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#187485 - 09/20/05 12:14 PM Need a new sword!
investigio Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 2
Hi
Was hoping i could get some advice on buying a sword for tameshigiri practice. I have a budget of £600 $1000 US. Any help appreciated (have been looking at items from the imperial forge and Last legend but user advice is precious) thanks

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#187486 - 09/20/05 01:30 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: investigio]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Do a search on http://www.swordforum.com There are tons of reviews of swords in your price range.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#187487 - 09/20/05 05:48 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Charles Mahan]
investigio Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 2
Was wondering if anyone had experience of this blade (imperial forge folded steel katana) http://www.specialistswords.com/FoldedSteelSeries_Detail.asp?ID=3

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#187488 - 09/21/05 09:57 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: investigio]
Walter Wong Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts, United ...
I don't know much about Imperial Forge's swords standing up to the pressures of JSA practice.

Out of the 2, I would go with Last Legend. Bugei www.bugei.com sell excellent cutters as well. Can't go wrong with either of those 2. I'm just not familiar with Imperial Forge's products.
_________________________
www.BostonSamuraiArts.com

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#187489 - 10/09/05 11:02 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: investigio]
Shouji Offline
Member

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 272
Loc: VA
As long as the supplier offers a Warranty. But those swords look pretty damn fresh.
_________________________
The only thing a belt is good for is to hold your pants up

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#187490 - 10/10/05 08:43 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Shouji]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:

As long as the supplier offers a Warranty. But those swords look pretty damn fresh.




A warranty simply isn't good enough when the user intends to cut with it. If the sword breaks during cutting practice, it's awfully nice if the company that makes it replaces it for you. That of course does nothing for the friend of yours who took a piece of shrapnel in the eye, or for you when the broken end flips back around on you and impales itself in your leg, possibly doing crippling damage.

Take these things seriously folks. They are made to kill people. Try to make sure you don't buy one that is at risk of killing the wrong people.

All that said, I don't know squat about the manufacturer in question. This is not aimed at them, just a general warning.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#187491 - 10/22/05 04:19 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Charles Mahan]
aikidoka1159 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 33
Loc: Florida, USA
My sensei swears by Paul Chen swords. They have pretty reasonable prices and you can practice tameshigiri with them. Look them up. I'm looking to get the practical plus model.

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#187492 - 10/24/05 11:16 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: aikidoka1159]
Walter Wong Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts, United ...
I would stay away from the Practical series of Paul Chen for any serious Japanese sword art practice.

The best of Paul Chen is any of the Bugei exclusive line.
_________________________
www.BostonSamuraiArts.com

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#187493 - 10/25/05 10:16 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Walter Wong]
V34 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/05
Posts: 97
Loc: USA
I second Walter. Stay away from Paul Chen! Unless you have
the money to get a Bugei, which is made by Paul Chen. Bugei is alot more strict when it comes to QC. I have owned a few
PC katana's and never will again. Of course unless it is a
Bugei.. Good luck with your choices. Make sure you do alot
of research on katana's before you buy one. One of the best
places for info on any sword, but has a huge family of JSA
practitioners and also Bladesmith is sword forum
international. Here is the link.

GOOD LUCK, JASON..

http://swordforum.com/

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#187494 - 10/26/05 02:14 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: investigio]
thisguy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 81
Loc: fullerton CA
i would do some research into "powdered steal" swords. theys are supposed to be way stronger than the traditionally folded swords. you can supposedly hit the blade against some rebar and it will hold its edge. the only thing is the price factor. they can get really expensive. also make sure that u get all the correct features you want on your sword(blade, point, back of blade, temper, tsuba, sheath, and handle type)

oh and since i don't normally post on this section, ill just say that i don't do any sword work, but i do research on swords and other bladed weapons for collection purposes.

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#187495 - 10/26/05 09:02 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: thisguy]
Walter Wong Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts, United ...
_________________________
www.BostonSamuraiArts.com

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#187496 - 10/26/05 09:19 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Walter Wong]
V34 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/05
Posts: 97
Loc: USA
With all due respect swedish powder steel is not even close to being traditional.

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#187497 - 10/26/05 09:34 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Walter Wong]
Halley Offline
Member

Registered: 06/13/05
Posts: 126
Quote:

Here's some Swedish Powered Steel discussion.




First, it was the little paper ball with power inside, which you could apply to your blade. Now the power of the Swiss is in the steel itself! And I thought anime was just metaphorical.

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#187498 - 10/26/05 01:10 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: V34]
Benjamin1986 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 611
Loc: Republic of Texas
With all due respect, V34, why do several times more work with inferior materials to get an inferior result? Blades made from tamahagne steel are more fragile, not as hard, and not as tough as those that can be made from other steels. Tradition isn't the only factor that exists, and to many people, it isn't the most important.
_________________________
Fencing Club at UH

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#187499 - 10/26/05 03:18 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Benjamin1986]
V34 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/05
Posts: 97
Loc: USA
I DID THIS AS A TEST. I haven't posted in here in a while. The reason for this is because someone ripped me for not saying traditional terms as in nihonto. They also critisized
me for liking non-taditional Katana's. I love both non and traditional katana's and other swords. That is why I made that statement. This Forum is EXTREMELY CRITICAL ABOUT KATANA'S! SFI is alot more open minded and many people like both traditional and non.

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#187500 - 10/26/05 03:44 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Halley]
Walter Wong Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts, United ...
Yes, the Swedish have Powered steel! The steel glows.

Just kiddin. Thanks for catching that Ed.

I find this forum is pretty open about Nihonto and nonNihonto.
_________________________
www.BostonSamuraiArts.com

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#187501 - 10/27/05 08:17 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Benjamin1986]
splice Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 230
Loc: Ottawa, ON
Quote:

With all due respect, V34, why do several times more work with inferior materials to get an inferior result? Blades made from tamahagne steel are more fragile, not as hard, and not as tough as those that can be made from other steels. Tradition isn't the only factor that exists, and to many people, it isn't the most important.




With all due respect, what do you expect to do with a sword that requires it to be that tough? The katana was made to cut flesh. The traditional katana still cuts flesh very well. Test cutting is done on makiwara and green bamboo, which replicate flesh and bone, and the katana can cut through these easily, too.

