during their lunges. If he was to adopt it from someone, it would be Jhoon Rhee.




Supremor is correct. During my time as a full time instructor, I can verify that the sidekick is not a "natural" movement at all, and is one of the more difficult kicks for beginners to learn.

Quote:

Jeet Kune Do = No Form, so what's with the form?




Oy vey. I have also seen very old footage of Bruce Lee doing animal style forms on a screen test. Don't confuse his later rejection of forms with the idea that he never learned any.

Quote:

Was he? Then why did Norris and Rhee make such an effort to convince BL that high kicks were effective? I thought he started practicing them after he sparred with Rhee and Norris?




Again, there is video evidence of BL doing high kicks form before he met Chuck Norris or Jhoon Rhee. High kicks are well known in many Chinese styles.

While there may be some TKD influence, most of the kicking repetoire taught in JKD comes from either Savate or Muay Thai.
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#192252 - 11/19/05 09:05 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: MattJ]
trevek Offline
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Am I correct in my thought that BL originally studied the rudiments of Tai Chi? It would seem strange that a person who studied in form based training such as traditional WC, TC etc would dispense with them automatically when he started teaching (meaning he didn't).

Anyway, certain styles of TC also contain kicks, including a quite high crescent kick in some forms.
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#192253 - 11/19/05 04:23 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: trevek]
elmastero1 Offline
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From my reading. Bruce Lee learned Tai Chi under his dad. He later went on to learn Wing Chun under Yip Man but his instruction in the art was mostly learned directly under his senior Wong Shun Leung. He also studied Northern kung fu styles from other people, which do have high/flashy type kicks.

I'm sure that Chuck Norris (Tang Soo Do) and Jhoon Rhee (Tae Kwon Do), both Korean trained martial artist also influenced Bruce Lee in training above the waist kicks. Many of which he showcased in his films.

Although, from a fighting standpoint Bruce Lee felt that kicks should be kept below the waist. He also stated that he desired to be able to kick to any target if he needed to. But since the subject of the topic is "JKD influenced by TKD". I would have to say no.

JKD's kicks, as taught by most OBLS' are still kept below the waist. They're not teaching jump spinning hook kicks in their classes, like in TKD. In JKD it's all about simplicity and non-telegraphic techniques. JKD kicks aren't even chambered like they are in Karate or TKD. So to state that TKD had an influence on JKD is incorrect. They may have had an influence on Bruce Lee learning a few more above the waist kicks that he didn't already have from Northern Kung Fu styles but they were primarily used for movie purposes and didn't influence his art of JKD.

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#192254 - 11/19/05 04:33 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: elmastero1]
trevek Offline
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That is a very interesting and informative reply, thanks.
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#192255 - 11/20/05 08:57 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: trevek]
Taison Offline
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Ok folks, my bad. . Sorry

Quote:

Taison, you display an impressive lack of knowledge about BL.




Damn I like that sentence.

Thanks for the info, though.

-Taison out


Edited by Taison (11/20/05 09:00 PM)
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#192256 - 12/19/05 04:38 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: elmastero1]
trevek Offline
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Apparently Lee also studied Savate according to Jesse Glover
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#192257 - 02/07/06 12:56 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: mike_p]
wonphi Offline
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Registered: 02/06/06
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and he studied tam tui. a chinese art that solely concentrates on kicking.
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#192258 - 02/07/06 02:17 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: wonphi]
TeK9 Offline
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Did he study formally under a qualified instructor or did he study it from a book he bought? I mean his library on MA and health books is legendary. Books that are no longer in print but written by some real experts back in the day.
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#192259 - 02/07/06 07:54 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: wonphi]
MattJ Offline
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Quote:

and he studied tam tui. a chinese art that solely concentrates on kicking.




Wonphi -

Do you have any sources for that? I have never heard of that style.
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#192260 - 02/07/06 08:45 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: MattJ]
Ayub Offline
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Registered: 11/26/04
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Quote:

Quote:

and he studied tam tui. a chinese art that solely concentrates on kicking.




Wonphi -

Do you have any sources for that? I have never heard of that style.





It was Dan Inosanto that narrated BL had studied several sets of Tam Tui (never knew how to spell that before) before coming to the US. If you google it you find several articles on it, called 'spring leg' its a base for Northern Shaolin styles. I guess his high kicking must have been influenced by this too. Good one Wonphi!


