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#189148 - 09/27/05 01:27 PM Fighting girls in competition.
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
I don't intend this post to be sexist in any way so i'm sorry in advance if i offend anyone.

From a young age most boys are told not to hit girls. A few years ago at my first competition i was fighting a girl a belt above me (purple) who was slightly taller and a bit older but had a lot poorer technique than me: weak blocks, slouching stance, slow punches etc (all the schools involved were a bit mcdojo-y) but i found i had an in built problem fighting this girl and fought only defensively never landing any blows. i couldn't bring myself to hit her from the saying that had been pounded into me for years. has anyone else had this problem?

(and if it wasn't for her i would have been silver not joint bronze lol grrr )
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#189149 - 09/27/05 04:37 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
schanne Offline
breaks things

Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
Stop fighting women you will have plenty of time for that hn you get married
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The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi Schanne

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#189150 - 09/27/05 05:34 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Ok thats your problem solve it by thinking this way, one of the reason for Co-ed classes is for women to learn how to deal with men. So in order to help her you have to start making light contact. Start by telgraphy to help her, show the fist or kick you gonna strike with (wiggle it) or (raise it) kick or strike moderately fast as she learns to block it throw it harder and harder. So she work this into single counter then combinations. Do this offensively and defensively trying to hit her but pulling back some. She needs to learn to use her foot work and her blocks to defend, take offensive and counter.

When she is attacking you tell her faster and harder push her to train harder to deal with a mans strengths so she can learn how to counter or attack within it. You can't play with her thinking she can't do it, she wouldn't have that rank if she didn't have the bsic skills, maybe not yet but with your help she can get it.

Some women that spar men often tear thru their division until they meet another female tiger. Make her a tiger instead of a kitty Cat. So you see its not all about you is It.

Women can give some pretty weird fakes and fients that can throw a skilled fighter off, some can hit pretty hard and have really good combinations, thats where we want to take her.

Good luck, when she is gets better you will have to get better.
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#189151 - 09/28/05 02:32 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
I've always been told not to hit girls and I had no problem hitting them in sparring. When I started I went a lot lighter, but training with the same people(girls) for a while, I started hitting them harder and they did the same to me.

She is there to fight, not to have people make her feel better and disillusion her about being a girl.

Wail away buddy!!
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We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#189152 - 09/28/05 09:10 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
horizon Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/05
Posts: 143
Loc: London
Quote:

Ok thats your problem solve it by thinking this way, one of the reason for Co-ed classes is for women to learn how to deal with men. So in order to help her you have to start making light contact. Start by telgraphy to help her, show the fist or kick you gonna strike with (wiggle it) or (raise it) kick or strike moderately fast as she learns to block it throw it harder and harder. So she work this into single counter then combinations. Do this offensively and defensively trying to hit her but pulling back some. She needs to learn to use her foot work and her blocks to defend, take offensive and counter.

When she is attacking you tell her faster and harder push her to train harder to deal with a mans strengths so she can learn how to counter or attack within it. You can't play with her thinking she can't do it, she wouldn't have that rank if she didn't have the bsic skills, maybe not yet but with your help she can get it.

Some women that spar men often tear thru their division until they meet another female tiger. Make her a tiger instead of a kitty Cat. So you see its not all about you is It.

Women can give some pretty weird fakes and fients that can throw a skilled fighter off, some can hit pretty hard and have really good combinations, thats where we want to take her.

Good luck, when she is gets better you will have to get better.




I am just wondering if you only do this with girls who are less experienced or also guys who are less experienced? If you are standing opposite a beginner guy, do you telegraph as well, starting with light contact or do you go in much harder from the start?
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Ichi Nichi Issho - one day, one lifetime

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#189153 - 09/28/05 12:13 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: horizon]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
From a teaching prepective I do it with anybody having trouble blocking or delievery a technique. You not talking about beating the person as in a real competition fight. Its training after she/he is use to blocking power shots then u try it without the warning and build to move in and out of combinations. The key with a co-ed class is to build confidence and both people get something out it.

Yes I believe blocking something they see coming 1st, is more important then getting hit several times by something they can't block, this can make them afraid to spar. Its just the basic/physchology of sparring, its harder to block something that you are afraid of then something you've been taught you can block/evade.

Its about helping not winning in Training. So the answer to your question is maybe, pending how advance they are.


Edited by Neko456 (09/28/05 12:17 PM)
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#189154 - 09/28/05 12:32 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
Zombie Zero Offline
Compliance & Liability
Veteran

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1987
Loc: Lorton, VA
In a competition, you're not fighting a girl. You're fighting a warrior.
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In my walk in the martial way, my hope is that as long as I live, I will always be a beginner.

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#189155 - 09/28/05 02:03 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Zombie Zero]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
In competition in pads if you can't strike her on the side of the helmet without hurting her or punch/kick her in the stomach to just out point her. You do have a stero complex, you must be Jr. or peewee other then that Co-eds don't sparr together. Lose the complex at that age they are smarter (to give U err!) and stronger (its just true) then you are and hit harder!!! You won't catch up until you are about 12 or 13.

When I was eight I had a girl grab me by my ankle and arm spin me in a circle and let go, she was 8 or 9. I thought I was never gonna land, pretty embarassing nothing I could do, unless I wanted it to happen again.
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#189156 - 09/28/05 03:56 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: schanne]
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
Quote:

Stop fighting women you will have plenty of time for that hn you get married




i don't need to wait until i'm married: i've got a sister who is as big as me and will swing at me over nothing lol!
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#189157 - 09/29/05 04:14 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
horizon Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/05
Posts: 143
Loc: London
I was just curious about people's (read men) attitude towards women in martial arts. There is another interesting thread going on about women and martial arts.

Personally I wouldn't want to be treatened different because I am a woman. Yes of course I do not have the strength of a big strong bloke in the prime of his life, who has been working out daily for a greater part of his life. But don't you alsways have to adapt yourself to the other persons level while training with a junior grade? Wether that is a woman, or a young guy not fully developed.I know my shortcomings, but that means I would have to make sure that I train hard to overcome these, or try to do better on other parts so I can still stand my ground. If people won't take me seriously and constantly take it easy on me, I won't be able to progress, or develop my strong pionts, because I wouldn't be pushed.

Not being taken seriously because I am a woman would be a bigger turnoff on MA than being pushed hard if you know what I mean
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Ichi Nichi Issho - one day, one lifetime

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#189158 - 09/29/05 01:36 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: horizon]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I understand fully, if you are not taken seriously it wasting your time. Its like beinging knee deep water practicing how not to drown, you got to be tested in order to know how to improve or what works. If you just gotta stand up or not be pushed, you never feel the real threat of being underwater.

I agree with you totally. I take women seriously. I remember a burgular/crook telling me the scraiest thing to him was being between a armed woman and her crying baby in the other bed room. A man will order you around, kick when you down, and hold you for the Cops.

A mother in the same situation will Shot/Stab, KILL YOU!!! and go get her baby. No questions asked. No ego trips! Its in a women to protect the people she loves, you just got to get them to look in the mirror and u have a warrior.


Edited by Neko456 (09/29/05 01:40 PM)
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#189159 - 09/30/05 08:39 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
Belnick Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 1165
Loc: SWEDEN
Quote:

I
From a young age most boys are told not to hit girls.




yea and and they are also told to never kick a man that is down, how many in here follow that


what was the sport ?
not heard of a full contact yet that allow women and men in the same class

could be fun to see Vladimir Klitshko vs Laila Ali or something :P

it feels weird to sparr with a girl, but if it was a competition she could only blame her self for entering
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#189160 - 09/30/05 10:50 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
horizon Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/05
Posts: 143
Loc: London
I remember a burgular/crook telling me the scraiest thing to him was being between a armed woman and her crying baby in the other bed room. A man will order you around, kick when you down, and hold you for the Cops.

A mother in the same situation will Shot/Stab, KILL YOU!!! and go get her baby. No questions asked. No ego trips! Its in a women to protect the people she loves, you just got to get them to look in the mirror and u have a warrior.




Some call it hysteria, some call it instinct

There is a lot of discussion going on about women and MA at the forum at the moment. I must admit that I strongly feel the need to comment on some of the things people say, whne it is suggested that women sometimes are treated differently (in favor of them) which leads to frustrations for some guys. What I am trying to say is that not every woman wants to be treated differently, or be taken easy on. In some cases it could even be the other way around, sometimes women have to work harder to show that they are serious, they don't want people (men) taking it easy on them because they are women, and to earn respect from some men and be taken seriously (read some, because as not every woman is the same, the same for men of course).

I have no intention on blaming guys for not taking me and other women serious, there are heaps of men who do , but enough of them still regard the MA world as a mens world, where women don't fit it, unfortunately.
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Ichi Nichi Issho - one day, one lifetime

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#189161 - 09/30/05 10:59 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Comment only: competition situation should not be compared to the street. If one is going to explore the possibility of a gender specific mindset in an actual situation...it should be a different thread.

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#189162 - 09/30/05 11:53 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: harlan]
horizon Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/05
Posts: 143
Loc: London
comment taken into consideration
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Ichi Nichi Issho - one day, one lifetime

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#189163 - 09/30/05 04:32 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: horizon]
VS_Karateka Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 23
Loc: England
Personally I get frustrated when I have to tell guys they can hit me I don't mind.Lets face it how else would I learn if I didn't get hit once in a While!
Oh by the way no offence taken it's good to hear both sides but I go to the dojo to learn Karate not origami, just go for it!!
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Back off or I'll open a can of whoop ass!!

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#189164 - 09/30/05 10:36 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: VS_Karateka]
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
You step on the mat with me-you have no sex(especially after I am through with you ).

Your gender is irrelevant. You have only one purpose-to help me train and become better. I expect whoever I am on the mat with to view me the same way.
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I'm sorry, I was just imaging what you would look like with duct tape over your mouth

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#189165 - 10/01/05 01:25 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: VS_Karateka]
UofM Shorin Ryu Offline
Resident Forum Breakdancer

Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 981
Quote:

Personally I get frustrated when I have to tell guys they can hit me I don't mind.Lets face it how else would I learn if I didn't get hit once in a While!
Oh by the way no offence taken it's good to hear both sides but I go to the dojo to learn Karate not origami, just go for it!!




Unfortunately most of us boys have been brought up to behave like "gentlemen", which means giving the utmost courtesy and consideration to the female species.

We're working against basically the backbone of our paternal education system, and trying to un-taboo the idea that hitting girls is ALWAYS considered disrespectful, regardless of situation.

Please be patient with us, we'll eventually stop feeling awkward and just start kicking your a$$
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Alea iacta est ~ Gauis Julius Caesar Ne quis nimis ~ Solon Nuts to cancer ~ Sanchin31

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#189166 - 10/01/05 06:36 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Belnick]
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
Quote:

Quote:

I
From a young age most boys are told not to hit girls.




yea and and they are also told to never kick a man that is down, how many in here follow that


what was the sport ?
not heard of a full contact yet that allow women and men in the same class

could be fun to see Vladimir Klitshko vs Laila Ali or something :P

it feels weird to sparr with a girl, but if it was a competition she could only blame her self for entering




it was a karate tournement, which was about 1/2 contact (no hits to the face or groin - a hit to the side of the head would mean a penalty point) we also didn't wear pads we only wore very thin foam back-of-the-hand protectors and protectors to cover the shins and top of the feet.

i was also about 12 or 13 at the time and we had to just tap the opponent with a little force to make the hit notice able. i was also blue belt at the time after about 2 and half years of training in shukokai karate.

i never intended this thread to be about the psych of women in self defense or shooting people to protect their kids or this would be in the self defense forum
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Go seek the advise of a qualified instructor.