What exactly are you going to do with the sword? Cut up cars and bricks? Sure, we can say a traditional katana is "inferior" in that sense, but there are many tools that are much more appropriate to those tasks. A katana just isn't meant for these things, and the arts that teach the use of a katana concentrate on poking and cutting soft humans. Swedish powdered steel is overkill for this purpose. Great if you have it, but "superior"? Not really.

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#187502 - 10/27/05 10:57 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: splice]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
A non traditionally made Japanese blade would be superior for a beginner in cutting. Starting your cutting career with a 10,000 dollar nihonto is just asking for a wrecked blade.

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#187503 - 10/27/05 11:38 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: paradoxbox]
splice Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 230
Loc: Ottawa, ON
Quote:

A non traditionally made Japanese blade would be superior for a beginner in cutting. Starting your cutting career with a 10,000 dollar nihonto is just asking for a wrecked blade.




And in that same sense, a bottom of the barrel chinese made katana that costs $300 US would be superior for a beginner in cutting. But it's in no way superior to a traditionally made blade used for traditional reasons.

I'm not saying swedish powdered steel is evil or wrecks a sword, obviously it's quite nice (except for the togishi). But unless you do tameshigiri daily, I don't see the reason for paying more for it.

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#187504 - 10/27/05 02:14 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: splice]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:

And in that same sense, a bottom of the barrel chinese made katana that costs $300 US would be superior for a beginner in cutting. But it's in no way superior to a traditionally made blade used for traditional reasons.





If anything beginners should steer even further away from cheap junk than more experienced practioners, as they are far more likley to botch cuts bad enough to risk breaking a cheap blade. A broken blade can maim even the beginner wielding it.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#187505 - 10/27/05 02:23 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Charles Mahan]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
For all the talk of cheap blades breaking and maiming someone I keep hearing about, I've only seen Paul Chen Musashi and PPK's actually breaking. Never heard of anyone being maimed by incidents like that either, despite the fact that people with no clue about JSA break a LOT of PPK's.

I think that this would make a strong case for avoiding blades that are overhardened and perhaps buying a blade with a softer spine than the lower end Paul Chen stuff. Or buying from a distributor that knows the detailed specs of the swords so you can choose the hardness of your blade.

Beginners should not be cutting hard targets anyways, regardless of how expensive the blade is. A crappy cut is a crappy cut, and a cut botched badly on hard bamboo will snap or chip a nihonto as much as it will a through hardened last legend or cold steel blade, in a beginners hands.

I would not want to learn to cut on a 3,000 dollar semi custom sword, nor a bugei sword. I'll take the 500$ blade, thank you!

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#187506 - 10/27/05 07:25 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: V34]
Benjamin1986 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 611
Loc: Republic of Texas
Splice, if you hit a wooden post, a branch, a shield, a piece of armor, another sword, a staff, a knife, a wall, a skull, or anything else hard (deliberately or accidentally), then the tougher katana is a better thing to have.

Also, there is the principle of the matter. Traditional Japanese forging actually weakens the steel. That is why several top bladesmiths (including such notables as Howard Clark) don't use it.

Paradox, I've haven't actually heard of quality swords breaking as much as the edge rolling, chipping, or cracking. Also, the hilt is damaged a bit more often than the (I've heard of a guy at Angelsword whose hilt shattered into splinters while he was trying to cut through a car door or some other nonsense).


Edited by Benjamin1986 (10/27/05 07:29 PM)

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#187507 - 11/01/05 10:52 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Benjamin1986]
aikidoka1159 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 33
Loc: Florida, USA
Going off on a bit of a tangent...

I'm thinking of getting a cold steel warrior series katana as my first sword. Right now i'm just using one that sensei donated to the club. Anyways the reasons that i'm looking into this particular model are as follows:

Springsteel blade: less likely to snap (although unlikely as long as I practice carefully, yet still possible) and much less likely to -bend- altogether.

Prominant Bo-hi: not hearing the blade whistle while I practice will let me know that i'm not concentrating enough and to pay more attention.

Full Nakago: safely fitted blade

Real same and cotton ito: REAL same and decent ito!

Reasonable price for college student: no explanation necessary

As you can tell the major points i'm worried about is messing up and injuring myself or others while practicing. I also want to be able to do tameshigiri well when I end up practicing that one day. Would you say that these are pretty reasonable expectations and desires for a first time sword?
Thanks in advance!

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#187508 - 11/02/05 02:10 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: aikidoka1159]
Walter Wong Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts, United ...
As a first sword, don't compromise. Did I spell that right? Anyways, save save save. Granted that you have legitimate JSA training and what your sensei suggests, get the best you can possibly afford. If you can't get what you want now, just wait. Keep waiting and saving. It's so much more worth it to save your money and get what you truly want.

Don't get what you feel is 2nd or 3rd best just because you want to have a sword now.
_________________________
www.BostonSamuraiArts.com

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#187509 - 11/12/05 03:43 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Walter Wong]
aikidoka1159 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 33
Loc: Florida, USA
Well the reason why I want to get my first one sooner rather than later is because I want to start doing tameshigiri and the one I am using now is not suitable for that kind of stress.
To tell you the truth, I wouldnt be able to afford the sword I want until I leave school altogether (which will be quite some time). Ideally I would just buy a bugei, but the time it would take for me to save up that amount could be spent on tameshigiri practice.
Granted, I probably will stow some money away frequently in order to graduate to the bugei (once I buy my first), but I can't reasonably see myself waiting to train just so I can have a blade that will last me ten plus years. The way I look at it, why risk marring up a really good sword on all your initial learning when all that can be done on a sword that is competent yet -to a certain extent- disposable?
I would be much less dissapointed if I messed up a $250 shinken than if I did with a $1200+ one.
Idunno, I guess I'm a fan of training wheels...

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#187510 - 11/12/05 08:13 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: aikidoka1159]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Well that kinda depends. If the $250 shinken fails in such a way that it breaks sending the business in hurtling back at you... let's just say you're gonna be pretty disappointed.

I still don't know why people don't take these things seriously. This is the super bargain basement end of the spectrum. There are some very real safety concerns with ANYTHING in this price range. Nothing in this end would be allowed at the dojo I train at for regular iai practice with no tameshigiri.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#187511 - 11/12/05 08:00 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: investigio]
Erik25 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 18
Hello,
I am a new member here so hello to everyone.

Concerning to you question , I would like to recomend you Hanwei swords for tameshigiri, cutting practics.If you are experienced it won't be any problem to use but if you are beginner you must learn before starting it.
Try this new Hanwei Sword web site. I personally bought there 2 swords,and of course loved them very much.

Live Sword
_________________________
I faithfully recomend Livesword. www.livesword.com

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#187512 - 11/13/05 02:43 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Erik25]
Benjamin1986 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 611
Loc: Republic of Texas
My friend, I do not mean to be rude, especially the new guy, but sometimes, being blunt is the only way to say something necessary quickly enough.

HECK NO!

The heighest end of the Hanwei line (Bugei, and the leftmost tab), are the only ones that are recommendable. Their western blades are laughable, and the Chinese styled ones are extremely suspicious (hand forged damascus and fancy decorations for $250? How many slaves do they have to get that much labor, and what else did they compromise to get the price down?), and the practical series is simply dangerous.

Now that that's out of the way, welcome to the forums.
_________________________
Fencing Club at UH

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#187513 - 11/14/05 02:18 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Benjamin1986]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
I'm not so sure I would go as far as saying the practical katana is dangerous.

If it was dangerous then no serious dojo would ever allow one to be used for anything, but this is not the case. In addition, if I'm not mistaken, the same blade is used in a number of Paul Chen katana. It's definately not a high quality blade, but you get what you pay for.

It's unfortunate people overmystify katana. These things aren't going to kill you the minute you hold one, nor are they going to break the minute you cut with them. Use it responsibly and you will be ok.

No, buying a katana that costs less than 1,000$ is not going to kill you, as long as you use it responsibly. Despite what some people would like you to believe, owning an expensive blade does not mean much. A lot of people with bugei swords want to feel superior and advertise the hell out of those katana. I'm sure the same foundry that makes the cheap Paul Chen blades is making the Bugei blades, just a different process of doing it.

Buying from a reputable company with good quality control does make a real big difference. Even a good smith can make a crappy blade, it's the smith who checks QC and stops crap from going out to the public that differentiates crap swords from good swords. If you buy a cheap blade buy from a company that does the same.

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#187514 - 11/14/05 10:17 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: paradoxbox]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:

I'm not so sure I would go as far as saying the practical katana is dangerous.





Maybe you wouldn't. Not everyone thinks they are unsuitable, but far too many do for comfort. I would encourage anyone even remotely considering the purchase of a PK to read the reviews over at http://www.swordforum.com and read as many reviews as possible.

Quote:


If it was dangerous then no serious dojo would ever allow one to be used for anything, but this is not the case.





I don't know of a single one which does.

Quote:


In addition, if I'm not mistaken, the same blade is used in a number of Paul Chen katana.





This is news to me. What makes you say that?

Quote:


No, buying a katana that costs less than 1,000$ is not going to kill you, as long as you use it responsibly.





Hopefully not. Probably not, but what is responsible use for the cheaper swords? Cutting bamboo targets? Cutting goza? Tree limbs?

Quote:


Despite what some people would like you to believe, owning an expensive blade does not mean much. A lot of people with bugei swords want to feel superior and advertise the hell out of those katana. I'm sure the same foundry that makes the cheap Paul Chen blades is making the Bugei blades, just a different process of doing it.





And there's the rub isn't it. A different process. So that they aren't the same things at all. Add to that the Bugei quality assurance stuff and you'll see that they aren't the same at all. Anyone interested in the differences between the Paul Chen stuff and The Bugei line should go to Bugei's forum and do some research. There's a lot of information available.

People should be very wary of buying cheap stuff, and anyone who says otherwise is irresponsible and needs to decide if they're really looking out for the less informed or just being onery.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#187515 - 11/14/05 02:04 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Charles Mahan]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
I think the quality control of the place you buy from is the important bit.

I have seen more than one extremely dangerous bugei sword that slipped through the QC cracks. I'm talking about swords where there are big gaps in the hamon, internal rust spots, etc.. I don't think the musashi is a bugei blade but nevertheless there was a fellow who posted pictures of a blade he was using which broke in half on a hard target due to internal rusting. That kind of thing could've been spotted by a careful eye at the retail level.

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#187516 - 11/14/05 05:29 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: paradoxbox]
pgsmith Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 275
Loc: Texas
Quote:

I have seen more than one extremely dangerous bugei sword that slipped through the QC cracks. I'm talking about swords where there are big gaps in the hamon, internal rust spots, etc.. I don't think the musashi is a bugei blade but nevertheless there was a fellow who posted pictures of a blade he was using which broke in half on a hard target due to internal rusting. That kind of thing could've been spotted by a careful eye at the retail level.



No, the Musashi is NOT a Bugei sword. The Musashi is in the cheaper echelon of Hanwei swords. They were originally made from recycled railroad tracks. Where did you see these "extremely dangerous Bugei swords?"

There is no such thing as "internal rusting" in steel. Steel can have inclusions or welding flaws. These can lead to weakness in the steel. Inclusions come from poor quality stock. They are bubbles of impurity in the steel. Welding flaws come from poor technique. When folding a bar of steel, if the temperatures are not sufficient, or the piece is not fluxed correctly, the two layers may not weld together properly. This is sometimes very hard to detect, but it allows moisture in between the layers which can lead to corrosion.

The only way to be sure of getting a safe, good quality sword is to spend some money on it. The extra time that is taken ensures a much better quality of the training tool you'll be using for many years. However, extra time costs extra money. Cheap means corners were cut to keep the price down. So, you gotta ask yourself which corners were cut and what are those extra corners worth to you? I don't drive a $200 car because I don't consider a car of that price to be safe to drive. I don't use a $200 sword for the same reason.

