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#186751 - 09/22/05 11:11 AM Re: Daily Zen: new week [Re: JoelM]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
I ll explain my train of thought and you cant tell me if it has any relevance. Because I m not sure myself.

To release yourself from enslavement you have to give, but inorder to give someone has to take. In turn you have to trust that the person who is taking is also willing to give to someone else or back. Otherwise one person ends up with all the goods.
What my interpretation of that quote is is that people should not have to question the trustworthyness of their fellow 'inmate' it should be agiven on both sides.
I think people are reluctant to give because they are afraid that they are going to be the only one giving, if you could just release yourself from that, and everyone did that at the same time, you would indeed have a utopia.

Does that make any sense?
I think I might just be talking out of my arse.
Excuse me, its been a long day at work.

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#186752 - 09/22/05 11:21 AM Re: Daily Zen: new week [Re: MAGr]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
It does make sense, although I'm not sure the story you used makes as good of a reference to me, for others it may make more of a connection.
Thanks for the explanation.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#186753 - 09/22/05 11:28 AM Re: Daily Zen: new week [Re: MAGr]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Have you ever been to someone's house, and been acutely aware of your manners? Someone offers you a drink...if you refuse...you are rude. If you ask for seconds, or take too much...you are rude. If you ask for milk or sugar, and it has not been offered...you are rude.

Accept freely what is given freely...it is not a payback or even pay it forward system...because your taking actually enobles the giver.

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#186754 - 09/22/05 12:37 PM Re: Daily Zen: new week [Re: harlan]
MAGr Offline
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Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
I dont particularly agree with that.
I dont mind people asking for things in my house, up to a point obviously. But that point is quite far away. I do feel embarassed to accept things from people I dont know that well. And I actually believe its bout give and take or paying it forward.

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#186755 - 09/22/05 12:41 PM Re: Daily Zen: new week [Re: MAGr]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
There is a saying that what one sees and understands is a reflection of one's self.

Consider, for a moment, that the same argument can be understood on different levels...even while using the same language. The understanding of give and take on a mundane level is concerned with cups of coffee and the economics of giving. Giving as a concept for personal growth, as a technique for spiritual enlightenment can use the same words as metaphors...but the understanding must be in place to appreciate it.

Kind of like kids listening in to a conversation between adults...they hear the words...but do they understand the different levels?


Edited by harlan (09/22/05 12:48 PM)

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#186756 - 09/22/05 01:01 PM Re: Daily Zen: new week [Re: harlan]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens

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#186757 - 09/23/05 02:48 AM Re: Daily Zen: new week [Re: MAGr]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
A man traveling from New York came to visit a very famous rabbi living in Europe. The man came to the rabbi’s house, a large house on a city street, and was led to the rabbi’s room, which was in the attic. He discovered the master living in a simple room with a bed, a chair, and a few books, nothing more. Disappointed, the man said as soon as he finished formal greetings, “Rabbi, where are your things?”

The rabbi quickly asked back: “Where are your things?”

“But, Rabbi, I’m only passing through,” the visitor said.

“So am I, so am I,” the rabbi replied.

- Western Mondo

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#186758 - 09/23/05 11:16 AM Re: Daily Zen: new week [Re: JoelM]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
That perspective resonates with me...I like it. Not being a particularly materialistic person, I tend to think that the more 'things' one owns...the more they own you.

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#186759 - 09/23/05 11:43 AM Re: Daily Zen: new week [Re: harlan]
je8ki9 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/04/05
Posts: 32
Loc: UK
Socrates said :to be is to do!
Plato said:to do is to be!
Frank sinatra said:doobedoobedoodoo!!!

Sorry harlan cant help my self sometimes
_________________________
John King www.gosokempo.com

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#186760 - 09/23/05 01:32 PM Re: Daily Zen: new week [Re: je8ki9]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
I thought that was the budweiser penguin (love that bird)

Anyways, I think you actually have a point, John. Sometimes we are trying to hard to think about what we are doing/trying to do and being/trying to be that we need to just sit down or run away and doobedoobedoo!!!

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