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#189167 - 10/01/05 10:11 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: UofM Shorin Ryu]
VS_Karateka Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 23
Loc: England
Quote:

Quote:

Personally I get frustrated when I have to tell guys they can hit me I don't mind.Lets face it how else would I learn if I didn't get hit once in a While!
Oh by the way no offence taken it's good to hear both sides but I go to the dojo to learn Karate not origami, just go for it!!




Unfortunately most of us boys have been brought up to behave like "gentlemen", which means giving the utmost courtesy and consideration to the female species.

We're working against basically the backbone of our paternal education system, and trying to un-taboo the idea that hitting girls is ALWAYS considered disrespectful, regardless of situation.

Please be patient with us, we'll eventually stop feeling awkward and just start kicking your a$$




Point of view noted, I bow graciously and thank you for you ''utmost courtesy and consideration'' Just hit me or I'll hit you first!!!
_________________________
Back off or I'll open a can of whoop ass!!

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#189168 - 10/02/05 09:28 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: VS_Karateka]
kenposan Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 633
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
I have always adjusted my contact to the level of my sparring partner, regardless of sex or rank. I too had difficulty when I first started sparring women because of how I was brought up. But then I had I just followed my tenet from above and took my cue from my partner. Some women don't want to go hard so I hold back a bit. Some want to go hard so I do. Our school used lots of protective gear so that made me feel a bit better.
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The angry man will defeat himself in battle, as well as in life. -Samurai maxim

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#189169 - 10/02/05 10:29 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
vashtheblade Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 24
A enemy is an enemy no matter what. Just give it your all because once you enter a ring you are not a man or a woman just a fighter nothing more nothing less.
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The greatest happiness one can have is the realization that one does not require happiness.

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#189170 - 10/03/05 10:14 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: vashtheblade]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
I was in a gymclass at school, I guess I was about 15 then). We had some sort of boxing instruction. (It was one of those theme classes. The other time we went horsebackriding. Haha.)
I had to box a girl with boxing experience. She was about my size. (I on the other hand didn't have any MA experience at that time whatsoever.) She came hard on me, so I gave what I had to give. She told me I did pretty good. In the beginning I also didn't know how hard I had to hit her. At the end I had to hit her quite hard.

Gender didn't matter at the end. (In the begin I did. But that was only because I didn't know what she could take.)

Just fight like you would anybody. She attends to the competition, so do you. You know what you are there for and you know what to expect. So does she.

Regards!
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Ives

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#189171 - 10/03/05 01:36 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
onb Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 246
Loc: Canada
When I started in TKD, I wasn't sure what level of contact was acceptable either. I was still a yellow stripe and I was sparring against a young lady red belt (about 17 I think). Well, I had my gentleman training ingrained in my head and was up until then always told that beginner sparring was non-contact until you learn some control. Well, this was my first experience against a senior belt... they didn't have the same no contact rule. Just as we began the spar, we usually tough gloves before you start just to show respect and kinda signal that your ready... so, we bopped gloves, I steped back a bit to get my spacing a bit and to try to figure out how to proceed. As I hopped back, WHACK! Something hit me in the side of the head. I looked at the lady I was sparring and she was still a step or two in front of me in the ready position looking all the world like she had never moved and was waiting for the match to begin. So I thought, "maybe the isntructor smacked me in the back of the head with his padded baseball bat"... looked to the left, nope not there, looked to the right, there he is... 10 meters away... "how did he get all the way over there?" So I look back at my opponent and ask her, "did you just hit me?" She all the sudden looked mortified! "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to kick you so hard" At this point, I burst out laughing. It was about the funniest thing ever. She kicked me so hard and so fast that I didn't even see it coming or going. THATS when I realized what I had to look forward to. I realized that if I let up or lightened up even a bit, she was gonna hand me my butt on a platter.

She still kicks me in the head all the time but, at least I can see it coming now and sometimes block it. Trust me, the ladies you meet in MA's can school you just as fast as anyone. Faster sometimes. It's exactly when you let down your guard or underestimate your opponent that you get kicked in the head.

onb (Oh 'n' Bee)

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#189172 - 10/04/05 04:33 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
Chanters Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 559
Loc: Manchester, UK
It annoys the hell out of me when some males go easy on me because I'm female, I feel like I'm being cheated out of a decent practice. Sure there are some others who will practice with me the same they would a male and I appreciate that.

However, I feel very hypocritical because when I practice with some of the older women in the class I take it easy on them although one of them does suffer with a bad knee so I can't throw her like most of the others. Yet again there is a woman of a similar age to myself who I feel comforatble throwing around no problem.

In reality, an attacker isn't going to go easy on a girl just because of her gender. And if your female fellow practitioners are training for self-defence, you should treat them as you would a male.
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Chanters

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#189173 - 10/04/05 06:13 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Chanters]
Belnick Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 1165
Loc: SWEDEN
Quote:

It annoys the hell out of me when some males go easy on me because I'm female, I feel like I'm being cheated out of a decent practice. Sure there are some others who will practice with me the same they would a male and I appreciate that.

However, I feel very hypocritical because when I practice with some of the older women in the class I take it easy on them although one of them does suffer with a bad knee so I can't throw her like most of the others. Yet again there is a woman of a similar age to myself who I feel comforatble throwing around no problem.

In reality, an attacker isn't going to go easy on a girl just because of her gender. And if your female fellow practitioners are training for self-defence, you should treat them as you would a male.




what is your weight ?

I'm 211pound and 6.6"

and when I'm gonna sparr with a girl that is 5.3-5.5 and weight 110-132 it feel very awkward, especially if it is wrestling, considering I can get a grown man to tap with a normal bearhug....

so yea I will take it very easy on girl

unless I get attacked by one of those from the bond movies
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#189174 - 10/04/05 06:57 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Belnick]
Chanters Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 559
Loc: Manchester, UK
As I practice aikido we don't spar and in instances like you say, I think whether male or female and of a smaller build you'd take it easier on them anyway because of your sheer size! Or at least in practice mode I hope you would! You don't want to injure them now do you.
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Chanters

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#189175 - 10/04/05 01:23 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I never intended this thread to be about the psych of women in self defense or shooting people to protect their kids or this would be in the self defense forum


My quote on that topic was referring to thats were the real fighter (inside/heart) is once you have a woman fight like shes fighting for someone she loves and that person is HER. You got a real tigeress on your hand.

I'm 6'3 225lbs (her teacher) this same Nidan 5'6 135lbs has knocked me on my a$$ with a spin back thrust kick fighting multiples, I'm talking about flying and out breath when I landed. Thats what I call a good technique no hard feelings, in these situation U gotta do me, before I do U.

And not just me if she makes it to her hair brush/yawara, Men give her space. Are gonna rush in a get her!, No I'm not gonna do it, I thought it was your turn! .

The students bow deep when she takes over classes, because they know their gonna sweat, she extra tough on weak men r women because she knows what they gonna have to face later. She's been knocked down and will head butt the grion if you're standing over her. She will use anything to survive.

This girl can FIGHT, because she knows how to fight men bigger women have less chance, because she grabs hair and punches even when sparring you better pin it up, men or women. I'd say she loves her self a lot. And don't care much for people that may attack her.
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#189176 - 10/05/05 08:45 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
Belnick Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 1165
Loc: SWEDEN
Quote:

I never intended this thread to be about the psych of women in self defense or shooting people to protect their kids or this would be in the self defense forum


My quote on that topic was referring to thats were the real fighter (inside/heart) is once you have a woman fight like shes fighting for someone she loves and that person is HER. You got a real tigeress on your hand.

I'm 6'3 225lbs (her teacher) this same Nidan 5'6 135lbs has knocked me on my a$$ with a spin back thrust kick fighting multiples, I'm talking about flying and out breath when I landed. Thats what I call a good technique no hard feelings, in these situation U gotta do me, before I do U.

And not just me if she makes it to her hair brush/yawara, Men give her space. Are gonna rush in a get her!, No I'm not gonna do it, I thought it was your turn! .

The students bow deep when she takes over classes, because they know their gonna sweat, she extra tough on weak men r women because she knows what they gonna have to face later. She's been knocked down and will head butt the grion if you're standing over her. She will use anything to survive.

This girl can FIGHT, because she knows how to fight men bigger women have less chance, because she grabs hair and punches even when sparring you better pin it up, men or women. I'd say she loves her self a lot. And don't care much for people that may attack her.




umm ? how do u keep it from getting serious ???
if she goes on like that, how is the other student know that they should not go all out and using elbows and strikes to temple etc... ?

I mean , it is training, so it is nice to have 50% of your students in the hospital every day or so ?
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#189177 - 10/06/05 07:13 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
otobeawanker Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 192
Loc: CANADA
I would never go easy on someone in competition regardless of their sex, creed or age.

Vice versa

If someone took it easy on me in competition because they were at a perceived advantage. I would consider it dishonourable and I would be greatly offended.
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#189178 - 10/07/05 05:43 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: horizon]
scorpion Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 26
Loc: uk
in our tae kwon do classes everyone is treated as equal including the women....normally i have problems fighting the women ...their tough and if they hit me hard ill hit back everyone knows to fight equally and if you keep it like that then you should have no problems
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#189179 - 10/07/05 10:39 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Belnick]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Belnick wrote - if she goes on like that, how is the other student know that they should not go all out and using elbows and strikes to temple etc... ?

I mean , it is training, so it is nice to have 50% of your students in the hospital every day or so ?

Do you not think women can be well trained? I really don't understand this question, she is respected because if you go all out she can repell and defend herself.

At a certain level a woman can hurt you as bad as a man. As for hospital nobodies hardly ever gone to a hospital. As it is with many dojos, in a contact endeavor reasonable amount of contact is accepted and applauded, pending how serious u train.

I've had to step in between her and a even matched man or woman to stop a mean exchange. But thats just and expression of fighting sprirt. Nobodies tells the women in the class to applaud her, buts its kind of hard not to admire a woman that gets staggered and takes the guy down during this same exchange, stomps him and punches him and he can't do anything about it. I have to dive in to stop her onslaughter, its continous sparring so its legal.

I'd pit her against almost any man with that brush in her hand.

Respect is earned before its given in a fight/serious sparring. We are not blowing smoke up her butt, this girl can fight. Ask here husband that grabbed her by surprise in the dark inside their house trying to make whooppy. She has knocked unconcious men full contact sparring (brown belts under classmen), that tried to get rough with her. She has defended herself in street in near rape incidents remember the high heels used as Tonfa Ko, in a dark secured parking lot leaving the job late, same woMAN. She is all woman, really cute but shes a badass, I'm proud of her. Now she will run if she can or has to.

Were not blowing up her butt, she knows that full out she can't trade blows often and beat a man, because of his strength but if he makes one mistake, her skills are such that he will wake the next mourning.


Edited by Neko456 (10/07/05 11:01 AM)
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#189180 - 10/09/05 05:25 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
Belnick Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 1165
Loc: SWEDEN
well, lets take accidents ?
I almost broke my nose in the last practice, got a nice knee right on the ridge
however that was an accident, if I knew he meant it I would have retaliated(when I could see again that is), or that is just me ?

another guy goes hard on the bigger guys in training because he think we can take harder punches, so I just lost it with him one time and caught his leg and flipped him with my right arm, when he landed he was smart enough to cool down...

another was a boxer that punched too hard for practice so I got [censored] and took him down(slammed) and told him to cool it

if everyone just go at it, then it is just a matter of time before u rip a knee with a heel hock or break an arm with an armbar on you friends(or they are not your friends?)
not to mention elbows hitting too hard my mistake etc..