_________________________
Paul

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#187517 - 11/18/05 11:07 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: paradoxbox]
Walter Wong Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts, United ...
A Musashi by the Hanwei factory is not the same as a Bugei sword from the Hanwei factory. They're both made at the same place. But both get different treatment. There's less attention placed on building the Musashi than to the Bugei line of swords.

It's like comparing a Lexus to a Toyota Corolla. Lexus is a high end Toyota. Corolla is one of the mid range/low end of Toyota. Both Lexus and Corolla are Toyota. But definitely not the same. Lexus has more attention and detail and higher quality parts to it than Corolla. Both coming from the same company. There's a reason why Lexus cost more.

Both Musashi and a Bugei sword are coming from the same company. But a Bugei sword is just gonna be the better user's sword. Bugei is made in a seperate standard from the rest of the Practical Katana, Practical Plus Katana, Practical Pro Katana, Shinto, Wind & Thunder, Tsunami, Musashi, Golden Oriole, Tokugawa, Kami, Tiger, Bushido and Orchid models.

Bugei would be the Lexus and a Musashi would be a Camry or Corolla. Bugei and Musashi are from Paul Chen/Hanwei. Lexus and Camry/Corolla are from Toyota.
_________________________
www.BostonSamuraiArts.com

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#187518 - 11/18/05 04:17 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Walter Wong]
Erik25 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 18
Walter ,
It's true that Bugei and Hanwei are both made by Paul Chen's factory. Bugei also selling swords of another smith, i don't remember who.

Bugei ordering from Paul Chen swords accordingly to their
( Bugei ) wanted standards. I have met people who saying that Paul Chen is not the best manufacturer while saying this they are comparing Hanwei of Paul Chen and Bugei of Paul Chen, but acttually they don't know this fact, that Paul Chen is a manufacturer of both, Hanwei & Bugei.

May be at simple models like Practical Katanas, Bugei is better but I wouldn't say it about Kami,Tiger,Bushido & Golden. These models can be easily compared with Bugei and even be better than Bugei.Of course it is wrong to compare in this way, a comparison must be done with exact models.

Lets not forget the advantage of Hanwei over All other brands. It is an exclusive brand who offer something that called " Real Sword " that everyone wants to have, at prices from 100$ - 1000$.
_________________________
I faithfully recomend Livesword. www.livesword.com

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#187519 - 11/18/05 10:25 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Erik25]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Well, your opinion is not shared by the preponderence of reviews of both the regular Hanwei line and the Bugei blades. Feel free to checkout the reviews over at http://www.swordforum.com and http://www.e-budo.com to see what I mean. Almost as much as anything, what Bugei has going for them is extremely rigid quality control. They simply don't let blades ship to customers that don't meet their stringent standards for performance and safety. The same cannot be said for the distributors of the regular Hanwei line. It's one of the primary reasons the Bugei stuff is more expensive.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#187520 - 11/20/05 07:33 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Charles Mahan]
Erik25 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 18
What Can you tell about Kami Katana and what Bugei sword can be copared with it?

It is not secret that Hanwei offering products at different range of prices. This mean from low quality up to high quality. So High quality of Hanwei sword might be better than highest quality Bugei.

I know what Bugei producing but on the market the majority aren't able to buy such swords, and people searching to find "real" and cheap good quality katanas not like Fantasy of United. So here we see only Practical of Hanwei, it made exactly ( same processes ) as high quality swords but with more cheaper material than Kami,Tiger.

But Tiger or Kami ot Shinto ... no one will say that they cheap quality.

Lets not forget who makes Bugei and Hanwei, the same factory.
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#187521 - 11/21/05 09:48 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Erik25]
Walter Wong Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts, United ...
Bugei and Hanwei are the same factory, but Bugei-Hanwei collaboration swords are in a different category from the non-Bugei Hanwei swords.

Non-Bugei Hanwei swords are always second choice for me. Now if this is what you prefer, more power to you. Bugei-Hanwei collaboration swords is my preference.

The quality control is a major factor in choosing Bugei-Hanwei collaboration swords over nonBugei-Hanwei. Bugei-Hanwei collaboration swords are of the high performance. The nonBugei-Hanwei high end swords the Kami, Tiger, Bushido and Orchid although uses the same Swedish Powdered Steel, are not in the preferable geometries but are servicable blades. Kami, Tiger, Bushido and Orchid although servicable blades, were originally designed and intended as just art swords that had a live edge that can be used. So those 4 swords were not started with the intent of becoming Martial Arts swords but decorations that could be used as Martial Arts tools. But aesthetics was first and then performance after when it comes to these 4 swords. The blade shapes although usable, aren't of the right shape and curves considered ideal. But passable for usage. Also, the quality of the koshirae would need wraps redone after a year or 2 of serious consistant use.

With Bugei-Hanwei collaborative swords were made with performance first in mind and aesthetics after. For Bugei, form must follow function. NonBugei-Hanwei high ends aren't made with this mindset.

But although NonBugei-Hanwei and Bugei-Hanwei collaborative swords are made at the same factory, because some the high quality work that is put into Bugei-Hanwei collaberative swords, that small amount of that quality occassionally leaks into the nonBugei-Hanwei swords. But not enough to make them Bugei-Hanwei swords's equals. At least on a consistant level.

