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#190185 - 09/30/05 11:16 PM Doubtful. effectiveness.. plz help
TKDFighter89 Offline

Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 85
I've been hearing a LOT ( i mean alot) of things about how TKD is now just a sport and an INEFFECTIVE martial art, that TKD cannot be used in a fight. i wanted to start martial arts for the martial art/fighting aspects, not the sports. I am already a 2nd dan and I feel i've spent too much tiem in tkd to switch now to another martial art. So which is it? Is it effective in a fight or not? Is TKD just another cheap sport? Should i switch to somethign like muay thai if im looking for a MARTIAL art? Need guidance. Thanks

#190186 - 10/01/05 01:04 AM Re: Doubtful. effectiveness.. plz help [Re: TKDFighter89]
whitetiger Offline

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 40
If you are a 2nd dan, then you should have no doubt of TKD's effectiveness. It takes a while to achieve 2nd dan and if you train like we do at my dojo, then you would be absoultely certain. Every dojo trains differently and it basically comes down to this, if people train like it means very little to them, then they will perform accordingly. If you train like you are mad at the world, then it will show in your performance. You get out what you put in. People are very critical of TKD for some reason, but it is what it is just like bjj is what it is. TKD is not the fix-all for the martial arts world. It is only a small part of it. All arts focus on different things and none of them are "The Martial Art". If we as martial artists want to train like sissys, then that's what we will be. If we train to gain knowledge of any particular art and to be good at it, then eventually we will be good at it. Doubting is your first mistake. Believe in what you do and train like every day was your last. There is no sport side to traditional TKD but there is in olympic style TKD if that's how we want to look at it. But first and foremost, TKD is not a sport IMHO. Even though you have spent aolt of time in TKD, that does'nt mean that you can't start another style to supplement it. I train in three different styles and I absolutely love it. Try something else, sure. But don't stop training in TKD. Thats my advice. Good luck.

#190187 - 10/01/05 02:39 AM Re: Doubtful. effectiveness.. plz help [Re: TKDFighter89]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA

If you would be so kind as to indulge me, I would like to know how long you have practiced and how old you are? I am trying to figure out what made you think of your art as somehow unsuitable and why you think you must force yourself into training only TKD if you are questioning it. These questions are not aimed in some malign way, just curious.

TKD like any art has many different faces depending on the instructor and school. So how one trains is important, but also how the art speaks to one. I belive not all arts and not all folk are suitable for all arts.

Some folk are better in certain arts for pychological and physical reasons. Choices are always necessary when searching for what fits you.

If you have questions, either experience or insight is bringing something to the surface. In either case, few people can help you and ultimately it will be you who decides the merit of your own training.

So good luck, but I would certianly like to know a little about why you have questions...again, this is not necessarily a bad thing.

Finding something that fits you for training is what you should strive for.


#190188 - 10/01/05 04:43 AM Re: Doubtful. effectiveness.. plz help [Re: butterfly]
paradoxbox Offline

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
If you are doubting your own effectiveness then you have not trained hard enough up until this point.

Train harder. It's not the art, it's the person. Any decent art can be trained to effectiveness. TKD is certainly decent enough. At nidan you ought to be good enough to feel confident in your abilities.

Start picking up any slack you've left in your training and just train as hard as you possibly (and safely) can from this point on.

#190189 - 10/01/05 06:17 AM Re: Doubtful. effectiveness.. plz help [Re: paradoxbox]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK

If you are doubting your own effectiveness then you have not trained hard enough up until this point.

I don't think doubt means that at all. Even the best MAists sometimes have doubts about what they're doing.

TKDFighter, I think the response you are getting from the forum, is due to the way you asked your questions. Just because we would not rely on our skills in a "street fight" or other, does not mean that we do not think our art is useful for SD and fighting purposes. All it means, is that we view our TKD as an advantage in a fight, not the only means to the end.

As WhiteTiger says, cross-training can be very useful for understanding your own art better. It may indeed show you just how useful TKD is, when you see ways to approach situations which are different from the way your new art would respond to it.

