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#185011 - 09/10/05 09:23 AM Two interesting applications
znra251 Offline

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 39
1) Bassai Dai - First move. Could the leaning forward then rapid step into strike be a clever way of making ground on an opponent before unleashing the strike.

watch someone do it if they're standing in front of you. Most of us judge distance by feet position. Its kind of an optical illusion, the attack is upon you before the feet give away the movement.

2) Empi - could the leaning gedan block to the rear followed by an orthodox gedan bari be a deception. The leaning block draws the oponent in by making them move further and the gedan bari to the front may actually be a strike with hikite to the attacker from behind, driving the elbow back with the front block.

just two ideas, let me know how you feel these would work


#185012 - 10/13/05 04:28 AM Re: Two interesting applications [Re: znra251]
sumrandom Offline

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 52
Loc: Western Australia
The application you give for the opening of Bassai is pretty much standard, I woulda thought. In fact, I can't think of any others. Anyone else?

As for the application for Empi... well yes it is an application that will work but to me it doesn't look like the designer of the kata had it in mind as the primary interpretation. If it was really an elbow strike, why would you not place your leading hand on your fist to drive the elbow home? And surely you wouldn't want to be in front stance if you're trying to get maximum power to the rear. It just doesn't fit IMO

#185013 - 10/18/05 04:43 AM Re: Two interesting applications - Empi [Re: znra251]
John45 Offline

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 15
Loc: London, UK
Hope it is OK just to add my thoughts here.........

Regrading Empi and the postabout possible applications:
I teach it as a combination that starts with :

1) Standing in front of the opponent (with a realistic close distance). The hand coming up and striking (anywhere in the face, the rising knee can be a strike to the groin (if the distance is right)followed by dropping with bent knees with a fist strike to the groin. The hand that comes around the neck is actually grabbing someone into you.
We now have the classic empi stance, where we are facing front, bent knees with a low fist and the other arm wrapped around our necks.
When, you turn into the rear gedan bari, the opponent simply is thrown over the rear leg.
The "rear" gedan gbari is simply where his head will be and the trapping of your other arm is just entrapping the opponents other arm and breaking it .....

Not a pretty throw but, very effective. I think the Judo guys call it Tiatoshi.


#185014 - 10/19/05 12:11 AM Re: Two interesting applications [Re: znra251]
Lokkan-Do Offline

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 1411
Loc: Ontario, Canada
About Bassai Dai

The first movement could be a defense against a double wrist grab..first pulling away to make the opponent pull his body in opposite direction...then use the force of his pull to strike with double forearm block...

I think it can also be a defense against a single wrist grab..where the attackers hand is trapped and a wirst lock is applied


#185015 - 10/19/05 03:17 AM Re: Two interesting applications [Re: Lokkan-Do]
dogfacedboyuk1 Offline

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 116
One interpretation of the opening move of Bassai Dai is a double grab against a stabbing attack or in a position where you can grab the assailants arm. Now this would/should make the opponent resist and pull against you, this is where the fall forward into the next position works to your advantage - but now I'm getting ahead of myself. Pull your opponent in, then when they resist throw the blocking movement in a circular fashion and drop forward, placing your falling foot behind their leading foot, then grip the front of their leg with your advancing left leg and pull in tight trapping their leg. They should be thrown down if they resisted. You could also use the knee strike if the target presents itself on the way in. A devasting bunkai if you can make it work. If it fails the knee strike and empi/uraken should still do their job! Hope that makes sense.

#185016 - 04/13/06 09:39 AM Re: Two interesting applications [Re: znra251]
gurugomf Offline

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 3
I've seen some interesting applications to the first move in Bassai Dai, one of which in it's most basic form is a rush forward towards an opponent as somebody else has stated. However, the closest advanced application that I have found for this move, is, if your opponent has grabbed hold of you with both hands, if you move your right arm over both his forearms grabbing hold of his right hand with your right hand and then placing your left hand over your right hand (using your left hand to pull your right hand down), then following kata bring your knee up to strike to his groin (or stomach), you will find that your right hand comes back automatically doing two things a) bringing him in closer to meet your knee as you strike and b) stopping him from releasing his grip on you (same principal as a standard assisted block). After the groin or stomach strike, again, follow kata and using the thrust forward with the assisted block strike forward and down either onto the jaw bone to break or onto the main artery or pressure points on the kneck causing severe pain or unconsciousness. Sorry if it's a bit long winded but it's very difficult to describe what I've just explained without a diagram, give it a go and see how you get on


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