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#185840 - 09/14/05 01:41 PM Veg and Non Veg
mouli Offline
Member

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 97
Loc: Chennai, Tamilnadu, India
Hi guys,

I would like to know whether you can get all the needed energy from vegetables only. By Veg only, I mean No Meat.
I hear some people saying that you can be strong and have energy only if you eat meat. At the same time, I also hear people saying that consuming a lot of meat causes health problems.
Here, I dont intend to comment or criticize anyone.
I'm a vegetarian and I practice MA.
Can you get the same protien content through Vegetables, what you get by eating meat.
So is there any difference w.r.t power, energy etc., between a Veggie guy and a Non Veggie Guy.
Your comments are greatly appreciated.

Mouli

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#185841 - 09/14/05 04:25 PM Re: Veg and Non Veg [Re: mouli]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
The answer is yes. How do I know this ... check out Bill Pearl ( http://www.billpearl.com/ ). This guy was big in his day and is a legend. I read Bill's bio and he switched to being a vegetarian and still is. He even competed while being a vegetarian and won many titles.

I can't remember word for word but he says the body eventually adapts to the diet change and converts what is needed to energy. Of course Bill also took multiple supplements and admits to steriod use in his earlier career. He later realized that he needed to lead a healthier life for himself and his followers.

THE MAN: http://www.billpearl.com/career.asp

He even competed up into his 50's ... man ... what a guy.

"Bill Pearl, 74, is a five-time Mr. Universe and author of the best-selling bodybuilding books, Keys to the Inner Universe, Getting Stronger, and Getting in Shape. He has personally coached more major contest winners than anyone else in history. At his own peak as a bodybuilder when he last won the Universe in 1971 at age 41, he weighed 242 pounds at a height of 5'10" and his arms measured 21 inches!"

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#185842 - 09/15/05 02:58 PM Re: Veg and Non Veg [Re: Dereck]
mouli Offline
Member

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 97
Loc: Chennai, Tamilnadu, India
Hi,

I read in some article long before that a person's mannerisms change according to his food habbits.
So do you think that people who take Non veg stuff are more aggresive. Obviously you can see this difference in animals.
I do accept that Bill Pearl was a Vegetarian and still was strong. But his parents could be Non Veg.
So do you think Bill Pearl being a Vegetarian would have had the same power and energy say if his parents and 2 or 3 of his great grand parents were Vegetarians.
This question remains unanswered to me for so long.
Whats your view on this?

Mouli

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#185843 - 09/15/05 03:29 PM Re: Veg and Non Veg [Re: mouli]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Interesting.

Obviously genetics plays a factor in all of us. Genetics decides how tall we will be, how big our extremities will be, and how our bodies will develop BUT how we change our bodies from day to day is up to us.

If Bill Pearl came from a vegetarian family over multiple generations and he worked his body the same way he did from the beginning, he would still be that person he is today or at least in my opinion.

When we are born we get DNA from both of our parents and our parents are made up of DNA from their parents and so on and so on. We are what we are and cannot change ourselves on a molecular level but on a day to day level we can. What we eat gives us energy so if we eat more we can get further energy. I could come from a generation of thin people but I control if I can get fat. When the amount taken in is greater then the amount used then it has to go somewhere. Of course genetics will dictate where it gets deposited and genetics will dictate the amount of fat it can burn so of course I may put fat on less then one person but more then another person. Now if I exercise and push my self to my limits, take in the needed fuel and nutrients, I can become stronger and develop larger muscles then my past generation. BUT does this mean that my lineage will be larger NO.

Can food we eat change people on a molecular level? That is a good questions and I can only provide my thoughts. With all of the preservatives, steroids, chemicals, etc. used in processing of dairy, meats, and other food sources could this explain why many youth of today are larger or develop earlier? Or maybe the food we eat doesn't change us on a molecular level but activates genes in each of us that we already have but activates it earlier. That we all posses this capability but some just arrive at it sooner. That when a mother nurses her child with chemically induced milk from a steroid filled cow that these activate the genes in that child to develop quicker in some areas but this same child without this milk would still have developed the same over time. When you look from yourself to your parents, siblings and other family or look at past generations are there not similarities. Sure there are always anomalies but for the most part isn't there a pattern? A pattern or genetic make up?

I'd have to give this further thought but good question. Your thoughts?

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#185844 - 09/15/05 03:51 PM Re: Veg and Non Veg [Re: mouli]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Sorry, forgot about the mannerism question.

Do foods affect mannerisms in people? They do in animals and I will use the ferret for an example. My brother-in-law used to have two of them. He was told never to feed them meat ... sounds like a gremlin and don't get it wet. The ferrets were all fine but then they did get some meat and they did turn more aggressive. Many other animals will get this way ... take pirahanas or sharks for instance ... blood drives them into a frenzie.

Now this helps me explain this a little better. Each of us in our genetics has the capability to be aggressive or not. Now what we have that the animal kingdom doesn't have is an advanced brain. We can think things through and make decisions to control ourselves or not. Some obviously think less but this is that person and I don't think that eating a particular food has the same affect that it does on the animal kingdom.