I am not saying a woman cant hurt a man...
but the women I train with I can earslap and they would fly like ppl being show in movies :P, they are short and lightweight

it is one thing to sparr with protection and go harder, but to just go at it on a normal training session is stupid, I would not want to have my fighters hurt or cut before an event

btw I am just curios, how big is the biggest she have taken out ?
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#189181 - 10/09/05 11:24 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
CobraLionz Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 39
Neko, I don't believe you. This sounds like another MA tall tale.

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#189182 - 10/11/05 04:20 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Belnick]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
You are talking animal class or MMA we are talking continous sparring with semi-light contact (work your combinations and 1/2 to 3/4 power to the head) so its rather controlled but tempers can rise. We referee it so it doesn't get too rambuctious, I've had to straighten and reset some noses or put ice paks on an eye or two. But thats all part of sparring at this level we have a 5th level that includes take downs rarely do we match a 225lb man with a 125lb female. Unless in our animal classes and I swear to you I've been hit by that Yawara brush or kicked by her spin back kick I wouldn't want to be on the end of that on th street.

So we are talking a whole different level of sparring, but I have no doubt that if she is stuned she could pull of her sweep and stomp on a 225lb, she done it on me. Fortunately I've seen her do so many time ( I mean I taught it to her) I can counter on ground before she goes into her beatit routine. You got to be good to hit her in the face solid no matter how big you are with her guards up. She's pretty good.


CobraLionz - I don't care what you believe keep thinking you can't and you won't. She proven she can with full grown men in the streets and inside our animal classes. She well respected, you need to train hard and get some confidence.
Like she tells the women in our class anyone of you can do what I do, you gotta want it. They got to bring some to get some!

Obviously you have none to bring.


Edited by Neko456 (10/11/05 04:23 PM)
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#189183 - 10/11/05 09:04 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
CobraLionz Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 39
You have no idea how ridiculous and inexperienced you sound. As someone who trains inside and outside the dojo, I know very well what a petite 125 pound person is capable of.

If this person is so good as to be able to whoop a 225 pound man full contact how come none of us ever heard of her? Why is she training small time if she's so good? Stop lying.

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#189184 - 10/14/05 04:34 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: CobraLionz]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I really don't know what you are talking about. I never said that she has beaten 225lb men, if she is matched with a man it usually someone her size or close by 10-25lbs. Except for the attempted rape and Ko with the high heels, and i didn't say that the police report said it. And he was about 240lbs I guess she hit him full contact. I've never asked. The thing is she wasn't afraid to use what she knows because she dealt with big men before in class.

What I said was that she has sent a 225lb men flying, the incident was an animal class, I was sneaking up behind her to grab her and body slam her. Step away and spin back kick me in mid grasp, I tried to block it with my knee and was too slow and sal la vie, I'm flying, knocked out of breath.
I had just body slammed another 200lb man, with the same sneaky technique. He got beat until he stood up and fought his way out.

With that brush she has dented my helmet trying to take her down, she has choked and stuck it between the legs of heavier guys and dumping them on another. She is accurate enough with the yawara that if she wanted it could have been my eye instead of my cover temple area. Again trying to sneak up on her.

I've seen her dropped by men and women, but she never quits and may drop them in the next instance. Its not about winning its about not quitting and the very next fight she wants them again usually they can't do it that same way again, so she learning. These are men or teenagers her same weight. I've seen bigger 250lbs men make a mistake and she has tapped them out with chokes and arm bars with r w/o the brush.

She is a lot like me she has competed and won most time. But win or lose she understands that its just a game of tag, far less important or intense then our level 4-5 sparring. Unlike you she doesn't find that the best fighters or MAs are out there cart wheeling and scoring with flippy dippy kicks or diving touching each other with finger tips back fist.

Her challenge is continued study of the MAs, she is a Nidan and a proud example of it. Notice I didn't say a Woman Nidan, she is just a Nidan one ours best, I will say that.

So I'm not lying you just need to be able to read and don't put words in my mouth based on your finding, at tournament.

I'll make sure I tell her some other woman thinks she no good because she not a big name tournament fighter. She will laugh at that just like I did. Cobralionz U must be one bad tourney fighter, I bet you can really flick that fingertip back fist. How long can you kick on one leg? good show. You must be far better then she is she can't do that long.


Edited by Neko456 (10/14/05 04:58 PM)
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#189185 - 10/15/05 08:13 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
Belnick Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 1165
Loc: SWEDEN
neko, just give her the url to this site instead and let her tell it her self
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#189186 - 10/17/05 10:43 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Belnick]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Yeah, I guess she might want to talk to a bunch of losers like Us. What do you guys do for a living on the PC all times of day and night? I'm stuck in a dead end job waiting for that gold watch in a constant circle of vouchers and payment validation. Which gives me plenty of time to Surf the net while those millions of records are processing.

But she already has this URL, she occassional surfs International Martial Arts website. Its a little more professional then this, I don't mind I'm a bottom feeder anyway.

I can see her logoff now the 1st topic she see is "Can a ninja really fly?" or "At 5yrs old I was a great street fights".

No really, the some the same topics are discussed but at a different level and no real, "You are lying folks". Maybe, "Thats a bit unbelievable, how did ...". But most of the time if they haven't done it, they want to know how it was done. Not, that its ain't possible.

They also beleive that a woman can handle herself in a real S/d situation, and Tournaments are not the real testing grounds for skill??? They also know how to READ, without putting words in others writings.

So theres not that much difference, she may respond, we will see.
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#189187 - 10/17/05 10:49 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Quote:

But she already has this URL, she occassional surfs International Martial Arts website. Its a little more professional then this, I don't mind I'm a bottom feeder anyway.

I can see her logoff now the 1st topic she see is "Can a ninja really fly?" or "At 5yrs old I was a great street fights".

No really, the some the same topics are discussed but at a different level and no real, "You are lying folks". Maybe, "Thats a bit unbelievable, how did ...". But most of the time if they haven't done it, they want to know how it was done. Not, that its ain't possible.

They also beleive that a woman can handle herself in a real S/d situation, and Tournaments are not the real testing grounds for skill??? They also know how to READ, without putting words in others writings.

So theres not that much difference, she may respond, we will see.




Not trying to put words in your mouth, but are you saying that fightingarts.com is a place for bottomfeeders?

I'm really interested in your justification for this analysis.
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#189188 - 10/17/05 10:59 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: JoelM]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Did you see that smiley face at the end of that sentence? And I know you have read the same redundant simple statements that I allured to in my comment. Thanks to the monitors they cleared some of that up.

So now some of us are sensitive and paper thin skin, Men of honor that we can't laugh at ourselves.

Before you get your dandruff up, What do you think about "Fighting girls in competition"? Topic?

I'm use to people disagreeing with me, but at least do it so it pretains to the topic. To answer your question yes we are bottom feeders, we talk liberially about every topic under the sun, water or ground. Noticed I said We, I'm pretty thick skinned take your shot, but stick to the subject.

By the way some of the bottom feeders are some of the toughest fighters in the world be it fish or Man! Don't take offense just because the title does NOT reek of gold, you still may wear a crown.


Edited by Neko456 (10/17/05 11:08 AM)
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#189189 - 10/17/05 11:19 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
I've got no problem with fighting girls in competition, but this is a very legitimate topic. Lots of people I have talked to and trained with have problems with it. They've been taught not to hit girls, ever. Well that comes into conflict when you're in a competition, now doesn't it? If you don't see any legitimacy to this topic, then shut up and leave it alone.

You can call yourself a bottom feeder all you want, but do not call me or this website by that name. I know that you did not mean it as a compliment in any way, because that name is not in any way a compliment.
Quote:

Main Entry: bot·tom-feed·er
Pronunciation: 'bä-t&m-"fE-d&r
Function: noun
1 : a fish that feeds at the bottom
2 : one that is of the lowest status or rank
3 : an opportunist who seeks quick profit usually at the expense of others or from their misfortune




I'm not paper thin, but I do take offense when someone dismisses something so easily that I have worked hard at to make a quality product. I'm not so low as you to take a shot like that(not an insult, you are a self-professed bottom-feeder), but I do come to the defense of that which is unjustly attacked.
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#189190 - 10/17/05 11:24 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
Chanters Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 559
Loc: Manchester, UK
Quote:

Yeah, I guess she might want to talk to a bunch of losers like Us. What do you guys do for a living on the PC all times of day and night?




Speak for yourself.

Personally I come here for infomation and OK, sometimes there's a lot of bunkum on this forum but there are many members here who offer useful advice and knowledge.

People who resort to name-calling or insults often do so because they've been sussed as exagerating slightly. I'm not saying you're lying about a female member at your dojo, but you are making her sound like super-girl who's only weakness is kryptonite!

Chill out Neko456, if she can do what you say she does, what does it matter what some other people on this forum think?
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#189191 - 10/17/05 11:34 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: JoelM]
CobraLionz Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 39
Neko is just one of those crazy guys who thinks he knows martial arts

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#189192 - 10/17/05 12:16 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: CobraLionz]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
This is your forum I apologize I could see why you took that serious. But as I stated I did end the sentence with a smiley face. Meaning that I was joking. I spend more time on this forum then any other because of the diversied and unusually topics and personnel that respond.

Once again if this is your forum I meant no harm, I was laughing really at myself. And made comment on how liberial the forum is to voice all oppinons and how good your monitors are.

But I do have a problem with people that think ALL the good MAs do cart wheeling and kick 90 times in a circle on 1 leg or across the ring and think thats real fighting. Or if your names is not on a tourney competition list every week youe'r no good.

You got admit thats pretty weak. Any way I meant no offense, except there are some people that really know what they are talking about here and can dive pretty deep without drowning, others that will drown pretty quick if they come out hopping and kicking on 1 leg, looking for a referee on streets/other level of competition.


Edited by Neko456 (10/17/05 01:29 PM)

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#189193 - 10/17/05 12:17 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
You know, I rarely see the few 'big names' posting anywhere. When I want the opinion of a 7th dan, or a koryu specialist...I e-mail them directly. I didn't take umbrage with your initial post, as I saw it as self-deprecating humor, but I would like to point out that a forum is only as good as the members who contribute. Feel free to do your part by picking your words carefully.

Thank you.


Edited by harlan (10/17/05 12:20 PM)

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#189194 - 10/17/05 12:37 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
This is not my forum, but something I take pride in.
Quote:

But I do have a problem with people that think ALL the good MAs do cart wheels and kick 90 times in a circle on leg or across the ring and think thats real fighting. Our if your names is not on a tourney competition list youe'r no good.



99% of the people with that mindset who post such nonsense on this forum are set straight, the remainder is simply ignored.
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#189195 - 10/17/05 01:37 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: JoelM]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Granted the forum seems to handle such issues, again I apologize to any that thought my attempt at humour was poor. I hope not to pull you into the same pit that I reside. Some people see dirty hands as a poor choice of profession or a lack of. I see it as a sure sign of hard work with more then just your mind. Its not the only sign, everything is relative.

Thank you for excepting my sincer apology.
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#189196 - 10/17/05 01:49 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
And I hope you can accept my apology for coming on a bit strong on the defensive. I see nothing wrong with dirty hands, although it may not be my profession of choice, I try not to look down upon others and their choices.

take care,
Joel

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#189197 - 10/17/05 01:52 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
CobraLionz Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 39
First Neko knows this superhuman 120 pound female which no one has ever heard of who can beat a 225 pound grown male with martial arts training in a fight.

Now neko thinks most people on here think of martial arts as kicking in circles and doing cartwheels? Funny, I didn't see anyone mention either except YOU.
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#189198 - 10/17/05 01:54 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Chanters]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I'm not saying you're lying about a female member at your dojo, but you are making her sound like super-girl who's only weakness is kryptonite!