Edited by Ayub (02/07/06 10:54 AM)
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#192261 - 02/07/06 10:24 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Ayub]
MattJ Offline
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Here is a link with info on Tam Tui -

http://www.chin-woo.com/whatis.html
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#192262 - 02/07/06 05:30 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Ayub]
wonphi Offline
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Registered: 02/06/06
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oh thanks guys, i just thought you guys forgot to mention it.
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#192263 - 03/12/06 07:14 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: MattJ]
Armed_Man_Piker Offline
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Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 440
Loc: East Coast U.S.A.
Quote:

Never impressed with Chinese arts? That is interesting, as most of his "core arts" for JKD were in fact Chinese arts.




"Most"?

Was not JKD initially based in Wing Chun, Western boxing, & Western fencing?

And the grappling Lee learned was judo and catch-as-catch-can wrestling (via Gene LeBell)--no Chinese arts at all.
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#192264 - 03/12/06 07:37 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Armed_Man_Piker]
MattJ Offline
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AMP -

Yes, "most".

I wish I could find the list. Bruce Lee supposedly wrought JKD out of 26 different martial arts, with the majority (16-18?) being Chinese. Paul Vunak has mentioned them before in interviews, and had them posted in some of his old ads, but I can't seem to find them. If I find the list, I will post it.

However, if you and Taison are refering to the relative amount of weight given to a given art in the JKD "syllabus", then I would agree that the non-Chinese arts (with the exception of Wing Chun) were held in somewhat higher regard by BL.

I am still very skeptical of TKD's influence on JKD.
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#192265 - 03/12/06 08:49 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: MattJ]
wristtwister Offline
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Registered: 02/14/06
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Loc: South Carolina
I don't think any of us can backtrack and read Bruce Lee's mind about the different arts he infused into JKD. One of his students, Larry Hartsell, lives in Charlotte, about 100 miles from me, and when it's convenient to visit him, I'll ask him about it.

From watching what Bruce Lee did in his movies, a lot of what people think are "spin kicks" aren't, and from watching his technique in films, I would seriously doubt if TKD had much of an influence. I studied TKD with an Asian champion in it, and not much of what Bruce Lee did looks like anything we did, other than kicking high.

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#192266 - 03/12/06 11:14 PM why the race but not the country? [Re: wristtwister]
kusojiji Offline
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Quote:

I studied TKD with an Asian champion in it, and not much of what Bruce Lee did looks like anything we did, other than kicking high.






"Asian"? ??????????????????
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#192267 - 03/13/06 07:19 AM Re: why the race but not the country? [Re: kusojiji]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Wasn't referring to race. Billy Hong was Korean. He was all-Asian Tae Kwon Do champion in 1966 and 67. Asian, as in the continent...

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#192268 - 03/15/06 09:56 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Ayub]
wonphi Offline
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Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10
wing chun is chinese, tam tui is chinese as well he learned another martial arts from a chinese master that i seem to have forgotten, but yes MOST was chinese arts, with some Western philosophy and technique.
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#192269 - 03/16/06 09:02 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: MattJ]
Armed_Man_Piker Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 440
Loc: East Coast U.S.A.
Quote:

AMP -

Yes, "most".

I wish I could find the list. Bruce Lee supposedly wrought JKD out of 26 different martial arts, with the majority (16-18?) being Chinese. Paul Vunak has mentioned them before in interviews, and had them posted in some of his old ads, but I can't seem to find them. If I find the list, I will post it.

However, if you and Taison are refering to the relative amount of weight given to a given art in the JKD "syllabus", then I would agree that the non-Chinese arts (with the exception of Wing Chun) were held in somewhat higher regard by BL.




Yeah, well, that's what I thought.

And, because of that, I submit to everyone here that for anyone to claim that JKD is mostly CMA-derived is TOTALLY misleading. According to John Little in Martial Arts Talk, Bruce Lee wrote a letter to student James Lee in 1965, where he stated that he was working on his "own system", which was essentially "a combination of wing chun, fencing, and Western boxing".

Lee's fighting notes, posthumously published as The Tao of Jeet Kune Do, reveal a strong fencing and boxing influence, and his section on grappling contains various throws, takedowns, and submission holds from judo and CACC wrestling, which Lee studied, under LeBell.
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