With that said, Bugei-Hanwei collaborative swords such as Crane and Dragonfly are cheaper than the retailed prices (not the sale prices) of high end nonBugei-Hanwei swords. And Bugei's Crane and Dragonfly Katana models are more properly historical shapes that emphasizes performance first. But Crane and Dragonfly were something just made to be different from the other Bugei models, Samurai, Bamboo, Shobu and Wave had complaints from many modern Budoka complaining of them being too heavy so out came the Crane which is actually a Samurai that was made a little slimmer and balance more towards the handle to give it a more lighter feel to accommedate those complaints. The Crane is often refered to as the "baby Samurai". Dragonfly was made to accomedate those that are heavily into tameshigiri competitions. A thin light blade that would meet little resistance when cutting soft targets. So Dragonfly is even lighter than the Crane. Crane is a little more forgiving on bad cuts than the Dragonfly. But both Crane and Dragonfly would approximate more as personal dueling/street fighting blades of old Japan. The other Bugei models Samurai, Bamboo, Shobu and Wave (without bo-hi) approximate more battlefield type blades used in warring times of Japan. These 4 make excellent hard target cutters. Hard targets in modern practice would be 4 or more mat rolls or bamboo. These 4 blades approximate those battle swords that would be able to withstand cutting against armor or contact with other weapons. But yet flexible for personal dueling/street fighting situation. Making them flexible for soft target cutting practice as well. With Crane and Dragonfly, it's limited to soft targets for tameshigiri. Soft targets being 1 or 2 rolled mats. 3 rolled is pushing towards beginning hard target. Which would make Crane and Dragonfly approximates of personal dueling/street fighting blades. Cause on the battlefield against armor and contact with other weapons, Crane and Dragonfly are looking at failure with easy bending and breaking. Hard target cutting is definitely not suitable for Crane and Dragonfly.

NonBugei-Hanwei swords are usable for tameshigiri, but once again, even after consistant use, they will need new koshirae sooner than Bugei swords of consistant use. With making new koshirae or rewraps, you end up spending more money doing that for a nonBugei-Hanwei high end piece than paying for the same amount or less for a Bugei-Hanwei collaboration piece that would last longer.

NonBugei-Hanwei mid range swords Golden Oriole, Tsunami, Wind & Thunder, Musashi, Tokugawa, Shinto are ok for the beginner of Japanese sword arts who are on a tight budget. Being cheaper swords that the mid range line are, you can expect a lower quality but passable for the meantime til the student can afford a high end sword.

Practical Katana, Practical Plus Katana and Practical Pro Katana are the very low end and should be seriously not looked at for serious Japanese sword art practice. They are not the right shape and balance for serious legitimate Japanese sword art practice. They hang from a thin thread of usability considering that lately the Practical series have been having several counts of report of them breaking from the recent later batches of Practical series Katana. They're already made with low attention to detail and heat treatment. Let alone with the newer batches of the Practical series being made thinner to the once again complaining public of wanting a lighter sword. Low quality attention and heat treatment add to the making of thinner blades make for a possible breakage from light cutting practice.

Also there has been one report I've seen of a Musashi which is a mid range sword breaking. The newer mid range models of Musashi, Golden Oriole, and Shinto are now made with bo-hi which the older models didn't have and now being made light and thin. Though the mid range swords have a little more attention put to them, this once again for demand of lighter thinner blades with the level of attention they recieve for their price range, make even the newer batches of mid range swords being questionable. So the breakage would be less with mid range swords, you can only figure out the quality of the low end swords.

You really get what you pay for.

At this point, I would only settle for high end swords. Though the breakage report are a small amount of the low end and that one mid range Musashi to the thousands of swords that Hanwei is pumping out, it's the mid range and low end I would be precarious of. You pay for more, you're gonna get a stronger safer sword. So what is safety worth to you when you buy a sword? Granted as dangerous as it is with live blades are even of the good kind. It's even more dangerous if the blade is not reliable cause you want to pay under $900.00 for a Japanese styled swords.

Granted high end Bugei pieces are considered cheap already. Several years ago, a thousand dollar sword was unheard of. You want a decent Japanese sword to practice with you had to spend a minimum of 4 to 6 grand on a C grade Nihonto.

Now out comes a price relief on decent usable swords of serious practice like companies like Bugei and swordstore's steel iaito that cuts with Bugei blades ranging from $925.00 to $1,700.00 and swordstore's live blades ranging around $1,200.00. What a relief. Finally, cheaper alternative swords that are reliable for real Japanese sword art use so now you don't have to buy that $4,000.00 - $6,000.00 nihonto.

So $1,000.00 is considered cheap for a Japanese sword. This is around the borderline of safe and usable. Going cheaper, you're really gonna be compromising.

But hey, buy whatever you want. Just know what you are really buying and what you're getting into.
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#187522 - 11/26/05 10:56 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Walter Wong]
Sensei Paul Hart Offline
Banned Member

Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 279
Loc: Lehigh Acres, Florida
I hate to disagree with what I have read but I have been a CNC and Manual Machinist for over 10 years, this includes a stint in QC. I also make knives. I carry the Hanwei line at http://steelhartknives.com because I have found thier swords to be an excellent value for product. I have compared and do own many swords, some are Japanese pre WWII katana, others are from Cold Steel, Hanwei, Bugei and Last Legend. When comparing swords of same price range side by side I would most certainly go with Hanwei or Bugei. I use one of these for daily practice myself and have for a long time. If any are interested in Hanwei get in touch and maybe I can work out an appropriate discount. Same thing for Cold Steel as these are the only two Katana companies I now do business with because I have checked out the competition. I also have about 30 years of training time under my belt so I am verily qualified to make judgement on this I believe. I may not be the greatest swordsman, but I train daily.
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Paul Hart http://allshorin.org

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#187523 - 11/26/05 11:02 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Walter Wong]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
just peeking in on the thread, and while looking up some things, I came across a potentialy useful post/thread:
http://swordforumbugei.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1104
hope it helps the conversation.

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#187524 - 11/26/05 11:09 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Ed_Morris]
Sensei Paul Hart Offline
Banned Member

Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 279
Loc: Lehigh Acres, Florida
While I agree with the poster on the Bugei forum listed for the most part, Cas Iberia and Hanwei have came up over the last 6 months in quality control a great deal. However, you get what you pay for. The "high-end" swords will always be better as more work can be put into them. I use the Samurai model myself as a daily training sword and it works very well.
_________________________
Paul Hart http://allshorin.org

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#187525 - 12/03/05 01:00 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Sensei Paul Hart]
ModernMulan Offline
Banned Member

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 7
Loc: United States
Mr. Hart, I was at one of your demonstrations in 1992 at UofC if you are the same. I remember you from seiza with katana sheathed cutting an apple you dropped twice before it hit the ground. I think Toyama Ryu or Itto Ryu was your system. I wanted to thank you because I started learning Iaido from a gentleman at the Monominee Buddhist Temple because of your demonstration. I was wondering if you have any infomation on your style available or if you still do seminars? If this is the right person then you also teach Karate, no? If I am wrong then I apologize.
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C.Caan