If somebody eats nothing but junk then this person will most likely be slow and lazy and lethargic and possible more laid back. Somebody who drinks coffee and caffiene products excessively could be more hyper. Yes it affects us but only to a small degree. I'd hate one day for somebody to come up with the defence that the guy had a huge steak at The Keg and then killed somebody for denting his car with their door because he was on a protein high.

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#185845 - 09/15/05 04:10 PM Re: Veg and Non Veg [Re: Dereck]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
As well as Bill pearl, there was a great 80's pro bodybuilder called francis Benfatto, who, as I recall claimed to be vegan!

Thing is that you can get all the nutrients you need from a vegetarian (non meat) diet, but you have to be more up on the nutritional make up and content of what you are eating. Most importantly in this respect is the amino acids present in non meat protein sources. Meat tends to have a better spread of the essential 8 amino acids than vegeteable protein. The answer is 'complimentation'. This means that if chicken contains aminos 1-8, beans contain amino's 3,6 and 8, and lentils contain aminos 1,2,4,5 and 7; a combination of beans and lentils in a meal will give you the same quality of proteins as you would find in a chicken breast. This example is not accurate nutritionaly, it merely offers an example of the theory.
Animal, vegetable, mineral, the body doesnt care once it is broken down into its nutrients via digestion.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#185846 - 09/16/05 06:32 AM Re: Veg and Non Veg [Re: Cord]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
What about fatty acids? Fish oils? Omega vitamins?
What about if you enjoy meat? What about making sure you eat healthy and balanced and not worry about the little differences in preference created by a diet paranoid and lazy society.
People in the Mediteranean live longer (fact) is it because they are vegetarians? Is it because they are carnivores? Neither, its because they eat balanced diet of meat AND vegetables, and try to avoid processed foods.

You want to be strong and healthy, eat natural foods. Doesnt matter what. And just try and limit the intake of saturated fat, but think about it, do you think eating some cheese is going to make you weaker?

I hate all this diet crap.
You want to know the secret?
Exercise, eat fruit and vegetables and meat and everything mother nature provides and cook with olive oil instead of lard.
Thats it.
Of course if you are a bodybuilder you take supplements and your diet has to more specific but are you a bodybuilder?

Someone actually said once that humans where never supposed to eat meat and that their stomachs are not designed to digest it. What a load of manure! I can digest meat just fine, in fact I fought and won a battle with a 15ounce steak last night and I m the better for it!


Edited by MAGr (09/16/05 06:35 AM)

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#185847 - 09/16/05 07:28 AM Re: Veg and Non Veg [Re: MAGr]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
MAGr, for many, vegetarianism isnt 'diet crap' its a choice based on them feeling uncomfortable about their food coming at the expense of an animals life. I have no problem with that. I am omnivorous, but I would not impose this choice on anyone, any more than I would want to be forced to be vegetarian.

Your point about EFA's and the like, only goes to further illustarate my point that you must be more nutritionaly aware to make the lifestyle balanced and healthy for you.

Flax oil contains EFA's and does not compromise a vegetarian lifestyle.

The question was if a vegetarian diet can be nutritionaly balanced and healthy, not if you agree with it.
The answer is yes providing you educate yourself in sound nutitional facts and apply them to your eating choices.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#185848 - 09/16/05 07:44 AM Re: Veg and Non Veg [Re: Cord]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Quote:

MAGr, for many, vegetarianism isnt 'diet crap' its a choice based on them feeling uncomfortable about their food coming at the expense of an animals life



Hey man I dont have any problem with that either (more meat for me! )

Quote:

The question was if a vegetarian diet can be nutritionaly balanced and healthy



As nutritionally balanced as eating meat also? No. Why? Well, if it was then you wouldnt have to watch your intake so carefully, and would not have to take supplements for what you are missing from not eating meats. There is a way to make eating just vegetables work, but you have to involve external forces, its not balanced on its own.

Quote:

The answer is yes providing you educate yourself in sound nutitional facts and apply them to your eating choices.


If there is a 'providing you do this' after a 'yes' then its not a very convincing 'yes' IMO

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#185849 - 09/16/05 07:53 AM Re: Veg and Non Veg [Re: mouli]
Chanters Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 559
Loc: Manchester, UK
You can be strong, energetic and healthy living on a vegetarian diet. You can get the same amount of protein from vegetables, beans and pulses as meat aslong as they are combined with other things like rice or wheat-based foods. While I have to agree there are a few vegetarians I know whose diet is appalling because they have not done their research. However I also know other vegetarians who live on a healthy vegetarian diet and include myself. You could say the same about alot of meat-eaters though.

Personally since becoming vegetarian, I feel more energetic, my immune system seems to have improved and generally feel healthy. I go for regular check-ups at the doctors and each time I come out with top marks. I go the the gym 2-3 times a week and aikido 1-2 times a week.

To say it is bad to eat too much meat, I think is too much of a blurry statement. With farming methods nowadays feeding most livestock antibiotics and other drugs, I think this is what is more potentially harmful. As most livestock don't get much room to move or exercise meat now usually contains more fat than before. Chicken should no longer be considered a healthy, low-fat meat especially if it is from a farm which allows no room to move and the chickens are feeding constantly. They (scientific study carried out on chickens from a farm in the UK which was aired on a food programme) now reckon that chicken meat can contain up to 40% fat.

To summarize, like everything, consume foods in moderation, this is the key.
_________________________
Chanters

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