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#185210 - 09/11/05 04:17 PM what exactly is a mcdojo?
ai-uchi Offline

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 200
Loc: harlow essex
i have watched people use this term, and often it is prefixed with the term sport karate or the like. I am positive that if some of you seen me train you might say mcdojo karateka and more than likely vice versa (hope it is spelt right), also the fact that somebody does train in a sports orientated organisation does not make it a mcdojo. Indeed some might say Ticky Donovan is a sports karateka yet a mcdojo - i think not.

i get the impression righly or wrongly from some people that they are very quick to denounce that which they do not agree with.

As for what a mcdojo is, i'll leave that for the more enlightened amongst us (indeed let him who has not skipped a training session throw the first mawashigeri).

PS attending my first EKBG referees course next week - am i in danger of becoming the lettuce in a mcdojo
streakers - your end is in sight

#185211 - 09/11/05 04:51 PM Re: what exactly is a mcdojo? [Re: ai-uchi]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts

#185212 - 09/11/05 05:07 PM Re: what exactly is a mcdojo? [Re: ai-uchi]
McSensei Offline

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1069
Loc: Kent, England
Take it easy mate you're not in a McDojo. I say that because judging from your post you train in Ishinryu. So does my sister in law and she is now a registered instructor in that style. I have never known anyone in Ishinryu (and I trained with Richard Condon a few times at his Dartford club) be under the illusion that it is anything but sport orientated.
There are a fair number of things that make a Mcdojo, being purely a sport karate club doesn't make it.
Take this as gospel from a guy that knows about Mcdojos.

#185213 - 09/11/05 05:56 PM Re: what exactly is a mcdojo? [Re: McSensei]
vfist Offline

Registered: 09/03/05
Posts: 4
Loc: California
Thanks for the posts with the definitions above. I am still new here. I agree with most of what is in those definitions.

However, I do not agree that a Dojo can't or shouldn't be run as a profitable business as long as the standards are not compromised in the process and the students are not taken advantage of by high test fees etc.

I have seen some posts that infer that Dojo owners should be teaching only for the love of M.A and that the business side of the Dojo is bad. In a perfect world, all Dojo owner's would be independantly wealthy and train us for free, but in the real world Dojo owner's need to make a decent living and should not be made to feel guilty if they do. For those Dojo Owner's with integrity and standards, by running the business profitably they have no outside finacial pressures to keep them from focusing 100% of their effort to the Dojo and towards constant improvement.

#185214 - 09/11/05 07:18 PM Re: what exactly is a mcdojo? [Re: vfist]
kenposan Offline

Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 633
Loc: Columbus, Ohio

no one says you can't be a successful business without being a McDojo. The point is that McDojos are not scrupulous. They deceive in their advertising, make grandious promises, and delude their students. They sacrifice quality instruction to keep enrollment up. I am sure there are many good dojos that turn a nice profit.

As to the question about sport karate, I don't think anyone here has stated that all sport-oriented schools are McDojos. I came from a sport-oriented dojo. Lots of sparring, little else. We had high standards (I spent three years at brown belt) and didn't compromise them. You either met the standard or you didn't. We never claimed to be anything other than a kickboxing/sport-oriented school. We never used contracts. We refused to promote anyone younger than 16 to black belt (and they had to spar adult black belts, not other kids, and no quarter was given).
The angry man will defeat himself in battle, as well as in life. -Samurai maxim

#185215 - 09/11/05 07:29 PM Re: what exactly is a mcdojo? [Re: ai-uchi]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Ai-uchi -

No one is equating sport dojo with McDojo.

As said above, unscrupulous business practices (excessively long contracts, exorbitant test and/or equipment fees, little care for student's actual training, etc) are the primary factors in that determination.

I have no problem with paying good money for good instruction.

And believe me, there are plenty of RBSD (non sport) McDojos out there. I came from one.
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

#185216 - 09/11/05 11:05 PM Re: what exactly is a mcdojo? [Re: MattJ]
Bushi_no_ki Offline

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
In total agreement with MattJ. I enjoyed the "sport" aspect of studying MA. It was a nice way to have some fun with what I learned.

I also came out of a school, that while good in instruction for higher belts, is slowly slipping into mcdojoism. I've got a solid SD base out of it, so it wasn't a waste, but I decided it was time to get out of Dodge before it went too far. I'll just have to get my black belt elsewhere (yes, that does mean you guys talked me out of my well intentioned but impulsive vow).

#185217 - 09/12/05 02:08 PM Re: what exactly is a mcdojo? [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
CA_Isshinryu Offline

Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 98
Loc: California
The original poster is part of the European Ishinryu that is lead by Master Donovan. This I have read is a sport based karate but I really have no firm information on this at all as I live in California. This does not make it a McDojo from my understanding. I study Ishinryu based on Mast Shimabuko (sp?) from Okinawa which is a different style.

My understanding of what McDojo means is that it's a school setup to take your money for a subpar product. As said above, I have no problem at all paying good money for good instruction. My current Dojo, while the most expensive and most marketed I have been apart of is also offers the best product I have seen based on the 5 different schools I have been a part of in my life.

#185218 - 09/12/05 03:02 PM Re: what exactly is a mcdojo? [Re: CA_Isshinryu]
webby Offline

Registered: 02/13/05
Posts: 147
Loc: newton abbot devon
i also do not understand what a mcdojo my area we dont use the term what is it... is it just a secseffel club??(cant spell)

#185219 - 09/12/05 09:32 PM Re: what exactly is a mcdojo? [Re: webby]
kenposan Offline

Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 633
Loc: Columbus, Ohio

I don't agree with every point, but it seems pretty much on the mark.
The angry man will defeat himself in battle, as well as in life. -Samurai maxim

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