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#184329 - 09/06/05 08:46 PM HOW DO YOU TEST YOUR SYSTEM
Mannie Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 19
Hi everyone,

How do you test if your system is effective as a self defense art.
And i dont mean against your own system of techniques.
And i also dont mean in a controlled or passive way.
How do you test it and know do you know it works.

Mannie de Matos
Hakarac Boxing

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#184330 - 09/06/05 10:01 PM Re: HOW DO YOU TEST YOUR SYSTEM [Re: Mannie]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Why, you simply go out onto the streets and start fights, killing your opponents. How else? *rolls eyes*

What are you trying to sell, Mannie?
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#184331 - 09/07/05 09:50 AM Re: HOW DO YOU TEST YOUR SYSTEM [Re: MattJ]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
NO, the true test of a system is to crush your opponents, have them driven before you and to hear...sorry, had a Conan flashback for a moment.

The best test I have had of my "system" is open sparring with other MA's in controled but street practical matches. I have found that by doing this, you can see just how many of the dojo/dojang techniques work when you are out of the school. To my amazement and horror sometimes, the things I would expect to work sometimes didn't and the stuff I never expected to work sometimes did.

The only way I found out was by working with other determined MA in one on one fighting/free sparring sessions. MattJ being one of those who pointed out to my nose and other body parts how some of my techniques do not stand up to a practical test while others work just fine. The "battlefield" is the testing ground but there are ways to control the testing. Work with friends and go about 3/4 contact. Use groin protection but all else should be natural.

No technique is off limits but use common sense and control. Do not kick a friend full strength to the groin or gouge his eyes out. Be serious and focussed but use control and common sense. Go hard but set up communications in advance so that you can cry "uncle" when you need to in order to avoid serious injury. Bring in new people from time to time to change the atmosphere a bit but make sure they understand how things work. A discussion should preceed each session to make sure everyone understands what you are trying to accomplish and how things are going to proceed to avoid injury.

Good luck and don't kill each other.

Scottie
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#184332 - 09/07/05 02:32 PM Re: HOW DO YOU TEST YOUR SYSTEM [Re: Mannie]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I'm a firm believer that learning something is better than nothing. As such, I don't place too much faith in a style but rather learn its principles and apply them to a situation. So, I don't really feel the need to test my system, per se. However, inter-art sparring is my favourite way when I get the chance.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#184333 - 09/08/05 08:34 PM Re: HOW DO YOU TEST YOUR SYSTEM [Re: Leo_E_49]
Mannie Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 19
This is not a difficult question. Or maybe it is.

How do you test your system to see if it works.?
1. Do you do scenario based training
2. Do you do random based training
3. Do you do multiple attack training
4. etc...

If you do not test your system, how do you test yourself?

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#184334 - 09/08/05 09:13 PM Re: HOW DO YOU TEST YOUR SYSTEM [Re: Mannie]
ta_kuan_dao Offline
Member

Registered: 06/13/05
Posts: 58
Loc: Memphis, TN
wow, wtf r u asking mannie!? You asked these ppl how they test their style and they told you controlled, but free and realistic fighting with ppl of their own styles and ppl of other styles. U say u mean not controlled sparring but any sparring that is safe has to be controlled in some way by rules and regulations, even if the sparring if full contact. You talk about specific "scenario" training, but did not mention that in ur original question. IMHO "scenario" training drills cannot prepare you for a fight better than a realistically setup match between skilled fighters combined with two man and solo sets(drills). And if you want to train "multiple attacks", just have a battle royale.

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#184335 - 09/08/05 11:48 PM Re: HOW DO YOU TEST YOUR SYSTEM [Re: Mannie]
UofM Shorin Ryu Offline
Resident Forum Breakdancer

Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 981
Quote:

This is not a difficult question. Or maybe it is.

How do you test your system to see if it works.?
1. Do you do scenario based training
2. Do you do random based training
3. Do you do multiple attack training
4. etc...

If you do not test your system, how do you test yourself?




I don't see any other way to "test" the system other than sparring. Sparring repeatedly tells you whether this technique works or not, and if not, you cut it from the curriculum, or alter it.

Before I graduated, my sifu instructed our class on an altered version of Gan (sp?) Sau in Siu Lim Tao, because through repeated sparring some sifus in our system found out that the old way wasn't working all the time, and the block was ineffective. So they altered it.

If that doesn't answer your question, then I haven't a clue what your asking any more.
_________________________
Alea iacta est ~ Gauis Julius Caesar Ne quis nimis ~ Solon Nuts to cancer ~ Sanchin31

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#184336 - 09/09/05 06:23 AM Re: HOW DO YOU TEST YOUR SYSTEM [Re: UofM Shorin Ryu]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Quote:

Before I graduated, my sifu instructed our class on an altered version of Gan (sp?) Sau in Siu Lim Tao, because through repeated sparring some sifus in our system found out that the old way wasn't working all the time, and the block was ineffective. So they altered it.





Can you describe how you did your gan sau before and after the alteration? Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing... gan sau is cutting block against uppercuts kinda like wax-on/wax-off.
Against what strikes do you use the gan sau for?

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#184337 - 09/09/05 08:42 AM Re: HOW DO YOU TEST YOUR SYSTEM [Re: MAGr]
UofM Shorin Ryu Offline
Resident Forum Breakdancer

Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 981
Quote:

Quote:

Before I graduated, my sifu instructed our class on an altered version of Gan (sp?) Sau in Siu Lim Tao, because through repeated sparring some sifus in our system found out that the old way wasn't working all the time, and the block was ineffective. So they altered it.





Can you describe how you did your gan sau before and after the alteration? Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing... gan sau is cutting block against uppercuts kinda like wax-on/wax-off.
Against what strikes do you use the gan sau for?




It's quite possible I got the name wrong. The block I'm talking about is done in the 5th?? series of moves in siu lim tao, the one that starts with a tan sau on your center line. After the tan sau, we would rotate our elbows directly down to what I thought was gan sau, which was still on our center, like a tan sau pointed down.

We no longer do it on our center line, instead we rotate our elbows and bring it to our sides, which would deflect a low punch (what I learned was the application of this block) off to the side away from the body, instead of the first way, where it was used more as a stopping block than a deflection.
I guess it could be used against a low uppercut directed at your stomach or sternum too.
I didn't get far enough in the system to find out all of its uses, and I don't remember doing too many exercises using it either.

My point was simply that the system I did was changed because through sparring, people found out that the block wasn't as effective as they once thought.
_________________________
Alea iacta est ~ Gauis Julius Caesar Ne quis nimis ~ Solon Nuts to cancer ~ Sanchin31

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#184338 - 09/09/05 09:26 AM Re: HOW DO YOU TEST YOUR SYSTEM [Re: UofM Shorin Ryu]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
yes, we are talking about the same thing.
I would agree with yoy, there have been very few situations where I would think the gan sau block would be effective. The more deflective version that you are talking about makes more sense. The blocks that I would use for body shots would be jum sau, low bong sau and possibly low pak sau. The only time that I have used the gan sau is for a roundhouse kick in combination with tan sau.
If you dont know it, its from the wooden dummy form and you do a gan sau with the left and a tan with the right simulteneously with a left facing turning stance to block a roundhouse kick from the left. I think that is one of the best blocks I have seen for a roundhouse kick

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