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#192240 - 10/30/05 12:42 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: JoelM]
etaks86 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 161
I'm simply saying that people were punching, kicking, and blocking long before there was a such thing as a fixed style. The people always punched blocked and kicked it's natural instincts that your body has. for instance without any martial arts exp at all if someone came up to punch you and you knew they was going to your natural instinct would be to put your arms up in the way or better known as blocking. alot of so called technics i'm sure were used long before they were styles. there's just some movements which are natural and sort of instinctive for the human body. ok ttyl and peace

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#192241 - 10/30/05 04:09 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: etaks86]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Makes complete sense, etaks. Just so you know I wasn't making fun of you, just that your choice of wording was kinda of funny and I made a joke out of it. I hope I did not offend you.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#192242 - 10/30/05 06:58 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: JoelM]
etaks86 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 161
Well i didn't really know if you was making fun of me or not so i just figured that you wasn't. no worries i'm not offended at all. i just felt like posting again giving more of my prospective on the subject. but don't worry i'm not offended or anything like that sometimes i seem like i am argueing even when i am not i've always talked alot and i like to have a good conversation about almost anything. so no worries and see yall around.

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#192243 - 10/30/05 07:10 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: etaks86]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA

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#192244 - 10/31/05 06:21 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: JoelM]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
JKD, influenced by TKD- swap the first letters and they're the same- so I'd say JKD is very influenced by TKD

I think Bruce Lee took parts from many different styles, but the side kick is very much a part of wing chun. There are different ways of performing the side kick- most karate styles execute it differently from TKD. However I think that Wing Chun and TKD have a very similar way of doing it.

I wouldn't dwell on "what style influenced Bruce Lee the most," because it's obiously Wing Chun- he was never formally trained in anything else. He took lots of things from other styles, but I think we all do that, non?

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#192245 - 11/01/05 04:54 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Supremor]
etaks86 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 161
Well i stick to my opinion that i don't believe jkd was influenced by tkd much at all if at all. and the letters being close to the same does not mean anything. the three letters that rep my name are the same as a insects name but i'm not a insect and my name didn't come from the insects name. it just happens to be alike.

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#192246 - 11/02/05 05:45 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: etaks86]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Some Chinese arts sometimes have high kicks, they are all over the place. Thing is, where TKD was probably influential for BL was in how to fight against it.

Incidentally, I was beaten up by a tape cassette recently, maybe it was doing TDK on me?
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

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#192247 - 11/16/05 10:15 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Supremor]
mike_p Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 17
Bruce Lee taught his first US students in Seattle a mixture of techniques and forms from wing chun and other gung fu styles Lee had been exposed to in Hong Kong. His first students included judo men, boxers, and street fighters. Bruce was already practicing high kicks and gung fu forms which included high kicks before meeting Rhee or Norris. There is 1964 Long Beach footage of Bruce doing high kicks in a form. While there, he was very impressed by the kicking technique of shotokan's Nishiyama, and this influenced his development of side kicks. His higher kicks (more for demo, show, and film) were mainly influenced by northern gung fu and shotokan, not tae kwon do.

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#192248 - 11/17/05 11:10 PM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: mike_p]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

influenced by northern gung fu and shotokan, not tae kwon do.




I disagree. . . Firstly, BL was never impressed by Chinese Gong-fu, be it mainland or not. BL stated that kicking to the head, is like crouching down to punch the toes.

Quote:

he was very impressed by the kicking technique of shotokan's Nishiyama, and this influenced his development of side kicks.




Wrong. . do a sidekick, now. Did you have to learn it from someone? No. It's a natural thing BL just adopted to "stop-hit" oncoming opponents during their lunges. If he was to adopt it from someone, it would be Jhoon Rhee.

Quote:

There is 1964 Long Beach footage of Bruce doing high kicks in a form.




Jeet Kune Do = No Form, so what's with the form?

Quote:

wing chun and other gung fu styles Lee had been exposed to in Hong Kong.




I'm not so sure that he was "exposed" to other Gong-fu styles in Hong Kong excluding Wing-Chun, cuz you have to consider, Hong Kong is Canton area, so many northern styles wouldn't be so popular, and Hong Kong is an area surrounded by coasts, now when you have coasts you have boats, if you have boats, then how are you supposed to be able to balance if you do all the fancy stuff northern styles do? Wing Chun is thus the most preferred style in Hong Kong.

Quote:

Bruce was already practicing high kicks and gung fu forms which included high kicks before meeting Rhee or Norris




Was he? Then why did Norris and Rhee make such an effort to convince BL that high kicks were effective? I thought he started practicing them after he sparred with Rhee and Norris?

That's just my fifty cent's cuz somethings you said, I can't say I 100% agree with them, and especially the part you said BL practiced an IMA, which I believe is 100% crap as a. Southern Chinese aren't very fond of Chi training, b. BL already knew and detested Chi training as he thought "you find firmness in motion, not in stillness" thus "squatting in a horse-stance for 4 years before moving is ridiculous". I think he was more fond of the western arts like boxing, Greco-Roman wrestling and Fencing.

Back to the topic, Yes, BL's JKD had element's of Rhee's TKD not Korean TKD. So you can say, it's a bit of a mixture.

-Taison out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#192249 - 11/18/05 08:38 AM Re: JKD influenced by TKD? [Re: Taison]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:

Quote:


he was very impressed by the kicking technique of shotokan's Nishiyama, and this influenced his development of side kicks.




Wrong. . do a sidekick, now. Did you have to learn it from someone? No. It's a natural thing BL just adopted to "stop-hit" oncoming opponents during their lunges. If he was to adopt it from someone, it would be Jhoon Rhee.




I disagree, whenever I teach people a side kick at my class, it takes them a long time to even understand how the kick works. It is certainly not a natural action because of the unnatural body mechanics and the use of the hips for power production.

I have to say though, that I think wing cbun is the influence for the side-kick and that TKD just made Lee kick it a bit higher sometimes (i.e. in the movies!). The wing chun and Chang-hon side-kicks are almost indistinguishable IMO, so it is a very difficult question to answer definitively.

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