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#191120 - 10/04/05 05:25 PM Is there a difference in the JKD concept and JKD..
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Is there a difference in the JKD concept and JKD inter circle method of training. Its said that Guru Dan Insanto is JKD concept and the other senior students outside or inside Guru Dans group maintain the inter circle ideas.

Whats the real deal? Is there any technical difference. Whose the most innovative and update? Who is JKD's senior teacher certified or not? Who certifies the instructors a board or a person?
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#191121 - 10/05/05 10:38 AM Re: Is there a difference in the JKD concept and JKD.. [Re: Neko456]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
there is a difference. The idea is to learn the things that these instructors are teaching us and then to apply the jkd concept to what we've learned. The concept being an attempt to use our body to the best of it's ability to overcome an opponent. The methods of teaching are seen as a platform or foundation from which we can explore and expand. There is a basic curriculum that Bruce Lee thought important enough to teach to everyone. We practise this until we know what we're doing and have learned all the pinciples, then we make the rest of the journey to becoming the best we can possibly be on our own. If we aren't taught the foundations, then ultimately, we will still arrive at the exact same point and fight in the exact same manner, its just that learning the basics thoroughly will greatly speed us along.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#191122 - 10/05/05 07:39 PM Re: Is there a difference in the JKD concept and JKD.. [Re: jkdwarrior]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
It's all POLITICS! Don't get overly hung-up trying to analize the differences between organizations. People enjoy arguing about these alleged differences what is MORE important is the training.

What many don't understand is that the "Jun Fan gung fu" (origian JKD) is TAUGHT at many if not most JKD CONCEPT schools (such as Dan Inosanto's school).

JKD for the most part is complete garbage however (how it's often being trained). Again, don't get too hung-up over these political organizations.


-John

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#191123 - 10/06/05 11:38 AM Re: Is there a difference in the JKD concept and JKD.. [Re: JKogas]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
From what I hear an see is JKD concept is leaning more toward Filapino or Kaila/Silat like arts, its true that the to teach some of the old JKD methods as a base but are guided by their leader lead. There delivery is more like Kaila/Silat but can do it all. Guru Dan, Ted Luckyucy students, Paul Vunaks,Larry Hartsell, Rick Faye, & Burton Richardson.

The JKD inner circle or original group each stress different strengths but as a hold still teach WC as a base instead of a part of the cirricullum, its the nucleus and they lean more toward Kicking boxing or Thai-boxing in delivery but can do the Kaila or WC infighting. Ted Wong, Jerry Poteet, Mark Stewart, and Gray Dill.

Then you got the guys in the middle like Dr. Beasley and Joe Lewis that seem to be in the middle like Sensei Beasely and Sensei Lewis more kickboxing/karate with JKD fakes and footwork? Obviously its pending your base system.
So its not all political you actually see what they perfer to do. All do some form of grapplng some strees it.

Its not all Politics its perference to a method of delivery IMHO, it exist even in JKD.
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#191124 - 10/07/05 11:11 AM Re: Is there a difference in the JKD concept and JKD.. [Re: Neko456]
ToddR Offline
Member

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 148
Loc: York, PA
I studied under one of Rick Faye's students and he had a strong emphasis in muay thai and other kickboxing styles, and they trained some WC as part of their jun fan curriculum but I wouldn't say WC was their base.

This is probably a naive assumption since I don't have a ton of experience with JKD but I thought "JKD" essentially referred to the philosophy of "take what works and discard what doesn't work" and that "Jun Fan gung fu" referred to the actual techniques that Bruce Lee was developing that incorporated everything from WC to fencing to boxing to the filipino martial arts. Is that not true?

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#191125 - 10/07/05 05:24 PM Re: Is there a difference in the JKD concept and JKD.. [Re: ToddR]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Quote:


This is probably a naive assumption since I don't have a ton of experience with JKD but I thought "JKD" essentially referred to the philosophy of "take what works and discard what doesn't work" and that "Jun Fan gung fu" referred to the actual techniques that Bruce Lee was developing that incorporated everything from WC to fencing to boxing to the filipino martial arts. Is that not true?



It is true but he didn't take them exactly as they were. He modified them to make them more effective. For example, using a boxing cross. He uses essentially the same technique, but he keeps the elbows in and down more and throws it with the fist vertical most of the time. This makes it a lot harder to see coming (Check it out for yourself in a mirror).
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#191126 - 10/07/05 06:22 PM Re: Is there a difference in the JKD concept and JKD.. [Re: jkdwarrior]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Also consider:

JKD is the PERSONAL expression of the "truth in combat". It's also about the discovery of this through sparring.
Your JKD will be different than Bruce Lee's JKD (or should be).

As for throwing the cross (or ANY punching for that matter), I don't prefer to throw vertical punches BECAUSE the elbows are down. If the elbow is down, the shoulder is ALSO down and leaving you WIDE OPEN for counter strikes.


-John

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#191127 - 10/08/05 01:21 AM Re: Is there a difference in the JKD concept and JKD.. [Re: Neko456]
jta175 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 2
Hello. I trained with Richard Bustillo for about 4 years. He is one of Bruce Lee's original students. He does not teach much of the original JKD. The main emphasis on his training is Muay Thai, Western Boxing and Jiujitsu. He also places some emphasis on on Kali/Escrima/Arnis but not nearly as much as the Muay Thai/Boxing. He shows very little Wing Chun to his students. I would Classify Sifu Bustillo as a "Concepts" approach JKD man. He will take certain concepts from what he learned from Bruce Lee (Such as broken rhythm, simultaneous defense & offense, intercepting your opponent, etc) and show you how to apply them to Muay Thai. He believes that JKD is self learning and self expression through sparring.
I also trained very briefly under Sifu Mark Stewart in original JKD. Sifu Stewart is a student of Sifu Ted Wong. As I understand it, Ted Wong was the last private student and a good friend of Bruce Lee. I must tell you that the "original" JKD was, to me, very different from the "concept" JKD. The basic stance was different. The kicks I learned there were very different from Muay Thai type kicks (but in my opinion, just as effective).
I enjoyed both types of training. I saw strengths and weaknesses to both types.

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#191128 - 10/08/05 09:08 AM Re: Is there a difference in the JKD concept and JKD.. [Re: JKogas]
ToddR Offline
Member

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 148
Loc: York, PA
Yeah, my JKD is A LOT different than Bruce Lee's! (slower, weaker...)
Good point though, I love the idea of creating a style all one's own based on your strengths and weaknesses. I've known musicians that apply the "Tao of JKD" to their musical style--they take what's best from a variety of genres and methods and try to create a style that's uniquely their own. Easier said than done, though!

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#191129 - 10/13/05 03:12 PM Re: Is there a difference in the JKD concept and JKD.. [Re: JKogas]
Fluid_Motion Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 37
John, that's why I spend my time training as opposed to posting often on message boards. If I do post however, it's only to point people to JKD training; nothing more, nothing less. Well, with the exception of my usual tongue and cheek rhetoric thrown around.
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