FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 52 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Shanktotheright, royal, bobgalle100011, agenonline, TooNice
22862 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 3
MattJ 2
Jeff_G 1
Marcus Charles 1
TooNice 1
April
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30
New Topics
Judo Olympic Games 1964 Tokyo, The Video Gallery
by ergees
04/01/14 05:26 AM
Muay Thai Seminar with Greg Nelson - Marcus Charle
by Marcus Charles
03/24/14 04:39 PM
Fighting On Saturday!!!
by Dobbersky
03/20/14 05:45 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
AKK kata question
by
09/04/05 01:27 PM
Recent Posts
AKK kata question
by MattJ
04/04/14 05:45 PM
Judo Olympic Games 1964 Tokyo, The Video Gallery
by ergees
04/01/14 05:26 AM
Fighting On Saturday!!!
by Jeff_G
03/30/14 12:44 AM
Muay Thai Seminar with Greg Nelson - Marcus Charle
by Marcus Charles
03/24/14 04:39 PM
Forum Stats
22862 Members
36 Forums
35546 Topics
432375 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#184745 - 09/09/05 05:30 AM Jitte
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
Ugly, vitrually useless.

I have bunkai for the salutation and the end sequence can be made up. But the rest?

Damn ugly too.

Top
#184746 - 09/09/05 06:03 AM Re: Jitte [Re: Mark Hill]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
What style is it from? Do you have a video link?
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

Top
#184747 - 09/09/05 07:47 AM Re: Jitte [Re: SANCHIN31]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
Mainly Shotokan, but not widely practiced.

Apparently, it is from the Tomari tradition, through "Gusukuma" or "Ason".

Apaprently, it was also a Sai form, but this seems unsubstantiated.

Top
#184748 - 09/09/05 07:50 AM Re: Jitte [Re: Mark Hill]
shukokaichap Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 269
Loc: Back in th UK!
Quote:

Ugly, vitrually useless.

Damn ugly too.




I practise the shito version and I must say I agree about the ugly part, that said I also dislike Jiin and Jion. The bunkai that we practice is fairly basic for all these kata, so I wouldn't say useless but hardly interesting or stimulating.

Top
#184749 - 09/09/05 09:30 AM Re: Jitte [Re: shukokaichap]
Chatan1979 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 338
Loc: Mahomet , Illinois
yeah not a pretty kata by any means.but it has some great bunkai. Especially some nice bo disarms.
_________________________
There is always someone who knows more, and noone who knows it all....

Top
#184750 - 09/09/05 07:23 PM Re: Jitte [Re: Mark Hill]
kakushiite Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/03
Posts: 266
Loc: Ithaca, NY, USA
Mark Hill wrote

"Ugly, virtually useless."

On the beauty of Jitte, form follows function. To me, if something has utility, then it is a thing of beauty. If it doesn't, who cares.

Regarding utility, I believe you may only be half correct in stating it is virtually useless. In one sense it is useless because the likelihood of someone attacking you with a bo is pretty remote. But in Okinawa, 150 years ago, people carried staffs around often. They were used to carry buckets, bundels and baskets. The staff was carried horizontal across one's neck and shoulders with the buckets hanging at each end. If you had lived in that time and place, you might have have found Jitte to be very useful. My perception is that it has some of the most effective empty hand bo defense found in kata.

I can begin any sequence and use the movements, as they appear in the kata, for effective defense, many stripping the bo from both hands of the attacker. What is really interesting is that virtually each sequence, with minor adjustments, works effectively against symmetrical attacks. (Right overhead, left overhead, or right thrust, left thrust, e.g.)

This is with the Shotokan version, which I would imagine is the original. Regarding the Shito Ryu version, there are many differences and I have not been able to apply these movements effectively against the bo.

Against the bo you need big movements and stride to cover the distance, since the attacker with the bo is further away. There are two sequences of kiba dachis that cover a lot of ground. Just what is needed to evade, close the big distance, and in some cases pass the opponent to strip the bo from the back hand, once you have stripped it from the front.

I enjoy practicing and teaching empty hand bo defense. It is a bridge between bo-oriented kobudo, which is also pretty useless on the street, and empty hand karate.

If it surprises you that all of Jitte can be used against bo attacks, then you might be surprised that many kata have movements that can be used against the bo. For example, the sequence of knife hands/spear hand found in the beginning of Heian Nidan/Pinan Shodan. Although this sequence has many applications in pure empty hand, it also works effectively against a thrust of the bo (left foot forward). You can strip the bo from both hands with this sequence.

This Heian Nidan application is one situation where the longer back stances found in Shotokan can be more useful as compared with the shorter cat stances found in most Shorin Ryu versions of the kata. The longer stances add the distance you need, especially if someone is fully utilizing the length of the bo for the thrust.

Kakushiite.

Top
#184751 - 09/09/05 07:51 PM Re: Jitte [Re: kakushiite]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Interesting thread...is it possible to move it to Weapons? I recently read an article on the history of the jitte (Classical Arts? EJMAS?)...an interest associated with Sai. Can anyone point me to other materials regarding the history of the weapon? (Other than internet, of course.)

Thank you.


Edited by harlan (09/09/05 07:55 PM)

Top
#184752 - 09/09/05 09:04 PM Re: Jitte [Re: harlan]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
I can see grappling and some weapons disarms, but not the "jump the bo and do a triple flying sidekick" like in the Nakayama books.

I practiced a Sai form once empty hand, and found it had a lot of tripping etc. It opened the door a little to the mystery that is Jion.

Actually, we have apracticed Jiin in depth when our Sensei went for his 4th Dan, and it has some awesome throws in it.

Top
#184753 - 09/09/05 10:53 PM Re: Jitte [Re: harlan]
kakushiite Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/03
Posts: 266
Loc: Ithaca, NY, USA
Harlan,

You may be confusing two things here. The term Jitte refers to both a weapon (the sai) and an empty hand kata. This thread is on the kata, so it is best to leave it here.

A video of the kata can be found at the following:

http://www.shotokan-arts.com/video/shd7hg_Jitte_Modern.mpeg

Before the Shotoplanet web site was taken down, there was a statement attributed to Nakayama that said the kata was primarily for bo defense. There are a bunch of web sites that say the same thing but don't attribute the information to anyone.

http://www.kojosho.com/kata.html

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/susan.phillips83/kata.htm

http://www.jka-albany.org/pdf/kata_name_translation.pdf (includes an odd statement that the kata is usually performed with the bo.)

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/jitte

Regarding the jump in Pinan/Heian Godan, the following link shows Funakoshi himself doing the jump.

http://www.ucd.ie/karate/documents/whatisshotokan.pdf

-Kakushiite

Top
#184754 - 09/10/05 06:30 AM Re: Jitte [Re: kakushiite]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
First of all, I meant the mystery that is Jiin.

Quote:

Before the Shotoplanet web site was taken down, there was a statement attributed to Nakayama that said the kata was primarily for bo defense. There are a bunch of web sites that say the same thing but don't attribute the information to anyone.




Who thinks this is applicable? I certainly don't. There is one sequence where this looks obvious. I've seen Nakayama's "Best Karate" bunkai and I am suitably unimpressed.

How do they practice it with a Bo?

The jump in Heian Godan is an over the shoulder throw, where the opponents arms are locked out, as I see it.

As for "Jitte", I have seen sources which this AND Jiin were Sai kata once. This is unsubstantiated however...

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga