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#187275 - 09/19/05 09:29 PM Groin Cups
Eduardo Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 20
Loc: Nadi, Fiji
Why is the WKF against groin protectors with removable cups? Is it because the cup might break rather than protect the testicles if, for example the wearer is accidentally kicked hard in the groin and the sides of the cup are not in their proper place?

I saw some good products at Karate Depot. However, I bought a Procup - one of those with a separate cup. Would you recommend getting the one-piece adidas one to replace it?

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#187276 - 10/27/05 03:25 PM Re: Groin Cups [Re: Eduardo]
ai-uchi Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 200
Loc: harlow essex
i ill tell you a nasty true story about why not to wear these

a colleague i trained with in mid 80's got caught by a low blow. Unfortunately his gonads has slipped out therefore he got caught etween the edge of the cup and his leg, the result........

one split testicle

i normally take the cup out and wear it under a very tight pair of speedos so the thing has not movement capaility at all
_________________________
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#187277 - 02/17/06 02:53 AM Re: Groin Cups [Re: ai-uchi]
Eduardo Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 20
Loc: Nadi, Fiji
Yeouch! So he broke one? Now I know one reason why the WKF is against removable cups, and why they changed tournament rules, but accidents still happen. Was he able to have kids after that?

While we're on the subject of undies, during classes, I've been using a pair of tight ones, then over that I put on the Procup, which is inside the also tight jockstrap that came with it, to prevent too much movement, like your method.

Doctors are against constant high pressure on the testicles, though, because it may cause infertility, but a sharp strike to the unprotected groin during sparring isn't a good alternative either. While sparring, I usually have one hand low in front, especially when I don't have the cup on, and that's probably why I used to get a fist or a foot on the face a lot, but it helps to develop your reflexes if you're handicapped this way.

I think I'll try to get one of those recommended by the WKF - how safe are those compared to the ones with removable cups?

I've responded late as I haven't been here in a while. Thanks, Ai-uchi. Any other responses from those more experienced is highly appreciated.

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#187278 - 02/17/06 01:38 PM Re: Groin Cups [Re: Eduardo]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Ed,
I have recently found a setup that works well for me. A tight Jock with a pocket that the cup inserts into. Then a tight pair of UnderArmor over that. It works well and keeps the cup from moving or creating a gap. I have experienced the to loose cup crunch... no fun. On the other hand I want to take it off as fast as possible after training.

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#187279 - 02/26/06 05:50 PM Re: Groin Cups [Re: Eduardo]
TwistingKick Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 194
Loc: UK (oxford)
A bit off-topic but sorry, i couldn't help myself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-rtdWeZD2U&search=sparring

take a look, lol
_________________________
Even monkeys fall from trees sometimes!!

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#187280 - 03/11/06 10:15 AM Re: Groin Cups [Re: oldman]
Eduardo Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 20
Loc: Nadi, Fiji
I use a similar method, except that the tight briefs I use on top of the jockstrap aren't UnderArmor brand. I've tried hitting it lightly a few times, and it does hurt a bit from the sudden pressure, however light, so a hard kick from someone will definitely hurt. I'm just glad they encourage kicking above the hips during practice here in my dojo.

In some ways, having a cup is better than nothing. I haven't had any accidents with or without it so far (though there were some close calls a few times when I wasn't using a cup==:)... and considering what's been mentioned, I pray that I won't ever have to.

What's your opinion on the one-piece groin protectors compared to the two-piece ones? Do you think it's safer to use the single-piece ones? If that's the case, I'm thinking of getting another one - the Adidas one from Karate Depot, perhaps.

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#187281 - 03/12/06 07:18 AM Re: Groin Cups [Re: TwistingKick]
Eduardo Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 20
Loc: Nadi, Fiji
Not exactly off-topic in my opinion, TwistingKick.... (unless you consider what the ad is all about....)

For those of you who want to download this, you can from here.