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#187526 - 12/03/05 04:44 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: ModernMulan]
Sensei Paul Hart Offline
Banned Member

Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 279
Loc: Lehigh Acres, Florida
Makes me feel rather old. I am humbled by your recognition. Yes, I was taught the Itto ryu school and I have also studied the Toyama ryu system. Kimura Sensei was at the Toyama Officers school in Japan were he learned the Toyama system. I personaly prefer the Itto Ryu to the Toyama Ryu but that is just my opinion. I am glad you started studying and wish you luck in your future endeavors.
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Paul Hart http://allshorin.org

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#187527 - 12/04/05 10:45 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: thisguy]
mudobudo Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 28
This is fantasy talk of course. I am a sword maker and I can tell you that whether a sword be made out of steel from powder, or steel from stock bars, it doesn't effect it strength. What effects it's strength is the carbon to iron ratio, as well as how well it is heat treated and tempered. Is it an alloy, does it have trace amounts of other elements that add to the resiliance of the steel? Don't fall for that swedish steel talk or the talk about how great folded steel is. Folded steel is no stronger then any other steel. The real reason steel was folded in ancient times was because the carbon content was not very even from point to point. But, as with kneeding dough, this was how they evened it out. Some will argue this makes the steel stronger, but modern metallurgy and testing have prooved this to be a myth. I am not surprised there is so much false knowledge and myth taken as fact floating around here. Most people who pratice sword arts are not smiths or weapon makers, nor do they need to be. However if you want advice on good weapons insofar as how they are made, you really need to talk to a weapon maker, there is just too much myth parading as fact out there, and it will lead you astray.
Now as for Paul Chen's swords, it is not that his lower end swords are not good quality, it is that not all of them are. The quality control is just plain shoddy. He employs a lot of apprentices, and so his work sufffers. You'd be lucky if you got pieces from him when he first started making them, he was not so well known, and his quality was much better. Now, like anything else, the great God of money has turned his stuff to crap. This is not to say he does not make good pieces, but a good half the time you'll have a piece which won't pass the head test. The head test is very simple, and will help the swordsman out here greatly. Take the sword, grap the grip, and the point, place the center of the blades flat on your head. When the proprieter is not looking, bend it. A good sword, depending on how well it is made and heat treated, will flex, but not bend. If is is of a more rigid steel, it will be very hard to flex and you'll need to juke some more. Even then it may not flex much, this is ok, traditional katanas were very rigid, and you were lucky if you could get it to flex even a half inch to an inch overall. The key is whether or not the blade stays staright. If it does, you know it was atleast heat treated properly, which makes it something you might want to get. This doe's not speak though to the blades overall hardness, or ductility. However it is a good place to start.
To be honest, if your looking for a hand made blade and can afford a grand, I suggest going with a custom blade maker. For that money you can get yourself, with some of them, a very good katana. Others, who have large shops and lots of overhead, will charge you an arm and a leg. For me to make a Katana I charge around 2000 dollars, however a sword made by an expert, and made well, will demolish any commerical blades.
However if you can not afford this,there are alternatives.
*Yawn* I must go, things to do, places to go, swords to build, and yes, I work even on Sundays. I could make more money working at wal mart likely, but I would not enjoy that. If you have any questions, message me. Good day

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#187528 - 12/05/05 10:14 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Sensei Paul Hart]
mudobudo Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 28
You know drawing and cutting apples out of the air is not all that hard, read that in one of the earlier posts. Try throwing a penny up in the air, drawing, and cutting it, now that's hard

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#187529 - 12/05/05 10:30 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: mudobudo]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Mudobudo. You are a smith? What is you're name? I'd like to do some research on your work. You have some... peculiar notions.


Edited by Charles Mahan (12/05/05 10:31 AM)
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Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#187530 - 12/05/05 12:52 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Charles Mahan]
mudobudo Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 28
Peculiar notions, thats not very nice, peculiar is a precursor to some kind of rub. Nothing wrong with choosing to remain anonymous, this being the net, so I will remain anonymous if thats ok with you. I don't know what peculiar notions you are speaking of. If you wish to speak of stock removal techniques or some other sword making aspect, cool, but do not send me such emails and expect me to wish to talk to you. Good day.


Edited by mudobudo (12/05/05 12:56 PM)

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#187531 - 12/05/05 01:16 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: mudobudo]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Well, peculiar means just that. Unusual. Apart from the norm. Dont read stuff into my posts. When I decide you're goofy, I'll call you goofy. Your assertion concerning Sweedish Powdered Steel doesn't sound right to me, although knowing practically nothing of metalurgy I won't challenge you on them. Nevertheless the assertion is peculiar. My understanding of why Bugei uses Sweedish powdered steel is that it is a method of gaining VERY evenly distributed content throughout the steel. This makes for a very uniformly strong sword with relatively few flaws. At least that is the hope and theory.

Your suggestion that folks try the "head test" before buying a sword is frankly irresponsible. It might be a good test to make sure that there is at least a little bit of flex. Katana's shouldn't flex hardly at all. They aren't supposed to be spring steel. That's beside the point though. The reason I say it's irresponsible is that there are a rather large number of complete newbies on this forum. A lot of whom are under age. What if one of these folks goes into the local knife shop and tries what you suggest? Maybe it gives them the correct information. Maybe they cut their hand. Maybe the set a bend in the sword and then are forced by the proprietor to purchase the damaged sword. Maybe if they don't pay, they are brought up on charges for damaging private property. Irresponsible.

Your notion that cutting apples is not only an acceptable test of skill but not sufficiently difficult and that testing against a penny is a far superior test of skill is also frankly baffling. I'm not aware of a single legitimate style which practices either form of nonsense. So again a notion which is frankly peculiar.

Your decision to hide behind an alias is disappointing. Many smiths participate online. They usually use their real name, or when they don't, will at least provide it when asked. Not doing so implies that you have something that you wish to hide, or perhaps that you would like to be free to make posts that might otherwise embarress you.