My comment - I've seen her dropped by men and women, but she never quits and MAY drop them in the next instance. Its not about winning its about NOT QUITING and the very next fight she wants them again usually they can't do it that same way again, so she's learning.

If never quiting or wanting to better herself is a Super woman then she is. She just another Nidan in my books. Notice I didn't say female Nidan, she is a Nidan is every scent of the word. Do I sound like I'm bragging. Like my ex-mother law stated, "It takes a poor duck not to praise his/her own pond". But its because she does not quit.

I'm exposed I'm proud of her, so now you have it. If she gets her butt whipped, she crawals back up and tries it again. More Amazon in the mini package.
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#189199 - 10/17/05 02:03 PM Dirty hands? [Re: Neko456]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
What's wrong with dirty hands? My dad was a machinist who could do Calculus (slide rule days), my husband is an Ex-Army officer who works as a landscaper by choice, I have a degree and have worked second jobs/third shift for years (donuts, cleaning toilets) to put food on the table for my kids.

I have no patience for classism...one of the reasons I only 'breeze' through other websites that some tout as 'better'.


Edited by harlan (10/17/05 02:06 PM)

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#189200 - 10/17/05 02:15 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: CobraLionz]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I'm not too high on point fighting or made for tournaments katas I'll keep my prejudice to myself.

But I think it was U that stated thats she doesn't exist because she not practicing big time and nobodies heard of her. Haven't you ever caught a guy out position and took advantage of his lead?

Being one of the 225lb ders she kicked on his butt, why would lie about that. Hell I tried to block it with my knee I was just too slow. I don't know what the others guys excuse were, hell I was too busy laughing like they were at me.

But all the good MAs don't always seek bright lights and fame. And you are right you didn't spefici tournament competition but besides movies how do we get seen, Tourneys right. Seminars and books? Maybe.

Anyway I guess I put words in your writting. I beg your pardon but don't you know any women worth their salt? Why do U find it so hard to believe that a woman can really fight?

Hell she may not be any better then any other Nidan. But she sure is darn sure a good one at our dojo. She probably would be embarassed that I'm picking her out of the other male Nidans but this is about women not men.


Edited by Neko456 (10/17/05 02:18 PM)
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#189201 - 10/17/05 02:24 PM Re: Dirty hands? [Re: harlan]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Some people see dirty hands as a poor choice of profession or a lack of. I see it as a sure sign of hard work with more then just your mind.
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#189202 - 10/17/05 02:45 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
CobraLionz Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 39
OK, anyone that gets repeatedly knocked out is going to have their brain turned to mush. Either you are lying out the ass or you guys must be playing lovetaps at your dojo and doing simulated knockouts or something. Your super ninja would get a real thrashing, a bonafide knockout, outside of the safe confines of your dojo.

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#189203 - 10/17/05 03:27 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: CobraLionz]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Quote:

OK, anyone that gets repeatedly knocked out is going to have their brain turned to mush. Either you are lying out the ass or you guys must be playing lovetaps at your dojo and doing simulated knockouts or something. Your super ninja would get a real thrashing, a bonafide knockout, outside of the safe confines of your dojo.




Please do not needle the other members.

It serves no purpose and only makes you look silly.

If you have a problem with what others are saying please take it to PMs and dont post it here.

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#189204 - 10/17/05 04:57 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: CobraLionz]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
There few KOs, (but they do happen as in most contact dojos) in our dojo we watch them very carefully but if a person is stunned on his feet its called TKO, if they can't breath because of a strike or fall its called TKO, if they don't want to continue, quits, its called TKO. She has never quit on her stool some of the men have but she has not. (Note that some of the smaller men have to fight the larger guys sometimes). Some of the larger men have quit on their stools against some of the cagey smaller men, it skill not size that really counts. I've called a draw because their hitting too hard in her case F/F or M/F.

She rarely spars outside her 10-25lb range, but if she is refereing and she calls a halt to a match and big boy don't stop in order to protect the downed or stunned, big boy may find himself swept or tackled and a finger in his face.

It very easy to double leg or single leg somebody moving away from you and you'er coming in from the side, or to trip/sweep a person in motion. It doesn't take a he woman for that. But staying in his face it does. "Don't let me see you that again, Or you are DQ'd buddy"!! Nobodies gets beat down or really injuried.

Did that scare you imagining that? Your rank got stand for something other then holding your pants up.

Stop worry about what we do and you work on what U do, I'm worried about you, U can't tell the difference from a ninja and simple Goju Karate Man. You need to put the remote down and get out more, then you might have to sweat so don't do that.

Asked the guy that tried to rape who got a thrashing!!! Some people talk the walk, others can do what they been trained to do. Ms.Lady, My reply to you has ended.


Edited by Neko456 (10/17/05 05:09 PM)
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#189205 - 10/17/05 05:09 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
You know, Neko, the more you describe your dojo and this person that has so impressed you...the happier I am that this sedate old lady (meaning 'me') was able to find a 'non-contact' dojo.

Different strokes.


Edited by harlan (10/17/05 05:15 PM)

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#189206 - 10/17/05 05:10 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: harlan]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Sounds like You? hey!
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#189207 - 10/19/05 02:24 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
Belnick Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 1165
Loc: SWEDEN
Quote:

Yeah, I guess she might want to talk to a bunch of losers like Us. What do you guys do for a living on the PC all times of day and night? I'm stuck in a dead end job waiting for that gold watch in a constant circle of vouchers and payment validation. Which gives me plenty of time to Surf the net while those millions of records are processing.

But she already has this URL, she occassional surfs International Martial Arts website. Its a little more professional then this, I don't mind I'm a bottom feeder anyway.

I can see her logoff now the 1st topic she see is "Can a ninja really fly?" or "At 5yrs old I was a great street fights".

No really, the some the same topics are discussed but at a different level and no real, "You are lying folks". Maybe, "Thats a bit unbelievable, how did ...". But most of the time if they haven't done it, they want to know how it was done. Not, that its ain't possible.

They also beleive that a woman can handle herself in a real S/d situation, and Tournaments are not the real testing grounds for skill??? They also know how to READ, without putting words in others writings.

So theres not that much difference, she may respond, we will see.




lol this post made the whole thread to go off topic considering the replies...

me, I am a normal grunt who hate my govenrment for wanting to increase the gasoline price(they dont need to pay for the gas and still have 4-12timers higher pay)
I am normally at work for 9 hours, then home eat rest and away to train and then get home, eat, sleep, work and repeat everyweek 300days a year, gets a bit boring, but sometimes you get the time to surf a bit, like on the breaks...

I can agree hat this forum is not very hmm, what the word, new ?

it feels very old compared to the other one I visit when I have time
http://forum.episodeworld.com/ <--- an example

guess my problem is that I dont think she could take me

then again I dont think any girl could take me, but I have never tried a pro female boxer or something
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#189208 - 10/19/05 02:56 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Belnick]
Neko456 Offline
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Posts: 3260
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I don't think she could take you either, but with that brush in her hand one mistake and its stars and white lights, then sweep stomp. In a heads up sparring match its hard for any woman to beat a man of near equal ability.

But she has waxed intermediates all the time under the rules that we fight under men too of her weigh size and bigger, under ranked can't grapple with her long before tapping. She has gotten slammed but if they don't stunn her they are tapping in the next 5-10 minutes. I've grappled and sparred her she has hit me with a pretty good combination and almost set me up for a lock when I though I had a choke. She is crafty and smart technicain if she was stronger and had more weigh or a man, she'd be something else.

So she couldn't take you heads up. But if you make too many mistakes you could be seeing stars. No mistakes there hardly anyway she gonna beat a much bigger skilled man. But miss one block and the ends that brush hit you in the grion or temple.
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#189209 - 10/25/05 08:14 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: UofM Shorin Ryu]
AshiharaStudent Offline
Member

Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 121
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Quote:

Quote:

Personally I get frustrated when I have to tell guys they can hit me I don't mind.Lets face it how else would I learn if I didn't get hit once in a While!
Oh by the way no offence taken it's good to hear both sides but I go to the dojo to learn Karate not origami, just go for it!!





Unfortunately most of us boys have been brought up to behave like "gentlemen", which means giving the utmost courtesy and consideration to the female species.






...also, bruises and scars are cool on guys, but not so good on women!
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#189210 - 10/25/05 11:13 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: AshiharaStudent]
Foundation Offline
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Registered: 03/21/05
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You like having bruises and scars?
Strange, I certainly don't, and I think most guys don't like them either.

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#189211 - 10/25/05 11:25 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Foundation]
JoelM Offline
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I've got more scars on my index finger than my fiance has anywhere. I love them for some strange reason. I think it's the adrenline and excitement.
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#189212 - 10/25/05 01:53 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: JoelM]
Foundation Offline
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How on earth do you get that many scars on your index finger anyway? I never saw anyone get cut during sparring.

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#189213 - 10/25/05 05:22 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Foundation]
funstick5000 Offline
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Iaido, when putting the blade back into the scabard and missing slightley is one way.
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#189214 - 10/25/05 11:44 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Foundation]
JoelM Offline
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I don't get scars from sparring, just bruises and bone chips in my nose.

I really don't know where I got all of my scars, we'll just say I'm very adventurous bordering on stupid.
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#189215 - 10/26/05 08:53 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: JoelM]
funstick5000 Offline
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Quote:

I don't get scars from sparring, just bruises and bone chips in my nose.

I really don't know where I got all of my scars, we'll just say I'm very adventurous bordering on stupid.




me too!
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#189216 - 11/07/05 05:05 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
Neko456 Offline
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Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I attend a Silat/Kila seminar this week end and how this connects to this thread. There was some stick fighting done there using foam covered PCV pipe most testing targeting.

We were attired in protective gear head, arms and etc... long story short the women were able to beat a lot of the hard charging stronger men with angles and long range strikes winning several of these matches.

Women can beat stronger men pending rules.


Edited by Neko456 (11/07/05 05:06 PM)
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#189217 - 11/07/05 11:42 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
JoelM Offline
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Quote:

Women can beat stronger men pending rules.




Wow, I can't wait to see the flames build up on this one. Care to elaborate before you're virtually castrated?
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#189218 - 11/08/05 06:03 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
Belnick Offline
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Loc: SWEDEN
Quote:


Women can beat stronger men pending rules.




of course they can, as the rules are that only the women may strike and then men do nothing
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#189219 - 11/08/05 11:39 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: JoelM]
Neko456 Offline
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Berlick and Joelm I don't care what people say what I saw was some skilled men larger stronger get taken out by skilled Women of instructor level skill with sticks geared up to strike above the waist any thing goes. Except prolong inside fighting.

Again we were practicing targeting and precision not full scale war. From long range and inside they tri-angled and out manauvered men for the most or 1st strike to a specific target.

At first round elmination the Men didn't try hard, but after seeing the other Men lose the 2nd and 3rd round they tried harder some still lost. With a weapon it seems that women can equal/beat Men. There may have been a different in skill level in some of the matches, It was a seminar I don't know these people. It didn't look like it some of those guys looked pretty good. Seeing is believing.


Edited by Neko456 (11/08/05 11:43 AM)
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#189220 - 11/08/05 02:31 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
Foundation Offline
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Posts: 343
Well I want to refer to this thread.
A difference of skill can make up for a difference in strength. And with some rules the effect of strength is minimised, rendering skill the decisive factor.

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#189221 - 11/08/05 11:50 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
JoelM Offline
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Loc: Georgia, USA
That post makes a little more sense, but when you say "women can beat stronger men pending rules" it sounds like you're saying that the only way that women can beat stronger men is if it is in a competition with rules. Am I wrong or is that still what you're saying?
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#189222 - 11/09/05 03:52 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: JoelM]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

That post makes a little more sense, but when you say "women can beat stronger men pending rules" it sounds like you're saying that the only way that women can beat stronger men is if it is in a competition with rules. Am I wrong or is that still what you're saying?