Something similar happened to me once in my first tournament in 2004.... but I didn't get hit down there. I expected worse, actually - six months after starting without having dedicated enough time to training, and being only a jukyu with very little kumite experience, I fought a nidan because we were placed in the same weight category. So I attacked like a madman, and I think I annoyed him...

I only had my gi on (over my briefs, of course) and my mouthguard, and I had no padding or armor of any kind anywhere. I kept a low stance and low guard and got a slap (not sure what it's called, but it's like a slap with the ball of the foot) kick three times on the eye sockets (two on the right, and one on the left) - no blood - probably some internal bleeding and mostly bone bruise. My right eye's vision was blurred for several hours. Ice helped to prevent swelling of the flesh around the sockets and, fortunately, the skin didn't turn purple. I should have protected my face, but I was concentrating on protecting something more important. My face hurt for over a month after that, and my right eyeball for about a week, and I've learned to keep one guard high and one low instead of both low since then.

Several others during that same tournament got it in the groin because their guards were high, and unfortunately, they had no armor as well, and some of them had opponents who couldn't (or refused to) kick above the belts for fear of exposing their own precious ones to counters. The one-piece Adidas protectors were taken out of the boxes afterwards for those who wanted to use them, when they weren't needed anymore because people were more careful after that. I don't know why they don't sell them to competitors here - sharing doesn't seem hygienic.

The rules were supposed to be WKF, but interpretation of 'skin touch' is obviously different here. Whoever said point-fighting tournaments were games of tag should spar with that dude I fought with - or any of the other black belts here....

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#187282 - 03/23/08 06:13 PM Re: Groin Cups [Re: Eduardo]
keiko Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/23/08
Posts: 2
In traditional Karate (Okinawan) tournaments were never a part of the art. As it moved to Japan, Korea and elswhere, shiai or trounaments were added. While there are so called "full contact" tournaments, most require a groin cup.

In Goju Ryu karate as taught in Okinawa by Miyagi Chonjun Sensei, students were taught how to withdraw their testicles into their lower abdomen, thus preventing injury in a physical confrontation.

The most comfortable and one of the safest ways to wear a protective cup in training or at tournaments is to first put on a standard jock strap. This will properly support and contain the nake genatalie. Then put the cup unit on over that. Most quality cups today have a softer edge region to prevent injuring the inner leg upon contact. It will also curve to the rear so that the cup cannot be driven upward.

If you are going to train for tournaments, then you should always dress as if you were going to compete in tournaments. If a groin cup is mandatory for grading, then you should always wear one during training. The more often you wear it the more comfortable it will be. I have trained for more than 40 years and the only time I do not wear a groin cup is when I am training in the dojo alone or I am training privately on a beach or without a partner.

If you are going to play the tournament game, then play by the rules. Mouth guards and groin cups should be mandatory. Other equipment should be left to the organizing body for the tournament.

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#187283 - 03/25/08 02:53 PM Re: Groin Cups [Re: keiko]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
keiko

That is largly an old wives tale...once the boys drop there is very little that one can do about pulling them back up.

Beisdes, as hard as some people kick---pulling them up insides would not really help you all that much.

And besides that, the process is not exactly like tighting a muscle--so its utilty is highly limited for how most attacks happen--by surprise and from ambush.

Good advice on the groin cup/mouth piece
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#187284 - 03/26/08 09:31 PM Re: Groin Cups [Re: cxt]
keiko Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/23/08
Posts: 2
Hardcase

Wives tale? Not quite. Higaonna Sesnei has taught this to adult students. If you train regularly and practice this on a daily basis you can withdraw the testies at will. Once they are within the body no harm can come to them.

Exactly where you get your statistics from is beyond me. "Most attacks happen by surprise and from ambush." Not quite, most are from verbal confrontations which allow you a enough time to withdraw them before physical contact.

I added that section into my initial comment for those that understand the difference between a groin cup that is needed for tuurnment participation.

If you are ever in a physical confrontation on the street and realize that your opponent is wearing a groin cup, they you must also realize that he was out looking for a fight.

Hard case: Get a grip.

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