Fair enough. However, Neko456's quote was taken out of context. He said, and I quote:

Quote:

---

Hapkido is like TKD, Aikido and Jujitsu combined...

---

This is quite different to saying "Hapkido is like TKD".

A fine point, but a distinct difference nonetheless...

I'd say Hapkido is more like Kyokushin Karate or traditional Kung Fu.

I teach jumping, turning crescent kicks, though I do inform my students of what is practical and what is only meant to improve their strength, coordination and agility...I also do have TKD background though this was military TKD and thus tended to limit the acrobatics.

I'd say Hapkido is more like Kyokushin Karate or traditional Kung Fu.

Now we are starting to sound like the blind men examining elephant. Your version of Hapkido may look like Kyokushin-kai or Kung-fu but most Hapikido that I've seen had more in common with Mukdokwan-do, & Aiki-Jujits as its origin suggest. I venture to say that Tkd has more in common with Kyokushin-kia then Hapkido. They are both competitive base systems that stress sparring, rules are almost the same in regards to kicking (less combos kicks & jumping in KK) and no punching head contact in Olympic TKD. Of course there some difference in inside fighting. Hapkido that I'm familiar with donot spar they stress self defense and drills kicking flow drills. Aiki-jujits counters and they strike/punch to the head.

Hapkido is like Hapkido its unqiue into its self, thats why its not called Kul-soo or TKD or Kung-fu. Kul-Soo reminds me of internal Hapkido some. Now I have the elephant by the tail you obvious feel it by holding its trunk. Same thing just different ends.

"Here's a version of Kotegaeshi which is widely practiced in very much the same way:
http://aikido-france.net/download.php?video=aikido-iwama-kotegaeshi-franziska.mpg

Note the "overt striking". Also note the ever so subtle hip movement at the end of the throw (not that you can see Saito's hips clearly), but the sword cut across uke's chest is there. It's not obvious from the vid, but I think Saito was being "gentle". The other one with his son is a little more obvious, but still very subtle nonetheless...
http://aikido-france.net/download.php?video=aikido-iwama-kotegaeshi-munadori-hs.avi

This is what I mean - the overt striking is not what one should be looking for - that's OK for "basics". It is the implied strikes that is really the key.

Sorry for the long (and somewhat off-topic post). In a frail attempt to bring it back on track, KiDoHae, even though hapkido shares some basic techniques with aikido, and when you've had a look at some of these, perhaps you could share with us, what some of the more subtle differences are between the 2 arts?" Eyrie

Eyrie,

I thought I would just hazard to also give my reaction to your post.

I am in complete agreement that many schools of aikido employ strikes however I think that it is fair to say that they manifest themselves differently.

Here is one school of hapkido that is often claimed to be closest to Daito-ryu. Having trained in Daito ryu in Kansai, I don't find it so, but it is representative of hapkido.

http://www.jungkikwan.com/

click on "movies"

There are quite a few clips in the first grouping including some short bits of Choi Yong Sul.( Hapkido's Founder.)

I think that when I watch Saito-sensei performing I am never under the impression for a moment that he is a hapkido practitioner. Watching these hapkido videos I never have the impression that I am watching either aikido or Daito-ryu. While they may all come from the same root I think it is clear that, as they are currently practised, they all have their own flavour, or indelible stamp to them.

I think hapkido tends toward less complex footwork and more direct attacks against the joint done in a more abrupt manner. The striking is often the main course rather than an assistant to kuzushi. The hope of the jointlock is often the immediate break rather than the resulting throw.

I don't think any of the 3 arts are superior to any of the others but I do feel they prioritize different goals and move differently.

When I watch Saito-sensei doing kotegaeshi I instantly recognize it as aikido and not Daito-ryu or hapkido. It has the 'stamp'of aikido on it. More steps, creating greater and longer unbalancing, different angle at which point the balance is taken and becomes a throw. And this is as it should be. Aikido is its own art, as are the others.

