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#184755 - 09/10/05 10:40 AM Re: Jitte [Re: Mark Hill]
kakushiite Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/03
Posts: 266
Loc: Ithaca, NY, USA
Mark,

You stated: There is one sequence where this looks obvious. I've seen Nakayama's "Best Karate" bunkai and I am suitably unimpressed.

I whole heartedly agree. I too am suitably unimpressed with Nakayama's "bunkai" for this kata. I feel the same way about virtually all the "bunkai" in all his books, and all the other official JKA publications.

Regarding your statement "There is one sequence that looks obvious" I also concur. Most good bunkai I have seen is not obvious. For the 20 applications in Jutte I practice against a bo, they took a lot of trial and error to develop. I searched the web repeatedly for similar approaches and was not successful.

There is certainly some good work being published on pure empty hand applications for Shotokan kata by many karateka, including the ones below:

Vince Morris
http://www.kissaki-usa.com/store.htm

Tony Annesi,
http://www.bushido-kai.net/budoya/video_karate_list.html

Elmer Schmeisser,
http://karatethejapaneseway.com/books/Tekki_review.html

Ian Abernethy
http://www.iainabernethy.com/

Werner Lind
http://www.chindadojo.org/videos/vidorder.htm

However, I am unfamiliar with any publications that have been done regarding Jitte bo defenses.

-Kakushiite

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#184756 - 09/10/05 01:46 PM Re: Jitte [Re: kakushiite]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Thank you, Kakushite, for the correction.
Always learning!

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#184757 - 09/10/05 07:28 PM Re: Jitte [Re: harlan]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
Can someone explain what they think the step low block/slide high block, high mountain posture/kick sequences are?

Why three low palm stikes?

Why the strike to the right after the salutation and slow pressing block?

As for the "obvious" sequence - I see it as a series of throws but haven't been able to produce any goods yet.

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#184758 - 09/11/05 04:49 AM Re: Jitte [Re: Mark Hill]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

Why the strike to the right after the salutation and slow pressing block?





I'm not particually good at interpreting Kata, but I'll try and give a "possible" application:

Firstly the opening salutation (I have no idea why the feet would be brought together). This could be a pre-emptive strike with the right hand striking up into the corner the of the jaw hinge (ST5, ST6 or TW17 for example) with the left hand collapsing into the Gall Bladder Cluster at opponents left hand side of the upper forehead (This has a nasty stunning effect on the brain).

Now if you look at the next sequence he steps back into a long deep stance with right hand being brought back to hip and the right hand palm up. The left hand could be grasping onto the head/hair with the step back taking the opponent off balance to expose the trapeze muscle. The fact the upward facing palm strike actually twists into position would add penertration for a thudding type strike to the trapeze muscle and the back of the neck (GB20, GB21 or BL10 as possibly targets).

The side step and slow push. From the above sequence the opponents body is going to be lurched out and leaning forwards. The effect of the smashing downward palm would cause the shoulder blades to meet, and the knock on effect from this would cause the elbows to fly outwards and upwards. Its just the natural of bringing the shoulder blades together. This leaves the arm open to a break. Imagine the left hand cupping up under the recipients lower right arm. Now with the right arm coming down slightly above the recepients elbow (TW11) for a break.

The end twist could be a shoulder dislocation or throw. Don't think this could be a neck break because the right hand stays where it is.

Hope that made sense, and sounds somewhat realistic! I acually really liked that kata, short, sharp and powerful!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#184759 - 09/11/05 05:23 AM Re: Jitte [Re: Gavin]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
For the salutation, I had a same hand S-lock, then peel into a finger lock and finish with an open hand strike to the carotid. I suppose the lateral strike could throw them....

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#184760 - 09/11/05 05:32 AM Re: Jitte [Re: Mark Hill]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Nah I'm not happy with the throw explanation. The angle that it comes in on is perfect for a strike into the back of the neck, with a finishing strike with the other hand. Sorry I've only just got up.

Not convinced about the S-lock, the angles just ain't right.
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#184761 - 09/11/05 05:33 AM Re: Jitte [Re: Mark Hill]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
It seems to me that the actual application of what we described is actually remarkably similar - but concentrating on gaining a different advantage initially.

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#184762 - 09/11/05 05:35 AM Re: Jitte [Re: Gavin]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
Quote:

Nah I'm not happy with the throw explanation. The angle that it comes in on is perfect for a strike into the back of the neck, with a finishing strike with the other hand. Sorry I've only just got up.

Not convinced about the S-lock, the angles just ain't right.




The throw is not credible in my explanation, but my S-lock works. If it requires a bastardised S-lock, so be it.

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#184763 - 09/11/05 05:41 AM Re: Jitte [Re: Mark Hill]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Don't think the throw was particually credible in mine either. RE: S-lock, as long as the wrist goes crack, I'm cool with that!!!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#184764 - 09/11/05 07:20 AM Re: Jitte [Re: Gavin]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
Actually you could reasonably say that the stepping of the feet together is similar to a very small "circle in" motion found in Hapkido...

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