Whether it is ok for you to remain anonymous isn't really up to me. It is a policy of this forum that it is allowed. Now what is up to me is to decide in what light to read your posts. Considering the anonymity policy here, we get an awful lot of kids pretending to be something they are not. All new posters are viewed in that light. Someone who posts contradictory to generally accepted ideas and then does not justify them and who chooses to hide behind an alias is always going to be suspect at first. Given time perhaps you will convince the skeptics that you know what you are talking about. Till then everything you say will be taken with a grain of salt.

I don't wish to speak of stock removal techniques. If I did I would go to the smith forum over at Swordforum. That is where a great many smiths hang out. This is a martial arts forum. We are here to speak about martial arts. In the case of this particular thread, training tools.
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Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#187532 - 12/05/05 02:07 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Charles Mahan]
mudobudo Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 28
Really, well since you dont like to speak of things you know nothing about, well I call that peculiar, how else do you learn? And I have seen an awful lot of discussion on here about sword making, hmm, peculiarthat I should go elsehwhere to discuss it.
I have opinions that differ from the norm, that is why I remain anonymous perhaps, not the other way around.
I was not speaking to either apple cutting or penny cutting as a test of skill, frankly because A, very few could cut the penny out of the air after throwing it with their drawing hand, try it. As for the apple, thats too easy. Either could be done by most wiht enough practice. Also, this only speaks to one's iai-jutsu speed, perhaps technique, nothing to their ability to fight, not feel fear of death, or anything else that one encounters in a real fight. It is a trick, a difficult one, but a trick noetheless. Now, to do either blindfolded would speak of more then a trick, to have someone else you don't know doing the throwing while your blindfolded, that is more then a trick. But I won't get into things that vary away from the physical aspects of swordsmanship.
The head test is very acceptable, and really, if your dumb enough to cut your hand, so be it. Really though you gracp the sword at the back edge with two fingers at the point, put the flat on the head, and pull. No it is true, a good Katana will not bend much at all, and if it doe's and stays bent, it is junk. The duh factor applies here I think, and you made my point kinda Charles, It should not bend, if it doe's. it's crap. I use a shirt sleeve at worst, but really, your knit picking here, looking for knits so you can point out flaws in what I say, it's also called splitting hairs. I look at things, differently, like, if your trying to get me to pay this for that, and it don't pass test A, then so be it, I don't want it. However your best bet is to buy it, and if it don't pass at home, bend it back, and return it. If it's junk the person who sold it to you deserves to get it back, and you to get your money back. Have done it many times myself. You speak of the sword seller getting hurt, lol, you really are trying to discredit me aren't you, interesting, why I wonder, and why try so hard, hmm.
Don't get me wrong, swedish steel is good stuff, but honestly, people get way to caught up in the minutae of sword making just as they do with the minutae in practicing swordsmanship if you ask me. Overcomplication is rype in both areas.
Reamining anonymous implies that I have something to hide? That is a circular argument of a paranoid soul. It is like saying "if you don't give blood at a blood drive that you must want someone to die because they need your blood" Perhaps I just don't like needles.
But I am justifying my words, and I explain very well why I say what I say, and what it means. Your whole overly long post is merely a baiting method, from someone who has obviously been here a while, is used to being a large voice here, and it's that simple. You may draw your own conclusions, whatever your motives are, they mean little to me. A good day to you

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#187533 - 12/05/05 02:15 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: mudobudo]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Sorry you feel that way. We'll let the other forumites decide how to view your posts.

You missed my point on the apple/penny cutting. They are both parlor tricks. Nothing more. They don't show your ability to do anything except the trick.

As to why I bother posting here, every day I ask myself that question more and more.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#187534 - 12/05/05 02:18 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Charles Mahan]
mudobudo Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 28
I agree and disagree, parlor tricks they may be, if your the one doing the throwing, but if someon else is, it might be different. Try doing it with a blindfold, with someone you do not know. iThe truth is, if you can cut a penny out of the air, blindfolded, with a total stranger throwing it at you, that is not a parlor trick, but show you have learned to extend your senses beyond the purely physical ones, and have developed your sixth sense. Some things are not so black and white Charles. Good day. And do not speak to what others should or should not think, this is you clearly trying to goad other forumites, who you know, to be in line with your line of thinking, how immature. Bye bye.

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#187535 - 12/05/05 02:20 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Charles Mahan]
mudobudo Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 28
Charles, where is your addressing each and everything I said, you pick and choose what you wish to address, and don't address the rest, while I addressed everything you said, how interesting. Are you one of those folks who can not back up what he says, and gives opinions without explaining the reason or rationale behind them, hmm. Well I guess you don't have to follow your own rules, since you've been here a while. Uh huh, ok, later gator

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#187536 - 12/05/05 02:25 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: mudobudo]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Wallow in your victory. You're reasoning is wrong. Mostly I'm just lazy. Which point would you like me to address?
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#187537 - 12/05/05 02:27 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Charles Mahan]
mudobudo Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 28
Again, an assertion without an explanation, what a surprise. It is easy to say how my reasoning is wrong, hard to explain it. Your right, you are lazy, your words, not mine, but they are true it would seem. Don't ask of others what you can not do yourself

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#187538 - 12/05/05 02:37 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: mudobudo]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:

Again, an assertion without an explanation, what a surprise. It is easy to say how my reasoning is wrong, hard to explain it. Your right, you are lazy, your words, not mine, but they are true it would seem. Don't ask of others what you can not do yourself




You really are paranoid. The reasoning which was wrong, was that I was responding to some posts but not others because my position was indefensible. The explanation was that I am too lazy to respond to every little nit you choose to pick. And yes the words are true. I'm a member on 9 other forums, and I do work for a living. I don't have the time to respond to each and every little nit you've picked on 6 or 7 different threads. So I've conceeded defeat. Enjoy it.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#187539 - 12/05/05 02:49 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Charles Mahan]
mudobudo Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 28
Well thats a vieled insult, responding saying that you work for a living so you could not do what I do. bascially your trying to say I don't work for a living while at the same time being just vague enough to deny my assertion on that, bravo. Your very good at subtle rubs, that kind of skill takes lots of practice. I work for a living as well, and really, if you don't respond, doens't that mean you don't have an answer. I am using your onw logic there just so you know, circular arguments do work so well online. Concede defeat or do not. I enjoy good discussion, but you have made this all rather personal for some reason, which I do not know why. Whatever I said you disagreed with, please, do comment. Seems more like your upset with me disagreeing at all, not about the disagreement itself. Interesting. Good day Charles, sorry you feel as you do, would have enjoyed corresponding, oh well. take care.

