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#187367 - 09/20/05 05:45 AM pointless techniques
Dauragon c mikado Offline


Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Oxford, England
now, in katas, self defence seminars and so on you often get a lot of 'defence against the wrist grab' type of stuff.
i dont want it to seem like im trolling but who in reality would rather just hit him with the other hand? and even if they did try and apply various wrist/arm locks, the other guy isnt going to be standing around holding your wrist waiting for somthing to happen , hes gonna be hitting your face! like when you go up against a trapping hands practicioner for example, rendering you wrist twisting techniques useless.

and in my expreience ive never had anybody who wanted to fight me come and grab my wrist first off, so are these techniques pointless? or are they just filling the gap of 'just in case', cause as far as i know there not used much in competition either.

even as i write this some so called martial artists are no more than a few yards away from me in the library proving my point cause they cant grab eachothers wrists to begin with.

what do ya think

dcm
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The way of the warrior is a resolute acceptance of death. -Musashi

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#187368 - 09/20/05 06:11 AM Re: pointless techniques [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
No technique is useless. Maybe far fetched but then again so are some of the things that happen to us in everyday life.

I ll give you a scenario (one of a thousand that I can think of) where are wrist escape is usefull. You get attcked from behind and two dudes hold your wrists while a third comes from the front to hit you.


Someone is holding your wrist and goes to punch you... you block with your free arm, but then you need to punch back, so you have to free your previously grabbed wrist.

There are thousands of situations, and wrist grabs are taught not only for those scenarios where they will be usefull but also to teach you some principles about body meachanics and which way limbs can and cant turn.

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#187369 - 09/20/05 06:14 AM Re: pointless techniques [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
Ironfoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 2682
Loc: St. Clair Shores, MI USA
You're speaking only from your viewpoint. True, if a man was to accost another on the street, it's likely that punches would be thrown before any grappling took place. However, what if the "victim" was a woman or a child? We all have to practice those, if only to teach them later.
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#187370 - 09/20/05 06:26 AM Re: pointless techniques [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
naraebon Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 47
Loc: Vienna, Austria

Hi

once more Ian Abernethy:

he`s saying a situation like this might arise after you being (verbaly) offended, you realize you`ll have to fight, you take the first (pre emptive) move and try to grab your opponents groin. Instinctively this is an area which we protect well, so your opponent will grab your wrist while you try to grab his groin ...


... and there you go.


I never experienced a situation like this, but it sounds logical to me.

http://www.ianabernethy.com/articles/article_3.asp


cheers,
Nara Ebon

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#187371 - 09/20/05 06:32 AM Re: pointless techniques [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
TwistingKick Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 194
Loc: UK (oxford)
I always wondered the same thing when i was practicing aikido, i was told that this is the basic attack to defend yourself against and once u could defend yourself against a grab on the wrist, you could defend yourself from a punch to the stomach. (Not sure if this is true though) =)

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#187372 - 09/20/05 07:00 AM Re: pointless techniques [Re: TwistingKick]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Wrestlers will often come in and grab your wrists and they seek to come in further and take control of your whole body.

Incidentally, wrestling (yes, the "sport") teaches the best counters to wrist grabs that I have ever seen.

But there's nothing wrong with hitting either other than it may not result in the release of your wrist.

-John

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#187373 - 09/20/05 09:04 AM Re: pointless techniques [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
Chanters Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 559
Loc: Manchester, UK
I agree with MAGr when he says no technique is useless. I think particularly for women, it is good to practice defending against a wrist grab and this would be a possible method a potential rapist may use. Also what if you were slow and the attacker caught your punch?

Quote:

and even if they did try and apply various wrist/arm locks, the other guy isnt going to be standing around holding your wrist waiting for somthing to happen, hes gonna be hitting your face!




When applying a wrist/arm lock you need to apply it fast and be in a position where it is difficult for them to effectively kick or strike you, i.e not stood in front of them. If they try and strike you, apply the wrist/arm lock more and if need be go for the break. Some wrist/arm locks are used to get the attacker to the ground, therefore you don't give them any opportunity to try and strike. Granted I think some wrist/arm locks are tricky to learn but once you've grasped them they are particularly effective and painful if you're on the receiving end!. There's a guy in our class who's double jointed and has very flexible limbs, so whenever we practice the locks, I try and practice with him. At least if I can apply a lock on him, I should have an easier job applying it on other people.

What if you're in quite a confined area like a lift and striking is out of the question? You can in some instances get your attacker to grab your wrist, once he's fallen for the bait apply the lock. This does not require much space to move around.
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#187374 - 09/20/05 09:35 AM Re: pointless techniques [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Have you seen the video that taped the abduction of a little Florida girl, who was murdered, about two years ago? All he did was grab her wrist.


Edited by harlan (09/20/05 09:36 AM)

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#187375 - 09/20/05 09:56 AM Re: pointless techniques [Re: Dauragon c mikado]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
It seems that by asking a question like that you expose your lack of street and class room knowledge. Every body knows that the wrist grabs can be the start of an abduction tactic or the next move away from a, punch, bear hug, arm bar or throw.

In the (or my) class room its taught as just a basic wrist grab then a wrist grab pull into front bear hug or takedown, wrist grab/punch, wrist grab/kick, wrist grab into a clinch/rear bar,throw..... With any grab of the collar, wrist, arm, waist, or head you should work counters. Striking if you both are swing only even the event, evade, control(counter wrist lock or punch), disable and evade is our motto. Striking if you turn a guy by grabing him where you can hit him and he can't hit you (is control) is an advantage.

We also practice grabbing the wrist and behind the elbow in sparring or fighting, trapping and pulling the wrist into a kick or punch, sweep, lock or throw is a powerful move (of course wrist and elbow gives you less risk to a counter) but sometimes wrist is all you can grab.

I've done that move on the street, pulling him into the blows, you got to be good to withstand or counter that. Not many are that good. Pointless technique that builds upon victory or survival, its called the Martial Arts.


Edited by Neko456 (09/20/05 10:04 AM)
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#187376 - 09/20/05 10:04 AM Re: pointless techniques [Re: Neko456]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
I'm surprised that nobody (that I noticed) mentioned the equal force factor. Yes, if somebody grabs you you may want to punch them, but in most places you will be the one facing the judges gavel if you do. A punch does not equal a grab, a grab escape does.

"Rather judged by 12 than carried by 6" Yeah, we've all heard it, but when it's only at the level of a guy grabbing your wrist? It is likely that the altercation will escalate, but if you can do a grab escape it will leave both of your hands free and may make the other take a second thought about what they are about to do.

Along with all the other good points put out by others.
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