I think you will find equally when you watch the hapkido-ists you will not feel like you are watching what could be one of your buddies in the aikido dojo. Not better, or worse, but not the same.

Well, you might not like it as much! But then again Sri Lankans often don't care for Indian food. It tastes like their own food made'incorrectly'.

Good post Matthew.

I have seen hapkido in the past. It was good to be reminded of the stylistic differences. Fundamentally, and principle-wise, there is very little difference in kote-gaeshi or wakigatame. They only work in certain ways, against a joint or against the natural folds and bends.

Nice to see the smaller circles, more direct attacks against joints, and striking with kokyu power.

Yes, same roots, different flavour. Nice!

h2whoa,

Quote:

---

I am skeptical of any school that teaches high kicks and call itself HKD.

---

I do TKD and HKD, and I get the impression that a wide range of kicks, including high kicks, are the ‘signature’ of the Korean martial arts. The kicks are not necessarily practical for self-defence situations, but they good exercise nonetheless!

That being said, I believe some jujitsu styles incorporate high kicks and jumping kicks (Tobe Geri). Given that Hapkido is based on jujitsu and influenced by native Korean arts (including the kicking art Taekyon) it seems reasonable to me that it should include a lot of kicks. The kicks are not necessarily the same as the Taekwondo ones either – in my experience they are quite different.

But they both still taste good!

Geoffrey Booth is reported to be a pretty good hapkido practitioner 'down under'. He has some mpegs on his site which may be of interest. He belongs to the Australian Hapkido Group or some such named association. You might find the approach to kick defense interesting as it is something less concentrated on in aikido than hapkido ... for obvious reasons!

Here's the link:
http://hapkido.netro.com.au/Main_files/page0005.htm

Obviously you will find lots of techniques in common as well. But I would also say that you'll find some variation of wakagatame and kote gaeshi in virtually every school of jujutsu and most schools of kung fu which employ chin na as well. I guess they must work!

I just opened my e-mail and look what I found a link to. Speaking of kick defense:

http://www.turtlepress.com/Hapkido_Self_Defense_1_DVD_p/dvd-hkd6.htm

I love the one where the guy turns right over in midair.

These two arts share the same three Chinese characters in the spelling of their names and their ties to Diato Ryu Aiki-Jutsu. This is where the similarities end.

A Comparison between Korean Hap Ki Do and Japanese Aikido


Korean Hapkido
-Techniques are done with small circular motions, to fast complete conclusions. Some Kicking is practiced.

Japanese Aikido
-Techniques use large, fluid circles, and wider motions, with much more graceful steps.
______________________________________________________________________________________

Korean Hapkido
-In practice, attacks are performed with sharp precision at full power.

Japanese Aikido
-Attacks tend to be softer, fluid, and stylized.
______________________________________________________________________________________

Korean Hapkido
-Use of mushim [no mind] as the YongSa faced the sword, turning defense into offense.

Japanese Aikido
-Techniques are designed to neutralize an attack and control it.
______________________________________________________________________________________

Korean Hapkido
-Techniques are designed to cripple or kill. Control is used according to the circumstances.

Japanese Aikido
-The defender blends with the attack to neutralize it without injuring the attacker.
______________________________________________________________________________________

Korean Hapkido
-Good NokBeop [break-falling] is required for the harder and completed technique.

Japanese Aikido
-Good Ukemi is necessary, but not critical. Many techniques can be used safely as uke blends with the throw.
______________________________________________________________________________________

Korean Hapkido
-Pressure point knowledge is necessary. Techniques make great use of pain. Strikes are frequent.

Japanese Aikido
-Pain is applied with restraint, in small doses. Strikes taught to some degree, but is discouraged.
______________________________________________________________________________________

Korean Hapkido
-Discipline, harmony, faithfulness and austerity are emphasized, with respect for Hapkido.

Japanese Aikido
-Emphasis on peace, love, harmony, friendship, and Aikido precepts, as taught by Morihei Ueshiba.