Women generally have better eye-hand co-ordination, and bladed weapons handling is all about this.

This has been said many times before, but historically there have been women warriors who led men into battle. These women were of course exceptional individuals. I suppose todays' women when given weapons which do not require extraordinary strength to wield, and better eye-hand co-ordination means better speed and accuracy, an equiliser factor comes into play.

So I am not surprised at all. In gun shooting, especially handguns, I've seen women out-perform men, including myself.

Another factor is padding. Women have an in-born fear of physical injury to their bodies. With full padding, this fear is over come and they can concentrate fully on their technique. And I suspect that the men do most of the attacking and thus commiting themselves to counter attacks. We all know that taking a defensive position in combat have certain advantages.
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#189223 - 11/09/05 12:40 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Neko456 Offline
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History does report females being warriors on the battle grounds. Your analogy is almost exactly what happened the men after the second round the men charged in over confident like you poor innocent victim take this, and were angles off and countered quickly and precisely. Some were disarmed and standing there with there pants down so to speak.

Initially the 1st round was sure over confidence all the men lost. 2nd round was spirited exchanges still over confident and most of the men lost. 3rd round was heated quick exchanges and quick resolution, women won most, not all but most.

Could have been the luck of the draw. Again there were no finishing moves or prolonged inside fighting. Just entry, attack, counter..., exits.

JoelM thats opening a can of worms, I'll let you answer/ponder your own question, I'm just reporting the what happened.
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#189224 - 11/09/05 12:46 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
JoelM Offline
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I'm not opening the can of worms, I'm just trying to figure out what you're saying.

It seems that since you won't answer that you do see women as inferior.

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#189225 - 11/09/05 04:01 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: JoelM]
Neko456 Offline
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Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Ok I'll bite I see women as sheltered, smaller framed people, with bodies that naturally can't pack as much muscle on, less competitive by nature and they think with the right side of their brain. But in this event they as I stated.

Initially the 1st round was sure over confidence all the men lost. 2nd round was spirited exchanges still over confident and most of the men lost. 3rd round was heated quick exchanges and quick resolution, WOMEN WON MOST time.

Could have been the luck of the draw. Again there were no finishing moves or prolonged inside fighting. Just entry, attack, counter..., exits.

JoelM I'm just reporting the what happened. It seems you have a problem imagining what I saw. Would you like to reason why or elaborate on why U question? I can't change what happened unskilled and skilled lost to skilled Women.

I mean who r what am gonna believe U or my lying eyes.
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#189226 - 11/10/05 01:40 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
Belnick Offline
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Registered: 11/15/04
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umm with weapons I dont doubt they can be as good or better than men

I thought we talked about normal fighting, bigger stronger vs a girl
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#189227 - 11/10/05 03:05 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
Chanters Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 559
Loc: Manchester, UK
Quote:

and they think with the right side of their brain




So you're saying women can't do any of the following?:

uses logic
detail oriented
facts rule
words and language
present and past
math and science
can comprehend
knowing
acknowledges
order/pattern perception
knows object name
reality based
forms strategies
practical
safe

These are all functions of the left side of the brain.

Also in saying that do you assume that all men only use the left side of their brain?

Neko, where did you get such an inaccurate statement from?

You sure know how to impress the ladies!
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#189228 - 11/10/05 03:27 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Chanters]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia

To be fair to Neko, he did say "think" with the right side; no where did he say women "use" ONLY the right side.

Use your brain man, Neko whether its left or right, we have some pretty tough female warriors here; what have I got myself into?
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#189229 - 11/10/05 10:59 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Chanters]
Neko456 Offline
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Registered: 01/18/05
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Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Ok there U go that can or worms, I retract my statement on right side of their brain. I should have said they use more of that side of their brain. But lets just X the way they think comment agree to this. They think differently then men and multi-task better whihc is what stick fighting deals with. IMHO.

Hey Chanter U guys Won. You beat up on some muscular fighting men of the near or simliar skill. What do you want me to be politically correct too???
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#189230 - 11/10/05 11:04 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Neko456 Offline
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Thanks for clearing that up, U should be an attorney. I did say what he said I said. Should I throw myself to mercy of the court. See what you started Joelm. Hey can I use the devil/Jolem made me say it or do it.

Good Plead.

Winning is not good enough you got to say how they think right, too. Amazons I'm on your side.
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#189231 - 11/10/05 11:09 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Belnick]
Neko456 Offline
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Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
It was hard for these guys to experince it too, we tried to cheer them on but they couldn't pull it out.

A Muscular fighting Man like yourself might avoid looking in a mirror for days, not wanting to face the truth a women beat me in a meet. Belinck sparring a women in stick fighting watch out!!!!
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#189232 - 11/10/05 11:10 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
JoelM Offline
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Loc: Georgia, USA
You started this with your comments, not me.

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#189233 - 11/10/05 11:37 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
Vlad Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/09/05
Posts: 6
When I can't get in the fight wile fighting someone (girl, friend) I on purpose miss one punch in my face. After one punch I loss all my hesitation and attachments. Go wild and insane.

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#189234 - 11/10/05 12:35 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Vlad]
Neko456 Offline
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Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
The 2nd and 3rd round there was a lot of growling and shouting a skilled woman thats used to training with men is not intimidated by this and took them out smiling through their head gear.

GOING WILD AND INSANE, won't stop a stick form richcoeeting off your headgear and wrist and head again. Thats what got the men in trouble thinking these women were afraid of them. Belinck. Not!!!
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#189235 - 11/10/05 10:38 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Vlad]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Registered: 08/26/04
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Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

Go wild and insane.





Not sure what you were using, but you were using neither your left nor right brain
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#189236 - 11/11/05 03:06 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
Chanters Offline
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Quote:

What do you want me to be politically correct too???



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#189237 - 11/11/05 03:09 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Chanters Offline
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Loc: Manchester, UK
Or maybe neither!!
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#189238 - 11/13/05 06:22 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
Belnick Offline
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Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 1165
Loc: SWEDEN
Quote:


GOING WILD AND INSANE, won't stop a stick form richcoeeting off your headgear and wrist and head again. Thats what got the men in trouble thinking these women were afraid of them. Belinck. Not!!!




Quote:


A Muscular fighting Man like yourself might avoid looking in a mirror for days, not wanting to face the truth a women beat me in a meet. Belinck sparring a women in stick fighting watch out!!!!




lay off the suger, you start to sound insane and your spelling is deteriorating

and reread(yea u know, read them one more time so you can understand what they say) all the posts again

then again, someone that was insane would not do that...
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#189239 - 11/14/05 05:02 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Belnick]
Neko456 Offline
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Hey I am at working typing in between major Processing so forgive me if my grammar or spelling suffer its from just glancing and flipping screens, typing a reply, flip a screen code some program.

I was not trying to sugar coat anything just wanting to know
how would your ego deal with a women out speeding you and having better timing then you, with a stick at a range where your size and strength advanatage was nultralized. Match started with just the tips of the stick touch nothing else!!!

Think about it, it really don't sound like Sugar to me. It could happen, best prepare for it mentally just in case.


Edited by Neko456 (11/14/05 05:04 PM)
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#189240 - 11/14/05 10:05 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

with a stick at a range where your size and strength advanatage was nultralized





I would like to speculate a bit here to put the whole issue into a different perspective, if I may?

Suppose it is not a competition for points, but a real fight. Yes, the man will get hit, but he is going to take the hits (assuming no bladed weapons, just sticks) hanker down and take the pain and then charge at the women and grab, whether it's the sticks or her. Here on, the women's advantage is over.

Am I stating the obvious? or am I obviously off topic?
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#189241 - 11/15/05 08:34 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: ButterflyPalm]
still wadowoman Offline
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Registered: 04/10/04
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Butterflypalm,

Now we are out of the competition and into the realms of self defence.

I weigh around 130 pounds and I agree with you that I am less physically strong than the average man. However, I strongly disagree that if a woman my size hit you with a stick you would be able to just take the pain and charge the woman.

Would you be able to charge with a broken leg? Or if you were unconcious? Do you seriously believe that a woman would be incapable of achieving either of those things just because she is female and smaller than you?

I hope I have misunderstood what you are saying. Please correct me if I have.
Sharon
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#189242 - 11/15/05 08:35 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: still wadowoman]
harlan Offline
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Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
'Just sticks.'

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#189243 - 11/15/05 11:41 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Butterflypalm
I think you may have made a point that it was limited competition for points BUT.. One warrior guy like you and Belinck totally dominated some of the women, with his vicisous all out attack. He'd scream and jump up and smash them on top their head, until the 3rd round where this lady stabbed him in the face of his helmet getting their before his caveman smash. Evading it by stepping behind him. These girls were good, screaming/Scaring some of them didn't work.

If extended inside fighting was allowed I agree that the results would probablly have been different.

As Butterflypalm alluded to, A broken leg won't stop a real MAN!!

Being unconcisous just Might, Maybe?
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#189244 - 11/15/05 11:47 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
UofM Shorin Ryu Offline
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Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 981
I can't believe fighting girls spawned 10 pages.....

I'm a Breaker, therefore I can beat any woman EVER, regardless of experience in MA. That's right!
Christie, Goujo-girl, Sharon, Reiki, and all the rest would get OWNED in a fight against me.....


And guys, I would like white roses and bagpipes at my funeral please......
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#189245 - 11/16/05 11:25 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: UofM Shorin Ryu]
Foundation Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 343
Don't worry we'll take care of your funeral, is it ok if you get flamed -uh wait, I actually meant to say cremated-

Women can defeat men and vice versa, it all depends on training.
I suppose you all heard stories of great Eastern masters, which were all very old and would easily be overpowered by younger men if it came down on strength, but still they were unbeatable.
Strength is just a factor in combat, it doesn't determine the fight on it's own.
Besides, women can be way stronger than they are, but I have yet to see a women do powertraining. I knew a girl once that did gymnastics (not on the floor, but on the rings and things like that) and she was stronger than most boys in the class, just to show how relative the "man is stronger than woman" thing is. (I'm not saying women are stronger than man, with the same training a man will usually be stronger, but the difference would be smaller than it usually is IF they train the same)
Perhaps my view is distorted since I don't know a lot of serious martial artists personally, and the gym where I train all the women train for muscle endurance, but I think this is usually true.

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#189246 - 11/17/05 01:12 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Foundation]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

is it ok if you get flamed




The best of Belgium humour


Still Wadowoman.

I suppose my 'speculation' (I was careful enough to tactfully preface it as such) was much like asking which is the best MA.

I do agree that a few good stick hits from a woman (especially if trained) or a man (even if untrained) can do damage.

But, unless it is a direct hard hit to the head (not glancing), to actually incapacitate, like a broken arm (which will be tensed up in these situations) or a leg (which requires the attacker to bend / lower his/her body, and so not so useful in a real fight) and the ribs are not easy to get at, I'll say it is still argueable. And a fast moving target like a charging man intent on serious harm is not so easy to target the kind of target on his body you want or like to have. In a points competition, a hit, whether it is incapacitating or not, is a point.

It can be said of course that this applies equally to a male attacker on another male. But my original speculation was if a woman, even with a stick, is somehow grabbed, either her body or her stick, the initial percieved advantage of having a stick may be lost AND she will still need other fighting skills to survive. So I do agree with you that any blow with her stick had better be knock-out ones.

All I am saying is the odds are stacked unevenly, and a woman with a stick may not necessarily even up the odds fully in her favour, and the less rules there are, the more uneven.

