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#185397 - 09/17/05 03:40 AM Re: Guide to Pressure Point Basics [Re: je8ki9]
jamesd Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 145
Loc: Essex,England
Hi John,

I don't think Gavin is quite ready for Full Contact knitting, i would suggest some semi contact basket weaving!

On a more serious note, i do believe he's doing a great job with PPS on this forum!!! I'd take my hat off to him if i wore one!! regards,

James
_________________________
www.hardfasthandway.com

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#185398 - 09/17/05 04:55 AM Re: Guide to Pressure Point Basics [Re: jamesd]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
James with your killer cross stitch, I'm suprised we haven't had a Kempo champ in the UHC (Ulitmate Hobbyist Championship!)

Anyway, cheery banter and back slapping aside, can we try and get this thread back on track. For my guide, thinking about it some more and in view of the opinions stated in this thread, I think it might be worth highlighting the risk of acidental K.O's. I'm still against adding revival techniques per se, but it would be responsiable to highlight the risk and need to seek qualified instruction in the revival methods.

Also, what do the rest of you guys think about adding atlest a brief introduction to some of the concepts of TCM and Daniel's 5 principles of Kyusho. Might encourage the reader to research further? Maybe simply introducing the Cycle of Destruction, Yin and Yang, etc simply as concepts? Or do you guys this might be too much or too indepth for the guide?

Gav
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#185399 - 09/17/05 09:26 AM Re: Guide to Pressure Point Basics [Re: Gavin]
jamesd Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 145
Loc: Essex,England
Hi Gavin,

Quote:

Also, what do the rest of you guys think about adding atlest a brief introduction to some of the concepts of TCM and Daniel's 5 principles of Kyusho. Might encourage the reader to research further? Maybe simply introducing the Cycle of Destruction, Yin and Yang, etc simply as concepts? Or do you guys this might be too much or too indepth for the guide?




I think this would be a great idea Gavin!, the subjects mentioned above will provide us with endless discussion, maybe we could discuss Daniel's 5 principles one at a time, that way we might not go too far ahead of ourselves, what do you think mate? regards,

James
_________________________
www.hardfasthandway.com

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#185400 - 09/17/05 10:07 AM Re: Guide to Pressure Point Basics [Re: Gavin]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
I think the present format is ok, not too in depth for the people only beginning to look at this stuff. If it starts getting too deep it may put some people off.
*Note to KG*
I teach people each week how to break bones and suchlike. I don't need to teach them how to set a broken bone first.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that this an academic thread. Anyone stupid enough to try these points out on their own, like me, does so at their own risk.
Now where did I put those patterns...
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#185401 - 09/17/05 12:07 PM Re: Guide to Pressure Point Basics [Re: McSensei]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
IMO the kind of people that have the personality that they'd actually try to use this information to do harm are too lazy to bother to try it out for real. Not to mention training to hit pressure points accurately takes a ton of practice which these lazy people will never make an effort to do.

Just my opinion.

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#185402 - 09/18/05 04:22 AM Re: Guide to Pressure Point Basics [Re: jamesd]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
[To KG]
I think KG you're probably getting the impression that everybody has completely dismissed your point of view (thanks for the support everyone, BTW). We've got a great oppotunity to help others understand and get into PP's, if you got all this experience, why not help??? If you're not prepared to do this, please please stay out of our threads, you're sorely not welcome.
[/To KG]


Anyway, I've been thinking about this guide a lot. As Mcsensei said, I think it could be very easy to go too indepth with this and put people off before they start. And paradoxbox's point about this stuff not being as easy just reading a webpage is spot on.

My thoughts and intentions at the begining of starting the guide were to provide it in a simple format (afterall McSensei is reading it! hehehehe....Sorry Tony! ) the basics of how to actually attack the points, to act as a companion to the PP of the week threads. Obviously a glaring omission was how to practice them safely (kindly highlighted by MAGr's sensible question!), which has now been included. I will add to the list a caution about K.O's.

Apart from that, I'm pretty much happy with the guide as a howto to help with the PP of the week. I think there is enough information between the PPotW threads and the guide to start getting *experienced* MA's to start looking at the PP's and how they can apply them to there own MA's. We've now got a great oppotunity to start discussing and helping each other apply the points within any given system. I think I'm going to write a bit at the begining of each PPotW asking how people might apply the point within there given system or style. Obviously I only think about it from a Kempo/Karate point of view, between us all I think we could help others apply it to their systems.