You are second dan now, and I'm sure that means you are a very capable MAist, and easily able to take up another MA. However, TKD is still perfectly useful and valid as a fighting art.

I train in Chang Hon TKD, and my school and association really plays down any sport aspect of the MA. There are national, European and World championships, but no other competitions in the year. Therefore, we are mostly training to defend ourselves, rather than to score points. So I would certainly not support the view that TKD is just a sport MA.

#190190 - 10/01/05 07:55 AM Re: Doubtful. effectiveness.. plz help [Re: Supremor]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
On the "street" people punch and occasionally kick too. TKD teaches kicking and punching. Apart from subtle differences, TKD's kicking and punching are much the same as any other striking arts. Think: fist -> target, foot -> target. Ultimately it's all the same deal. Regardless of whether you jab or backfist someone to the chin, they will feel it just the same. We all know that on the "street", thinking about what technique to use is impossible because you're working on reflex. The point is to get that fist to their chin fast, how you go about doing that is unimportant in an SD situation. There are only so many ways to get your fist -> target and foot -> target, TKD doesn't teach them all but the effect is the same.

One thing TKD is certainly lacking (in general, there are exceptions) is grappling. Training in a grappling art will vastly improve your overall ability to defend yourself because it's something you probably know nothing about. Grappling is TKD's blind spot. If you insist on quitting TKD, you might want to think about what your SD style is missing.
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#190191 - 10/01/05 08:59 AM Re: Doubtful. effectiveness.. plz help [Re: Leo_E_49]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Is this a problem with your particular club? Does it predominantly train in sport sparring? maybe ask the sabum, or a group of your friends, if it is possible to train in a way which focusses more on 'real' application.

I think cross-training in MT is a great idea. Many top MT guys have trained in TKD. It would give you an idea of how to use your elbows and knees in a way not normally taught in a dojang.
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

#190192 - 10/01/05 11:26 AM Re: Doubtful. effectiveness.. plz help [Re: trevek]
TKDFighter89 Offline

Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 85
You guys misunderstood. I neve rsaid anythign about quitting. I merely stated that even though I love doing it and i believe it is effective, I have my doubts from time to time because of all of the negative press it's getting.

#190193 - 10/01/05 12:33 PM Re: Doubtful. effectiveness.. plz help [Re: TKDFighter89]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by TKDfighter89 -


So which is it? Is it effective in a fight or not? Is TKD just another cheap sport? Should i switch to somethign like muay thai if im looking for a MARTIAL art?

As a 2nd degree, I am sure you are already aware that styles do not fight each other....people do. The combination of skill, luck and natural attributes will be the deciding factors in any confrontation.

Two different instructors in any given style may have radically different teaching methodologies. Some TKD schools stress light contact point type sparring. Others may stress full contact. Both still TKD.

I think that some of the other responders have the right idea - look at your training in totality, and determine where you may have gaps. That will tell you what you need to work on. Approach your instructor for guidance. If the instructor can not help, then you may wish to look elsewhere.
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

#190194 - 10/05/05 01:10 PM Re: Doubtful. effectiveness.. plz help [Re: TKDFighter89]
Avalon Offline

Registered: 08/25/05
Posts: 50
Loc: Canada
My son is a green belt at a dojang run by a 2nd Dan. This instructor's day job is working at a group home for violent teenage offenders. Although he doesn't use the devastating kicks in self-defense at this job, his intense training has prepared him for the attacks at this place and he is able to defend himself well. He hasn't harmed any of the teens but because he is accustomed to real full-contact sparring he is able to react appropriately in these situations. I believe this is what MA will do for a person.

He has hired two Jiu Jitsu trainers for his dojang to teach grappling on alternate days. He finds he has trouble beating either of them in a match so he is also extending some of his training into grappling.

If you continue to train hard you will be better prepared for a "street fight" than if you didn't have the training. So, I guess to answer your question, TKD training can be as effective for SD as any other martial art; it's all in how you train.

Don't let the negative comments put you off. Often people who bash an art either haven't practiced it themselves or were stuck in a Mcdojang and received poor training.


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