On another point (another can of worms, perhaps?) I get the feeling that to-day's women (pardon my gross generalisation) are, in a telepathic global collective feminine quest, out to disprove / dispel the historical image of a 'weaker' sex.

Just last night at a chi kung class a woman was demonstrating (to her friends) her back-fist strike. I was in a jovial mood and so I asked her to strike my forearm, which I know has some conditioning done (to take a stick hit by the way) She went into her stance, tensed her fist and did a swinging downward back-fist strike on my right forearm. On the moment of contact, I could see the pain she felt in her eyes and the quick unconscious massage with the other hand. I asked with concerned about the pain. She answered, with all seriousness, that there was no pain. I left it at that.
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#189247 - 11/17/05 03:10 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: UofM Shorin Ryu]
Belnick Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 1165
Loc: SWEDEN
Quote:

I can't believe fighting girls spawned 10 pages.....

I'm a Breaker, therefore I can beat any woman EVER, regardless of experience in MA. That's right!
Christie, Goujo-girl, Sharon, Reiki, and all the rest would get OWNED in a fight against me.....


And guys, I would like white roses and bagpipes at my funeral please......




10 ???

dude set it to 99 or 100 post per page instead flipping pages all the time :P
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#189248 - 11/17/05 07:32 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: ButterflyPalm]
still wadowoman Offline
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Registered: 04/10/04
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BP,

I agree with you that most women are most usually smaller and physically weaker than most men.

We were talking about self defence, not training. The kind of man who would attack a woman is most probably NOT the kind of man who has trained for years the way you have.

I think that most unarmed and untrained attackers could and would be hurt by a woman trained with a stick, at least enough to make good her escape. In my view, if she escapes unharmed or relatively unharmed, she has "won"
Sharon
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#189249 - 11/17/05 12:26 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: ButterflyPalm]
Neko456 Offline
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Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Zexon, Wonder woman, Alias, Super girl, Dark Angle, the Chemealon, Halloween 1,2,3, Scream 1&2 and others all show women as the lead heroins that save or survive past the stupid males. I heard a woman friend say that she like such shows because they shows women as strong powerful characters. Giving some kind of false security, I've even heard women comment on whipping some guys a$$, Most MA women understand their limitations and have a better chance of doing it, if need be. Working with men smashes false security, even a women that lifts more weigh then a fit man isn't his equal toward power extertion wise.

But Buuterflypalm U do make a good point except a conditioned forearm is different then the swallow senstive spots like the temple, chin, eye, solar plex or groin some the common target for back fist. So that little test was a little unfair.

The topic I believe was competition not real fighting. And yes, fellow MA Women, I know of some women that can and have handle themselves on the street. But butterflypalm made a good point except for fish and insect maybe others, most male animals are bigger and more powerful. Trying to be P.C.

But in this point match most of the women won, even number teams it ended up 1 male member (with cave man slam) vs. 4 women and 2 males on the other side. The 1 guy eventually lost to one of the girls, I mean WOMEN.


Edited by Neko456 (11/17/05 12:36 PM)
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#189250 - 11/17/05 12:34 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
BrianS Offline
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My sister is 4yrs older than me. When I was in 7th grade she beat up a bully that was picking on me. They were both in 10th. She is 5'0" and weighs 95lbs. She's like a chihuaha on acid in a fight!
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#189251 - 11/17/05 12:44 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: BrianS]
Neko456 Offline
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My older sister did the same but she was more like a Tiger cat, she knew how to use her nails. I never seen her take a good shot though from a man, usually he stands there smiling waiting to be clawed up.

Girls are stronger then most guys until the guy gets 13-16yrs of age IMO. Then the fight in the dog kicks in, not size. Most women are not taught to be fighters unless they have brothers. I know several girls that could whip some boys in the 10th-12th grade in fist it cuffs, these girls had plenty of brother and could go. Rare but true.

But Competition was the topic.
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#189252 - 11/17/05 03:04 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
Foundation Offline
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Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 343
Quote:

Working with men smashes false security, even a women that lifts more weigh then a fit man isn't his equal toward power extertion wise.



I disagree that a fit woman that lifts more weight than a fit man isn't as powerfull as that man. What makes you think that the man (which is obviously weaker since he can't lift as much) is still more powerfull than the woman, assuming they both have the same skill level?

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#189253 - 11/17/05 05:17 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Neko456]
funstick5000 Offline
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Quote:

Girls are stronger then most guys until the guy gets 13-16yrs of age IMO. Then the fight in the dog kicks in, not size. Most women are not taught to be fighters unless they have brothers. I know several girls that could whip some boys in the 10th-12th grade in fist it cuffs, these girls had plenty of brother and could go. Rare but true.



i'd agree with that going by me and my sister. i'd like to add she starts most of the fights.
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#189254 - 11/17/05 05:25 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Foundation]
Neko456 Offline
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Body mass and bone structure just like a small man that can bench press more then a bigger man, in overall strength the bigger man maybe still strongest because he IS BIGGER. Being stronger in one lift doesn't make him strongest. Its not quite the same because the bigger guy man, may can swaut/leg press or dead lift more.

But women are geneticly lighter framed and bones are smaller no matter how much muscle they pack around them. Not saying that this fit woman can't knock the fit man out, it would be harder but she could. Strenght is not that much a factor concerning technique.

Its not quite apples and oranges but it is more like Watermelon and Cataloupe. One made softer on purpose no matter how big it gets its still a Cataloupe. Both are melons but...

I'm not downing women just stating a fact a 5'5" man 9 times out 10 will be stronger over all then a 5'5" woman both weighing the same. bc horomones, muscles & bone density, if both were fit the man would weigh more bc of his muscle & bone structure.

Am I senseing a Zexon complex? Lets keep it real.
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#189255 - 11/19/05 02:57 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
TaeKwonMiles Offline
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Registered: 11/16/05
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Loc: Cincinati, Ohio, United States
I agree. Im not sexiest but I believe that most girls are not as aggresive. strong, or as skill ful of boys if they were the same belt level. I have seen cases that this is not true but I think that girls should be fighting with girls and boys should be fighting with boys in competition.

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#189256 - 11/19/05 10:21 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: TaeKwonMiles]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Your popularity with the girls on this Forum is going to dip by MILES
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#189257 - 11/20/05 12:02 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: ButterflyPalm]
still wadowoman Offline
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Registered: 04/10/04
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Quote:


Your popularity with the girls on this Forum is going to dip by MILES




Ditto all the karatekas - male and female.
Sharon
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#189258 - 12/08/05 03:27 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
Clint Offline
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Don't worry, as you get older you will be put in junior divisions where the boys and girls are in separate divisions.
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#189259 - 12/09/05 10:49 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Clint]
funstick5000 Offline
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i don't compete any more. i don't see the value, but i think thats another topic (a very exhausted one) entirely.
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#189260 - 03/13/06 06:35 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
BudoBroad Offline
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In my opinion, if a girl is going to enter a co-ed competition or a practice fight, she should know what she's getting herself into. If I were to enter a co-ed competition, I wouldn't want my opponents to hold back because I would want the experience to show the areas I'm weak in.

(I think you should have gone for that silver! )
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#189261 - 03/14/06 01:41 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: TaeKwonMiles]
eyrie Offline
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Just as well you weren't born a male Black Widow spider or a Praying Mantis....

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#189262 - 03/19/06 07:24 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: eyrie]
Joe7987 Offline
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Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 317
Loc: Orlando, FL
I know this topics been dead for a few days... but I'd just like to add...

If a girl stands toe to toe with me in a competition. I will not take it easy on her. I'll fight her the same as if I was fighting a guy. She chose to be there. She trained as much as I have. She trained in fighting... and a lot of girls want to prove themselves.... and I know for a fact that it's going to be hell on my end for that reason.

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#189263 - 04/16/06 06:36 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: horizon]
Blaise Offline
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Registered: 01/05/06
Posts: 38
I'm a girl, and in general my instructor tries to match me against girls. But when I fight against guys I have more respect for them if they go their hardest on me, since I'm not a weak little girl and can defend myself and hit back. We're sparring as equals. I don't even pay attention to the genders. Personally I would be very annoyed if I saw a guy fight excellently against another guy, and then when it came to be my turn to go easier because I'm a girl. Fighting easier against me isn't going to make me any better.

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#189264 - 04/17/06 06:18 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Blaise]
DLove Offline
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Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 82
In ICMAA events there is not a seperation between girls and boys, they will spar each other in continuous sparring competiton, the seperation starts at the 18 year old age bracket, then wemon will compete each other and the men each other.

My 15 year old daughter won 2nd place in the power hands competition (metered focus mitt) competeing against boys her age, I could see the agony in the faces when she hit harder than most of the boys , trust me it really showed in the sparring competition, she came in second again and was hitting the boys just as hard as they were hitting her.

Me , I learned the hard way while competing, a friend of mine wife really took it to me during a finals match, she was not holding nothing back , but torward the end I got over the I'm not hitting a girl stuff and decided that I had took enough beating and started giving it back...I ended up beating her by 1 point....ever since then man or women, it dosent matter, you step up , you had better be ready to play hard ball.


Edited by DLove (04/17/06 06:21 PM)

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#189265 - 04/21/06 05:15 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: DLove]
jojo_jinx Offline
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Registered: 04/19/06
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I'm a female and I'd say that women don't enter competitions so they can be taken easy on. If I won a competition because my opponent was going "aw, she's small/ a girl/ etc etc", I'd be annoyed because it wouldn't be in my eyes a proper win. I'd want both sides to try hard.

In my view, women enter to compete and do their best. So do men. How would you feel if somebody looked at you, and then took it easy on you because of who you were? I bet you wouldn't like it, well, if it was me, I wouldn't like it. This is a place where you are supposed to hit, and the women who join, normally know what they are getting into.

Also, you could think of it as making sure women are more ready for the "real" world? I know the rules of competition are very different to getting attacked in the street/ in your home, but in real life, attackers don't take it easy. I entered my first competition to test my abilities, see how much I had learned, and get a taste or what it is like to actually be in a fight, even if the fight had rules and was much more fair than the street. Then after the fight, I knew what to brush up on and concentrate on improving, so I could improve my skills and if there was really no other way, I could fight better in a real attacker situation. If you fight a woman, you might learn a few things yourself.

There is a big difference between bullying and fighting fairly in a competition that the female has said "yes, I'll fight in this". Try your best You might actually be surprised at how good and challenging some women are at fighting.

Hope I've got through what I was trying to say. More or less;

taking it easy on a women in competition = boring and disappointing for both of you, and not the best learning experience



Ooh, just a little note; where I have trained, we fight with both males and females, and swap regularly with who we are fighting with. Sometimes we even get put purposefully with a male as our partner, so we are not used to just fighting against our own gender. In that way, sometimes I am more likely to be fighting and sparing with a guy, than with a girl!


Edited by jojo_jinx (04/21/06 05:20 AM)

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#189266 - 04/22/06 03:59 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
jliu Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 66
Loc: Montville, NJ, USA
well, I used to have this problem. However, the dojo i attended had vicious females, so it didn't take much time for me to realize that letting loose of my morals was better than getting my ass kicked each and every time.
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#189267 - 04/26/06 04:23 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: jliu]
Mike_L Offline
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Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 420
Loc: Rio Rancho NM/Louisville KY (U...
I spar a few girls at my dojang, they seemed to be very fast. So it was good training to get a contrast in style, i am one of the fastest guys in my school, but the girls are still faster most of the time.

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#189268 - 04/28/06 01:34 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Mike_L]
GuitarNinja Offline
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Registered: 03/17/06
Posts: 182
Quote:

I spar a few girls at my dojang, they seemed to be very fast. So it was good training to get a contrast in style, i am one of the fastest guys in my school, but the girls are still faster most of the time.




