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#185340 - 09/12/05 10:48 AM Compulsary Kata for Dan grading
znra251 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 39
I was dissapointed to find out that my association KUGB have recently decided make Bassai Dai the mandatory kata for 1st Dan, removing the choice of Kanku-Dai, Bassai-Dai, Empi, Jion and Hangetsu.

I will not be affected by this as i'm taking my dan grading the month before it comes into affect. However, i think it will be to the detriment of Dan grades not to specialise in one of these various kata for the first Dan grading

How do other associations feel about this?
Do most styles have a choice of kata for the first Dan?

gary
www.karateonline.org

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#185341 - 09/12/05 03:29 PM Re: Compulsary Kata for Dan grading [Re: znra251]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
weird thing about KUGB...I thought the highest rank in Shotokan was Go-dan? so whats with the 9th,8th and 7th dan ranks in KUGB?

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#185342 - 09/12/05 06:18 PM Re: Compulsary Kata for Dan grading [Re: Kintama]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
I believe the limitations on Dan ranking up to Godan, within Shotokan, were based on the fact that at his death Master Funakoshi, the founder, was a Godan. I am also to understand that upon his death these restrictions did not then apply. The restriction then being to one grade below the next Chief Instructor.
Seems like Super Ego to me to think that you could know more about a system than the person who effectively created it and grade above them.

The first thing I think when I see anyone with a rank above 5th Dan is, "ah, so you are more knowledgable about karate than master Funakoshi, mmm!"
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#185343 - 09/13/05 08:00 AM Re: Compulsary Kata for Dan grading [Re: znra251]
shukokaichap Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 269
Loc: Back in th UK!
This may be linked to the WKF rule that if in a kata competition there is more than x (sorry, can't remember the exact amount) amount of competitors then you must in the first round perform one of your styles 'shitei' (compulsory kata).

In shito / shukokai that means Bassai Dai / Seienchin.

Which are also the two that are generally done for 1st Dan.

So removing your choice could be seen as a bit of quality control by the KUGB!

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#185344 - 09/13/05 08:46 AM Re: Compulsary Kata for Dan grading [Re: McSensei]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
I have no idea about karate but I am going to get in this conversation anyway

Quote:

Seems like Super Ego to me to think that you could know more about a system than the person who effectively created it and grade above them.




I dont agree with the above statement.
I will conceed that it would be rare and very hard to actually be better than the creator of a system. But I dont think it is by default that its not possible to know more than they do.
If you agree that it is possible to know as much as that person, then with a little ingenouity it would not be beyond the realm of imagination to see someone actually improve upon a system. I am not talking about MMA, but every system, however traditional, develops.

The architect who first made the Corinthian Columns 2500 years ago is not the one who makes the best moulds of them.

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#185345 - 09/13/05 09:10 AM Compulsary Kata for Dan grading [Re: znra251]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Good Morning Gary:

<<How do other associations feel about this? Do most styles have a choice of kata for the first Dan?

Eeneay, meany, miney, moe...

Our choice is simple, we demonstrate them all . A total of 8 unarmed kata... After Shodan we explore-specialize on some very specific ones, but prior to shodan ranking, the focus is not on one per se... save the one you are doing at that particular moment at any rate

Look forward to hearing what others do, hope this helps keep the thread prominant for that purpose...

Jeff

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#185346 - 09/13/05 09:55 AM Re: Compulsary Kata for Dan grading [Re: McSensei]
znra251 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 39
Quote:

I believe the limitations on Dan ranking up to Godan, within Shotokan, were based on the fact that at his death Master Funakoshi, the founder, was a Godan.


.

this is true, master funakoshi was a 5th Dan when he died. However, the JKA adopted the 10 Dan grade system employed in most karate styles to ease their acceptance into world bodies, (WUKO??? JKF???? one of the two)

With regard to the Shitei kata question - bassai dai is a shitei kata for shito-ryu and not shotokan, so i cant see the logic of the KUGB imposing bassai dai, whioh is almost never done in shotokan style in competition now as it is not acceptable in the opening two rounds and isn't difficult enough for later rounds. It would have been more logical if this change occured for 'quality control' reasons to make the compulsory kata either Jion or Kanku Dai, the two WKF shitei katas for shotokan. Also, the KUGB and WKF do not interact much, The kugb and JKA itself hold competitions and dont use the WKF rules.

gary

www.karateonline.org

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#185347 - 09/13/05 08:45 PM Re: Compulsary Kata for Dan grading [Re: znra251]
shotokanwarrior19 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 129
Loc: Cortland, OH, USA
At my dojo the required katas to be performed for the 1st dan test are all 5 of the Hein katas, Tekki Shodan and Bassai Dai. Kanku dai, Jion and so on can be learned before 1st dan but are not required for testing. So its not to surprising to me that bassai dai is the chosen kata in ur organization and as far as and degree above 5th in shotokan, i also believe that 5th should be the highest because no one in shotokan can surpass master funakoshi in knowledge of the art.
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#185348 - 09/14/05 03:23 AM Re: Compulsary Kata for Dan grading [Re: shotokanwarrior19]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
Quote:

At my dojo the required katas to be performed for the 1st dan test are all 5 of the Hein katas, Tekki Shodan and Bassai Dai. Kanku dai, Jion and so on can be learned before 1st dan but are not required for testing. So its not to surprising to me that bassai dai is the chosen kata in ur organization and as far as and degree above 5th in shotokan, i also believe that 5th should be the highest because no one in shotokan can surpass master funakoshi in knowledge of the art.




Who says we can't?

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#185349 - 09/14/05 03:45 AM Re: Compulsary Kata for Dan grading [Re: Mark Hill]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Hi, I'm not a karateka but the thread looked interesting. Interested to read Master Funakoshi was 'only' 5th dan. My question is, who grades the master/founder of a style? To go higher would he have had to grade under a panel of masters or would it just be a time served grade. OR... have dan grades changed in value over the years?
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