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#187505 - 10/27/05 02:23 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Charles Mahan]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
For all the talk of cheap blades breaking and maiming someone I keep hearing about, I've only seen Paul Chen Musashi and PPK's actually breaking. Never heard of anyone being maimed by incidents like that either, despite the fact that people with no clue about JSA break a LOT of PPK's.

I think that this would make a strong case for avoiding blades that are overhardened and perhaps buying a blade with a softer spine than the lower end Paul Chen stuff. Or buying from a distributor that knows the detailed specs of the swords so you can choose the hardness of your blade.

Beginners should not be cutting hard targets anyways, regardless of how expensive the blade is. A crappy cut is a crappy cut, and a cut botched badly on hard bamboo will snap or chip a nihonto as much as it will a through hardened last legend or cold steel blade, in a beginners hands.

I would not want to learn to cut on a 3,000 dollar semi custom sword, nor a bugei sword. I'll take the 500$ blade, thank you!

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#187506 - 10/27/05 07:25 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: V34]
Benjamin1986 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 611
Loc: Republic of Texas
Splice, if you hit a wooden post, a branch, a shield, a piece of armor, another sword, a staff, a knife, a wall, a skull, or anything else hard (deliberately or accidentally), then the tougher katana is a better thing to have.

Also, there is the principle of the matter. Traditional Japanese forging actually weakens the steel. That is why several top bladesmiths (including such notables as Howard Clark) don't use it.

Paradox, I've haven't actually heard of quality swords breaking as much as the edge rolling, chipping, or cracking. Also, the hilt is damaged a bit more often than the (I've heard of a guy at Angelsword whose hilt shattered into splinters while he was trying to cut through a car door or some other nonsense).


Edited by Benjamin1986 (10/27/05 07:29 PM)

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#187507 - 11/01/05 10:52 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Benjamin1986]
aikidoka1159 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 33
Loc: Florida, USA
Going off on a bit of a tangent...

I'm thinking of getting a cold steel warrior series katana as my first sword. Right now i'm just using one that sensei donated to the club. Anyways the reasons that i'm looking into this particular model are as follows:

Springsteel blade: less likely to snap (although unlikely as long as I practice carefully, yet still possible) and much less likely to -bend- altogether.

Prominant Bo-hi: not hearing the blade whistle while I practice will let me know that i'm not concentrating enough and to pay more attention.

Full Nakago: safely fitted blade

Real same and cotton ito: REAL same and decent ito!

Reasonable price for college student: no explanation necessary

As you can tell the major points i'm worried about is messing up and injuring myself or others while practicing. I also want to be able to do tameshigiri well when I end up practicing that one day. Would you say that these are pretty reasonable expectations and desires for a first time sword?
Thanks in advance!

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#187508 - 11/02/05 02:10 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: aikidoka1159]
Walter Wong Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 275
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts, United ...
As a first sword, don't compromise. Did I spell that right? Anyways, save save save. Granted that you have legitimate JSA training and what your sensei suggests, get the best you can possibly afford. If you can't get what you want now, just wait. Keep waiting and saving. It's so much more worth it to save your money and get what you truly want.

Don't get what you feel is 2nd or 3rd best just because you want to have a sword now.
_________________________
www.BostonSamuraiArts.com

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#187509 - 11/12/05 03:43 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Walter Wong]
aikidoka1159 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 33
Loc: Florida, USA
Well the reason why I want to get my first one sooner rather than later is because I want to start doing tameshigiri and the one I am using now is not suitable for that kind of stress.
To tell you the truth, I wouldnt be able to afford the sword I want until I leave school altogether (which will be quite some time). Ideally I would just buy a bugei, but the time it would take for me to save up that amount could be spent on tameshigiri practice.
Granted, I probably will stow some money away frequently in order to graduate to the bugei (once I buy my first), but I can't reasonably see myself waiting to train just so I can have a blade that will last me ten plus years. The way I look at it, why risk marring up a really good sword on all your initial learning when all that can be done on a sword that is competent yet -to a certain extent- disposable?
I would be much less dissapointed if I messed up a $250 shinken than if I did with a $1200+ one.
Idunno, I guess I'm a fan of training wheels...