Do you find thats because they are actually physically faster, or because their movements are naturally more graceful making them "swifter" ???
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#189269 - 10/26/06 01:15 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: GuitarNinja]
Chen Zen Offline
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Pound Em!! lol. jk. Hit them but not like a man. However you should hit them enough that you arent robbing them of good training and giving them false confidence.
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#189270 - 11/02/06 05:11 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Chen Zen]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
I hate fihting chicks cant do anything to them
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#189271 - 11/02/06 11:37 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: crablord]
Chen Zen Offline
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Registered: 02/09/03
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Then you arent helping them Crabby! Do you like the girls in your class? If so, it would be better to see them lose in the gym and improve than get beat up outside it right? Dont cheat them, hit em.
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#189272 - 11/02/06 01:14 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Chen Zen]
Supremor Offline
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Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Quote:

Dont cheat them, hit em.




lol, that sounded bad

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#189273 - 11/02/06 01:40 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Supremor]
Chen Zen Offline
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Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Im in a funny mood today. I accidently told hedkicker he's old! So much so that Ed reprimanded me for it, though I meant it as a compliment. But seriously, hit them. Dont lessen there training by holding back and giving them false confidence.
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#189274 - 11/03/06 09:00 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Chen Zen]
crablord Offline
th3 t4sty sn4ck

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 1530
Loc: Australia, QLD, GC
you know how bad you would look smacking the crap out of some chick? I just cant do it lol...
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#189275 - 11/03/06 11:16 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: crablord]
Supremor Offline
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Registered: 07/22/04
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Quote:


you know how bad you would look smacking the crap out of some chick?




Chen isn't advocating beating people up, he's saying that you should use the same contact you use with other people, but still use the same respect and remember to fight to their level of ability. Not just to charge in throwing haymakers.

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#189276 - 11/03/06 08:56 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Chen Zen]
TeK9 Offline
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Registered: 12/22/05
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Loc: Northern California, USA
Yo chen, when did you lose your green aura?
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#189277 - 11/03/06 09:03 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
TeK9 Offline
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Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Remember that girl is there for a reason. If she has taken the liberty to compete in a tournament you should afford her the respect due to a competitor. If you see she is not a strong competitor you should push her and make her se what she is lacking. You should not have gone easy on her. Nor shold you go all out either. Get over yourself, she is a fellow marial artist, she is learning to handle herself, and if she can[t get the proper respect from her fellow artist than how is she going o learn to handle herself against a real assailant her means to due her erious harm?


At the school I practice in, we do olympic style sparring. While I do not go full out on the femal opponenets, I don't hold back much either. I do not use ful power in techniques, but I try to overwhelm them to see exactly how tey will react. Perhaps I am fortunae to have some real talented athletes in my school who give as good as they get. When they attack they are fully commited to scoring and landing that blow at full contact, their timing and foot work is so honed that they do not need to block, they use footwork to avoid and evade and strke back right when their opponenets are at their weakest.

Don't let your machismo blind you from the reason she is there, she is there to learn and you should help her by not disrespecting her by holding completely back.
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#189278 - 11/03/06 09:23 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: TeK9]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Women should be sparred with the same way you would spar with a man - by training level. You work to their level and a bit beyond to help them grow. To hold way back is as pointless as pounding the tar out of them. No one gets anything from that.

Experience - not gender, race, social class or anything else.
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#189279 - 11/04/06 07:13 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: MattJ]
pepto_bismol Offline
infinite kudos

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 480
Quote:

Women should be sparred with the same way you would spar with a man - by training level. You work to their level and a bit beyond to help them grow. To hold way back is as pointless as pounding the tar out of them. No one gets anything from that.

Experience - not gender, race, social class or anything else.




Competition is competition. I would not want to "train" my opponent in a competition. I would want to beat him/her.

Are you implying that you should hold back in tournaments?
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#189280 - 11/04/06 11:45 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: pepto_bismol]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Competition is competition. I would not want to "train" my opponent in a competition. I would want to beat him/her.

Are you implying that you should hold back in tournaments?




I was referring to class training, not tournaments. But the idea of "controlled ownage" is a valid one for tourneys as well. Are you implying you would intentionally bulldoze someone of clearly lesser skill?
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#189281 - 11/05/06 01:17 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: MattJ]
pepto_bismol Offline
infinite kudos

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 480
Quote:

Quote:

Competition is competition. I would not want to "train" my opponent in a competition. I would want to beat him/her.

Are you implying that you should hold back in tournaments?




I was referring to class training, not tournaments. But the idea of "controlled ownage" is a valid one for tourneys as well. Are you implying you would intentionally bulldoze someone of clearly lesser skill?




If they are fighting against me in a tournament (ussualy put in groups by "rank") Then I can only assume that every opponet is Bill Wallace. If they are not ready to compete, then they shouldn't compete. There is no reason "not" to bulldoze the opponet.

So yes, I am implying I will attempt to bulldoze all opponets in the ring, the level of skill is irrelevant.
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#189282 - 11/05/06 09:21 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: MattJ]
celest Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/06
Posts: 42
Loc: Singapore
Hi, I'm 20 years old and I'm new here. I was browsing through the forum when this post caught my eye. I started sport ju-jitsu about six months ago and I'm a white belt who's going for yellow belt grading next month. In addition, I am one of the very few girls in my dojo.

I've sparred with guys, but most of the time, it's with the coloured belts rather than the white belts. While they don't hold back too much when I spar with them, e.g. they will not hesitate to throw or sweep me several times in a row, they actually make sure that my breakfalls are somewhat gentle and that I'm perfectly fine before starting again.

In addition, they're always giving me advice like why they do what they do, how I should look fiercer and so on, which I find very helpful. I've learnt a lot from them.

However, with all that said, there was this orange belt guy who refused to attack (punches, kicks and throws; groundwork training was on another day) and only defended himself. After a while, the Sensei switched him to another guy partner who was more willing to attack.

I haven't really sparred properly with a guy in groundwork before, so I can't comment on that.

Bottomline: It's okay to spar with girls in training, with a few modifications here and there like lesser strength. We can take it; that's why we're in the class in the first place, right?

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#189283 - 11/05/06 09:50 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: celest]
Supremor Offline
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Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
very nicely put celest, welcome to the forums

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#189284 - 11/06/06 04:40 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Supremor]
celest Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/06
Posts: 42
Loc: Singapore
Thanks!

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#189285 - 11/06/06 12:07 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: celest]
pacifist Offline
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Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 7
Quote:

Bottomline: It's okay to spar with girls in training, with a few modifications here and there like lesser strength. We can take it; that's why we're in the class in the first place, right?





If you mean not grabbing girls across the chest as you throw them i agree. I dont think you should reduce your strength due to gender but due to skill. I wouldn't take it easy on the female who is a sash above me and then attack a lower grade male as vicously as possible.

I dont enter competitions but when we spar i dont go easy because of gender. It doesnt help either of you. I give advice to lower grades and try my best against higher ones.

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#189286 - 11/07/06 01:50 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: celest]
TeK9 Offline
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Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Hi Celest, welcome to the forum.

Somethig that I have seen in different schools of MA is that woman sem more prepared for sparring in judo/jujutsu/bjj classes than they do in striking arts. This is not to say that in striking arts woman are less prepared for sparring because I happen to be part of a school which has several woman state champions.

But it just seems that woman are far less intimidated by grappling than they are with striking an opponenet. Because of my observations I'm ofthe opinion that woman would benefit far more from a grappling school than from a striking school. Does anyone agree? Or has anone seen similar observations?
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#189287 - 11/07/06 06:00 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
TheFinalOption Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 55
Loc: Colorado
Well I've only read a couple pages of this thread, and I'll read some more later, but for now I'll just put in my two cents.

At my sparring class there is no division of gender, size, or experience. It was about 1/2 contact with no hits below the waist, and thin foam hand/foot protectors. Most people kept to manageable opponents, but there is nothing stopping a noobie from getting stomped by the sensei if he so requesed. This being the case, I quickly became accustomed to fighting bigger, stronger, faster guys than myself, and lost more often than not, but it tought me not to hold back (or at least to use minimal necessary restraint.)

There were a few girls in the class, but they rarely fought with guys. But I thought that fighting some of them could benefit both parties. So the first girl I fought was a short, squat blackbelt. I felt a little squeemish at the idea of really going at it, for fear of looking like a bully or a**hole. Well, she stomped me pretty good. The second time I fought a girl who was about the same size I was ruthless and ultimately stopped the match when I winded her with a spinning back kick. Well, she bitched at me for a minute, and then I never saw her in class again. Two girls, two entirely different attitudes.

I would conclude that we can draw no generic conclusions about the combat suitability of the female gender and expect them to hold up.
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#189288 - 11/07/06 06:26 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: TheFinalOption]
pepto_bismol Offline
infinite kudos

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 480


The question was about tournaments... not about training in class.
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#189289 - 11/07/06 06:56 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: pepto_bismol]
TheFinalOption Offline
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Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 55
Loc: Colorado
No, the question was not about tournaments. Re-read it. What the question WAS about was how people feel about hitting girls in martial arts in general. The OP merely used the tournament as an example to illustrate his concept. And I wouldn't say hitting in my class is any less intense than it is in many competitions, if you were insinuating that. Personally, I do not currently plan on fighting in tournaments, as I can do the same thing with much less BS in a simple sparring class.
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#189290 - 11/07/06 09:14 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
pepto_bismol Offline
infinite kudos

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 480
Quote:

No, the question was not about tournaments. Re-read it. What the question WAS about was how people feel about hitting girls in martial arts in general. The OP merely used the tournament as an example to illustrate his concept. And I wouldn't say hitting in my class is any less intense than it is in many competitions, if you were insinuating that. Personally, I do not currently plan on fighting in tournaments, as I can do the same thing with much less BS in a simple sparring class.




Fighting in class is way less intense then competitions, and since you seem to have never competed in a tournament... you can not determine whether fighting in the dojo is as rough as fighting in a tournament.

Now are you sure he meant in "general"?

and the thread is named "fighting girls in competition"

hmm.... maybe it is you that needs to re-read it
Never in his original post does he say in "general"
Quote:

i couldn't bring myself to hit her from the saying that had been pounded into me for years. has anyone else had this problem?

(and if it wasn't for her i would have been silver not joint bronze lol grrr )


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#189291 - 11/07/06 09:32 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: pepto_bismol]
clmibb Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 1035
Loc: South Texas, US
I personally have no problem hitting girls in class or in competition. I'll go all out on them

Casey
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#189292 - 11/07/06 10:51 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: pepto_bismol]
TheFinalOption Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 55
Loc: Colorado
I'm not sure what you mean by tournament fighting being "way more intense." From what I've heard a lot of tournaments involve point sparring. I don't see how point sparring, especially with lots of gear, is supposed to be "more intense" than continuous semi/full contact sparring with minimal pads. Sure, there's more pressure to succeed, but the actual combat itself probably isn't more intense, or at least not more painful. Also usually tournaments involve skill and/or weight classes. That's a bit different from fighting black belts twice your size. Really I think it depends on how you do things in your dojo, along with the terms of the tournament. Obviously high level tournaments with a lot of contact can be pretty brutal. I've seen some pretty wicked looking tournaments, along with a lot of really pathetic looking tournaments.

Also, please note that competition doesn't have to mean "tournament." As far as I'm concerned, any and every fight between two determined parties is a "competition."