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#187540 - 12/05/05 08:23 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: mudobudo]
Benjamin1986 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 611
Loc: Republic of Texas
MB, that is enough. You are taking this too personally. Charles was not nitpicking, but pointing out very obvious problems with your suggestion. You obviously took this as an insult, which it was not. However, when you insulted Charles repeatedly while daring him to take you on point by point, you crossed the line.

If someone doesn't have the time or will to discuss something, then they don't have to discuss anything. We don't want to involve the moderators if we don't have to, but your rude behavior is intolerable.
_________________________
Fencing Club at UH

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#187541 - 12/05/05 09:28 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Benjamin1986]
mudobudo Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 28
Hello,
I don't know you sir, but it would be customary to introduce yourself first. Now, my name is mudo budo, and I don't know what your talking about. If you could name all the supposed insults I made, I will address them, if you can not, it is because they did not happen. If you can point out my rude behavior and explain why it was rude, I was address that as well and certanly apologize. however if this is a case of your sensibilities being offended, or some nonsense I don't get, then this is kinda a watse of time. I'l not even say I was or was not rude, denials to absolutely nothing are a waste fo time, since you have sighted no examples. I do not know what points Charles addressed, but that was my complaint, and his vague disagreements with me either disagreeing too much, laughable, or the disagreement itself, are what this forum are for. And again, to say there is a problem but not what it is is a waste of my time to address. Have a nice day Ben, why you would choose to interject yourself I do not know, clealry your a little biased, and vague, I don't address vague. Take care.

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#187542 - 12/05/05 11:07 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: mudobudo]
Benjamin1986 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 611
Loc: Republic of Texas
Mr. Budo, as for your prior rude remarks, please read the top post on this page. Read your remarks carefully and please explain to me how they are not insulting.

As for the reasons behind my interjection, Charles is my someone I hold in high respect; I do not have the longest of tempers; and a derisive and dismissive tone is among the greatest of my pet peeves.

Quote:

vague, I don't address vague


Quote:

where is your addressing each and everything I said, you pick and choose what you wish to address, and don't address the rest


This theme is repeated over and over, essentially calling the person you are talking to dimwitted and not worth your time. If you had said something along the lines of "I do not understand", anyone here (including Charles, Laf, myself, Paradox, Walter, or any of the other major posters) would have explained. However, your tone came across as dismissive,
Quote:

But I am justifying my words, and I explain very well why I say what I say, and what it means. Your whole overly long post is merely a baiting method




You repeatedly talk down to everyone on this board, ie:

Quote:

And do not speak to what others should or should not think, this is you clearly trying to goad other forumites, who you know, to be in line with your line of thinking, how immature. Bye bye.



Quote:

I do not know what points Charles addressed, but that was my complaint, and his vague disagreements with me either disagreeing too much, laughable, or the disagreement itself, are what this forum are



Quote:

if your dumb enough to cut your hand, so be it


Quote:

The duh factor applies here I think,


Quote:

Reamining anonymous implies that I have something to hide? That is a circular argument of a paranoid soul.


Quote:

You speak of the sword seller getting hurt, lol, you really are trying to discredit me aren't you, interesting, why I wonder, and why try so hard, hmm.




You declare yourself an expert, cite no sources save your own knowledge, and deride people who express quite reasonable doubts about the techniques you propose ie: the head test. Read those passages I quoted, and if you do not see how they are insulting, then there is no point in continuing this discussion.

I do not ask for an apology, and will offer none in return. I do not have authority to speak for the board itself, but it is my opinion that you have worn out your welcome here.
_________________________
Fencing Club at UH

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#187543 - 12/05/05 11:35 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Benjamin1986]
mudobudo Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 28
Ben, gimmie a break, NOthing there was rude, and you of course took some of it out of context of the rest of the post. And consequnetly, if this person your speaking of, one person, is everyone here, then there is something wrong with this forum. Grow a thicker skin, stop being so quick to take offense, and don't bother me with anymore nonsense. getting in the middle of anothers discussion and taking sides is kinda dumb as well, what do you accomplish. Nevermind, you take care.

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#187544 - 12/06/05 01:17 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: mudobudo]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

I don't know you sir, but it would be customary to introduce yourself first.




The same should be said of you. I'm going to make this simple and tell you who I am, the moderator of this section. Please take the time to view the ground rules thread at the top of this section.

I do have some questions for you.

1. Where are you from and how old are you? Yes i'm actually asking because this will give us some insight to who you are.

2. What training/education have you had? To help substantiate your claims of being a sword smith and back your position on some issues.

3. How long have you been training and how long have you been a practicing smith?

These are simple questions that require a simple answer. No need to talk in circles about your right to remain anonymous. If you want your posts to be taken seriously, or retain the right to post, it would be advantageous to answer them truthfully. Also flying off the handle at anyone isn't going to help this situation so i advise against it. You have already displayed an image of arrogance and rude behavior. I'm only making this offer for you to clear the air in hopes of obtaining another valued member to the forums. If you choose to be illusive or rude then that might change. I will tell you that I value the long standing members we have here. They have remained here because they have something to offer. There are many times when they donít agree with each other or me, but they deal with it in a good way and learn from each other and communicate their opinions in a manner that is conducive with the forum rules. I suggest you do the same.

One last note, the only correct response to these questions is a direct response. No side stepping or dodging.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#187545 - 12/06/05 08:41 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: investigio]
MugiaMike Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Louisville, KY U.S.
I use a Last legand MK VI with a 1.8 inch sori for both iai and cutting, (sometimes we do both simultainously) I swear by it I believe they are the best production Ken around. I had mine custome forged and folded custom blde leingth and tsuka for less than $1000 US

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