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#187510 - 11/12/05 08:13 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: aikidoka1159]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Well that kinda depends. If the $250 shinken fails in such a way that it breaks sending the business in hurtling back at you... let's just say you're gonna be pretty disappointed.

I still don't know why people don't take these things seriously. This is the super bargain basement end of the spectrum. There are some very real safety concerns with ANYTHING in this price range. Nothing in this end would be allowed at the dojo I train at for regular iai practice with no tameshigiri.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#187511 - 11/12/05 08:00 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: investigio]
Erik25 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 18
Hello,
I am a new member here so hello to everyone.

Concerning to you question , I would like to recomend you Hanwei swords for tameshigiri, cutting practics.If you are experienced it won't be any problem to use but if you are beginner you must learn before starting it.
Try this new Hanwei Sword web site. I personally bought there 2 swords,and of course loved them very much.

Live Sword
_________________________
I faithfully recomend Livesword. www.livesword.com

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#187512 - 11/13/05 02:43 PM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Erik25]
Benjamin1986 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 611
Loc: Republic of Texas
My friend, I do not mean to be rude, especially the new guy, but sometimes, being blunt is the only way to say something necessary quickly enough.

HECK NO!

The heighest end of the Hanwei line (Bugei, and the leftmost tab), are the only ones that are recommendable. Their western blades are laughable, and the Chinese styled ones are extremely suspicious (hand forged damascus and fancy decorations for $250? How many slaves do they have to get that much labor, and what else did they compromise to get the price down?), and the practical series is simply dangerous.

Now that that's out of the way, welcome to the forums.
_________________________
Fencing Club at UH

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#187513 - 11/14/05 02:18 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: Benjamin1986]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
I'm not so sure I would go as far as saying the practical katana is dangerous.

If it was dangerous then no serious dojo would ever allow one to be used for anything, but this is not the case. In addition, if I'm not mistaken, the same blade is used in a number of Paul Chen katana. It's definately not a high quality blade, but you get what you pay for.

It's unfortunate people overmystify katana. These things aren't going to kill you the minute you hold one, nor are they going to break the minute you cut with them. Use it responsibly and you will be ok.

No, buying a katana that costs less than 1,000$ is not going to kill you, as long as you use it responsibly. Despite what some people would like you to believe, owning an expensive blade does not mean much. A lot of people with bugei swords want to feel superior and advertise the hell out of those katana. I'm sure the same foundry that makes the cheap Paul Chen blades is making the Bugei blades, just a different process of doing it.

Buying from a reputable company with good quality control does make a real big difference. Even a good smith can make a crappy blade, it's the smith who checks QC and stops crap from going out to the public that differentiates crap swords from good swords. If you buy a cheap blade buy from a company that does the same.

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#187514 - 11/14/05 10:17 AM Re: Need a new sword! [Re: paradoxbox]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:

I'm not so sure I would go as far as saying the practical katana is dangerous.





Maybe you wouldn't. Not everyone thinks they are unsuitable, but far too many do for comfort. I would encourage anyone even remotely considering the purchase of a PK to read the reviews over at http://www.swordforum.com and read as many reviews as possible.

Quote:


If it was dangerous then no serious dojo would ever allow one to be used for anything, but this is not the case.





I don't know of a single one which does.

Quote:


In addition, if I'm not mistaken, the same blade is used in a number of Paul Chen katana.





This is news to me. What makes you say that?

Quote:


No, buying a katana that costs less than 1,000$ is not going to kill you, as long as you use it responsibly.





Hopefully not. Probably not, but what is responsible use for the cheaper swords? Cutting bamboo targets? Cutting goza? Tree limbs?

Quote:


Despite what some people would like you to believe, owning an expensive blade does not mean much. A lot of people with bugei swords want to feel superior and advertise the hell out of those katana. I'm sure the same foundry that makes the cheap Paul Chen blades is making the Bugei blades, just a different process of doing it.





And there's the rub isn't it. A different process. So that they aren't the same things at all. Add to that the Bugei quality assurance stuff and you'll see that they aren't the same at all. Anyone interested in the differences between the Paul Chen stuff and The Bugei line should go to Bugei's forum and do some research. There's a lot of information available.

People should be very wary of buying cheap stuff, and anyone who says otherwise is irresponsible and needs to decide if they're really looking out for the less informed or just being onery.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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