You might think I'm just an uneducated, inexperienced noob, but you come off as rather arrogant ("I fight in tournaments, and am more hardcore than thou")
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#189293 - 11/08/06 10:23 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: TheFinalOption]
pepto_bismol Offline
infinite kudos

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 480
Quote:

I'm not sure what you mean by tournament fighting being "way more intense." From what I've heard a lot of tournaments involve point sparring. I don't see how point sparring, especially with lots of gear, is supposed to be "more intense" than continuous semi/full contact sparring with minimal pads. Sure, there's more pressure to succeed, but the actual combat itself probably isn't more intense, or at least not more painful. Also usually tournaments involve skill and/or weight classes. That's a bit different from fighting black belts twice your size. Really I think it depends on how you do things in your dojo, along with the terms of the tournament. Obviously high level tournaments with a lot of contact can be pretty brutal. I've seen some pretty wicked looking tournaments, along with a lot of really pathetic looking tournaments.

Also, please note that competition doesn't have to mean "tournament." As far as I'm concerned, any and every fight between two determined parties is a "competition."

You might think I'm just an uneducated, inexperienced noob, but you come off as rather arrogant ("I fight in tournaments, and am more hardcore than thou")




I'm just saying that I don't think one can make a fair judgement about something before they actually experience it.

And do you play soccer, or basketball or any other sport?

Sure, practice can be hard.

But the games are where you really need to be on the top of your game, and get to really test yourself.

+ when you fight people in your school you are used to how they fight, and are comfortable fighting them.

In a tournament you never know how good the other person is,

making it that much more interesting.
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#189294 - 11/09/06 12:05 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: pepto_bismol]
TheFinalOption Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 55
Loc: Colorado
True, tournaments do have a degree of unpredictability that you can't get in a dojo. Yes, I did play soccer a while back (before MA.) And, although we really had to struggle in games, practice scrimages also presented their own sets of challenges- like, for example, the fact that many of our practice games were in pouring rain and other conditions that would ordinarily get regular games cancelled. I guess my point is that while a tournament may have more of a certain kind of intensity, it's quite possible that a dojo encounter could have more of a different kind of intensity. You might not know at all what the guy on the competition floor is capable of, but sometimes ignorance is bliss compared to knowing the other guy broke someone's face the last class, and now its your turn...
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#189295 - 11/09/06 12:21 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: pepto_bismol]
TheFinalOption Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 55
Loc: Colorado
I might also add that due to the belt-centric nature of tournaments, right now I probably couldn't even get into one if I wanted to, and if I could I'd almost certainly be undermatched. I don't have patience for learning katas (which I view as largely pointless and a waste of my training time) and put my emphasis on kumite instead, and as such, my belt is white. I feel I have the skill necessary to take on higher belts if I was allowed, though...so my not being in tournaments is just as much a product of the structure of the MA system as my own will...
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#189296 - 11/09/06 09:36 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: pacifist]
celest Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/06
Posts: 42
Loc: Singapore
Yup, I believe in that too.

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#189297 - 11/09/06 11:24 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: TeK9]
celest Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/06
Posts: 42
Loc: Singapore
Quote:

But it just seems that woman are far less intimidated by grappling than they are with striking an opponenet. Because of my observations I'm ofthe opinion that woman would benefit far more from a grappling school than from a striking school. Does anyone agree? Or has anone seen similar observations?




Hi TeK9,

Thank you. I was just thinking about this (see quote) yesterday after I went for the punching, kicking and throws training for my sport ju-jitsu class yesterday night. I am fine with kicks and throws, but I'm uncomfortable with striking. I have no idea why really, but maybe it's because I'm not used to the punching motion at all.

As for grappling/groundwork, I usually train and spar with my sparring partner (we're the only two regular girls for a few months now) and personally, I feel that I enjoy groundwork more than upper body training. One of my Senseis always says that the girls usually enjoy groundwork more because they're more flexible and it's more practical in a rape situation, if it ever happens (hopefully NOT!).

I have done a little groundwork kata with white/yellow-belt guys before and I felt -very- uncomfortable, especially in the guard positions and even the mounted position. I could tell that they were uncomfortable too.

I'd still go for sport ju-jitsu which has both striking and groundwork components, rather than BJJ, which I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) focuses more on grappling. Who knows, I might need to punch a guy if he comes too close to me and it's not feasible to do a throw or kick. Heh.

Then again, that's just my take. =)

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#189298 - 11/09/06 12:47 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: celest]
tkd_high_green Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1031
Loc: Vermont
While I've never had the opportunity to spar against a guy in a tournament, I have sparred almost all of the guys in my class.

Early on in my training, I found that most of them held back when sparring. I don't know if it was because of my rank or my gender, but it really annoyed me. For instance, one student would kick over my head rather than kicking me in the head and say "point". I would much rather have had him kick me in the head. I would have learned much quicker to protect my head if he had.

Now thankfully, they treat me like one of the guys, and attack just as hard as they do anyone else.

I would have to say though, that the girl I fought at the last tournament, hit harder than anyone I've fought before. In class or in competition.

Laura

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#189299 - 11/09/06 05:40 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: tkd_high_green]
TheFinalOption Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 55
Loc: Colorado
lol

Nobody is more likely to go full force on a girl than another girl...that's how it usually is, it seems
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#189300 - 11/09/06 11:51 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: tkd_high_green]
celest Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/06
Posts: 42
Loc: Singapore
Hi Laura,

I'm still a white belt and pretty much clueless about some things that I do and I think the coloured belt guys know it, so they sometimes go easy. I guess I'll have to work my way up and see how it goes then.

For now, my sparring partner (also a white-belt girl) and I go all out on each other, especially in submission. Maybe it's because we're of the same gender and level and started around the same time.

Thank you for sharing your experience! =)

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#189301 - 05/09/08 05:07 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: funstick5000]
headstrongBB Offline
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Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 4
Not to make this sound bad, but I'm 13, short and not all that powerful. my last tournament I was fight men older than me, taller than me- adult black belts, 1st-3rd degrees. AND I WON. I beat every single one of them in point sparring. my point being, jsut because we're girls DOES NOT MEAN WE CAN'T FIGHT JSUT AS WELL AS GUYS.

In a way, I think that in sparring, it technically isn't hitting a girl. I've found that light taps, if succesful contact is made, are efficient. I've won tournaments using open fist techiniques, barely nudging the girls I was fighting. Point being- it's a competition, you punch or kick anyone as hard you want.
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#189302 - 05/10/08 02:20 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: headstrongBB]
Aezed Offline
Member

Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 90
Loc: Cupertino, CA, USA
I don't mean to be rude, but if adult male black belts are being defeated by 13 year old girls in sparring, perhaps the rules are suspect...or the black belts.

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#189303 - 05/12/08 07:28 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Aezed]
The_Master Offline
Banned. With extreme prejudice.

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 145
Loc: Australia. aka The Down Under
nah, that's the beauty of Martial Arts, it doesn't matter if ur a girl or guy, short or small. Martial Arts is SKILL, not brute strength. For instance in war, it's tactics and not pure numbers or brute force.
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#189304 - 05/12/08 09:47 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: The_Master]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

nah, that's the beauty of Martial Arts, it doesn't matter if ur a girl or guy, short or small.






Yes it does. Martial arts is an equalizer, but it's not magic. Size and strength DO matter.
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#189305 - 05/12/08 10:56 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: MattJ]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5811
Loc: USA
Matt J

Ab-so-freaking-lutly!
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#189306 - 05/13/08 02:13 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: cxt]
The_Master Offline
Banned. With extreme prejudice.

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 145
Loc: Australia. aka The Down Under
they matter, of course but MA gives u the best chance of actually beating a muscly giant.
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Use no way as way: JKD. Martial Arts is a way of life.

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#189307 - 05/13/08 11:56 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: MattJ]
everyone Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
Matt,

Size and weight do not matter at all. In fact being big and muscular may be a liability. (Assuming we are still talking about point sparring competitions.)

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#189308 - 05/13/08 12:43 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: everyone]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5811
Loc: USA
everyone

Maybe, many "point" matchs at open martial arts meets are little more than high speed pillow fights/and or games of "tag".

MattJ was not talking about such meaningless applications---least that is not how I read it.


Edited by cxt (05/13/08 12:44 PM)
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I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#189309 - 05/13/08 02:08 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: cxt]
everyone Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
cxt, I get that. I was just sarcasticly saying what you just said. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

But, this is a thread about "fighting girls in competition." not on the street. (That being re-stated) As the 13 year old girl said, she often defeats grown men blackbelts in competition. My guess is she is not stronger or heavier then her opponents.

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#189310 - 05/13/08 02:34 PM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: everyone]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
everyone -

I was actually addressing this post:

Quote:

nah, that's the beauty of Martial Arts, it doesn't matter if ur a girl or guy, short or small. Martial Arts is SKILL, not brute strength. For instance in war, it's tactics and not pure numbers or brute force.




The Master seemed to be implying that size and strength have no bearing in martial arts at all. A false proposition, as anyone that has trained for any length of time will know. And even in point-sparring, size (at least) matters. Taller opponents will have a better chance against shorter ones, unless there is a significant skill difference.
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#189311 - 05/14/08 01:44 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: everyone]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5811
Loc: USA
everyone

And I get that as well--I see it a totally possible in the manner in which many open meets are run.....which is why I could care less---so a 13 year old girl is a better pillow fighter?

Makes no difference to me and my training--in fact the more people that train in that manner the safer I will be.

I'm not irked BTW---enjoy your week
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I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#189312 - 05/14/08 03:21 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: cxt]
The_Master Offline
Banned. With extreme prejudice.

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 145
Loc: Australia. aka The Down Under
uhh i did not say size and strength have nothing to do with it, but skill is most valuable as well as speed.
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Use no way as way: JKD. Martial Arts is a way of life.

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#189313 - 05/14/08 07:56 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: horizon]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
Quote:

I was just curious about people's (read men) attitude towards women in martial arts. There is another interesting thread going on about women and martial arts.
[...]




I like to treat women the same as men in the dojo.
Some women are difficult to fight against because women (IMO) tend to rely more on technique over muscle then men. Which is a good approach.
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Ives

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#189314 - 05/14/08 10:31 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: Ives]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3331
Loc: Poland
There is a video of Backhold wrestling where the girl is beating the guys. As my coach said, "You'd better know what you're doing, cos she does!"
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#189315 - 05/21/08 07:09 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: trevek]
TwistingKick Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 194
Loc: UK (oxford)
When it comes to sparring girls at my kickboxing/boxing gym i tend to treat them the same as the guys but that is mainly because most of the girls at my gym are tougher than a lot of guys i know and they compete in full contact. When i used to spar in tkd i would go lighter on some girls depending on the rank/skill level.

Something i found interesting is a girl from a thaiboxing gym i trained at in thailand is scheduled to be fighting a thai guy in full muay thai rules full contact (i assume).

http://pub31.bravenet.com/forum/2595606398/show/764595

Just wondering what you guys think of this? I dont really agree with it and can only assume the thai guy will take a dive as i dont think a thai guy beating on a woman would go down too well for one of the most commercialised/touristy parts of thailand.
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#189316 - 07/30/08 08:50 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: horizon]
KickingAngel16 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 94
Loc: Dacula, GA
I don't like guys going easy on me since I'm a female. Women can kick butt too. My brother has the "don't hit a girl" thing in his head and it makes him a bad practice buddy. He won't even do a fake punch out of fear of actually hitting me.
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If you're tired, kick some more. Your opponent most likely has extra kicks to spare on you.

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#189317 - 07/30/08 09:59 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: KickingAngel16]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA


Edited by MattJ (07/30/08 10:22 AM)
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#189318 - 07/31/08 05:01 AM Re: Fighting girls in competition. [Re: MattJ]
KickingAngel16 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 94
Loc: Dacula, GA
Thanks. I'll show him.
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If you're tired, kick some more. Your opponent most likely has extra kicks to spare on you.

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