So, this brings me onto my idea for the next little project. What are peoples thoughts on a TCM/Kyusho principle of the month/week/whatever time period style post. Much in the same style of the PPotW, keeping it fairly basic, brief and purely academic? At the end we could put it all together into a guide similiar to the PP striking one.

Thoughts, flames and money always welcome!

Gav


Edited by Gavin (09/18/05 04:39 AM)

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#185403 - 09/19/05 08:43 AM Re: Guide to Pressure Point Basics [Re: Gavin]
kempo_student Offline
Member

Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 44
Loc: Venice, Italy
Ok Gavin,

When I will have enough time i'll write you something about kyusho principles...
25, 26, 27 November I'll be in London for a 3-day George Dillman Martial Arts Training Camp, this seminar is not focused on Kyusho-Jitsu, it's more general... But it will speak about PP, TCM, CHI and traditional (really traditional) eastern MAs.
As you I can't wait... I hope to gain so much as I've gained in the previous seminars.
So I can write you something of HOT

Waiting for that date, I want to continue the PPotW discussion and I'm also interested about the idea of partecipate in the mantaining of the TCM aspect of the month (or another period or another topic).
The problem is that I know a lot about TCM and Kyusho but I'm not properly an expert and so I cannot will be deply, deply on my explanations, and as you know I don't know english so good...
Never the less I am really interested about it.

If this like you, let me know so I can start...

Bye Gav

-----------
Daniele Nosella

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#185404 - 09/19/05 08:59 AM Re: Guide to Pressure Point Basics [Re: Gavin]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Good Morning Gavin:

Question for the man who practices "them" (ie PP)...<wg>? A very fundamental question. The ability to touch and the need for human contact is fundamental to our species. The ability to harm is the classic nature vs. nurture debate.

You practice pp striking... how do you practice this without long term/immediate damage? Whether we believe in chinese medical theory, asian medical modalities or not, if you or I are practicing a technique which is solely intended to render unconsciousness...

How do you practice it without instant damage, and very definate long term harm??? (I can be knocked out how many times a day with no ill effects <wg>)

I can practice throws, I can practice ballistic strikes very gently. How do you "gently" practice rendering unconsciousness, (or disrupting my "energy" flow) without definate and certain inherent damage being done by the practice itself?

Jeff

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#185405 - 09/19/05 10:37 AM Re: Guide to Pressure Point Basics [Re: Ronin1966]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Hi Jeff,

Wow, where to start. The ability to harm, I see this as nature personally, we all have an inbuilt natural ability to harm. The nature or nurture arguement is to do with the desire to harm. IMVHO to harm someone who is trying to harm you is a very natural thing. The desire to physically set out to harm someone is related to nurture, although maybe I don't think that is nesscarily the correct term to use. However, I think if the desire to harm is motivated by the need to survive, for example if you kill someone to obtain food or something else essential to your survival, I feel it can fall under nature aswell.

As for practicing rendering someone unconsciousness. I really don't see the difference between this and practicing to throw someone or strike someone. Anything we do, that is capable of harming someone, is going to have a negative effect on the body. Applying a wrist lock, no matter how gently it is applied is still going to cause wear and tear on the body to a certain extent. With throws, at some point (if your trainng for reality that is) you are going to have to have thrown someone properly. Are you going to slam someone into the floor everytime you train? No, not if you want keep on their christmas card list. If you want to learn how to punch, you're going to have to throw one properly. Are you going to throw punches at someone full power 100% of the time? See previous Christmas card statement. PP's are no different.

We can talk about the theory of PP fighting till we're blue in the face, but it doesn't mean that we can effectively use them, at some point you're going to have to put them on. Anyone who has ever practiced PP striking will vouch that once its activated you don't generally want it even touched again, let alone struck. So a majority of the time you won't hit the point really more than once or twice. The rest of the time it is working getting the body to move in the right manner, with the mental intention of striking, but not the full physical intention.

So in anwser to your well put question, I feel that I practice PP's in the same way I do all aspect of the MA's. Sometimes with the full physical and mental intention, which is needed to make sure the job is being done properly, and at other times with full mental intention, but not nesscarily the full physical intention.

Gav

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#185406 - 09/20/05 05:29 PM Re: Guide to Pressure Point Basics [Re: Gavin]
Jango Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 28
Hey Gavin are you going to that George Dillman seminar? If so it would be nice if someone gave us a review on how it was .

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