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#183995 - 09/06/05 12:18 AM Hypothetical: Cage fight
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
figured it was time for a hypothetical...
Scenerio:
A huge 1 km square enclosed cage. no food or plants in the cage, only 1 small watering hole. you put one of every species of mammal you can think of in the cage.

Which animal gets to drink last?

compare fighting/survival styles or use whatever rational for your answer. enjoy the show.

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#183996 - 09/06/05 12:38 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
CatnPhx Offline
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Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 136
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Not sure that I understand the "which will drink LAST" situation but I know who would dominate the pond.

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#183997 - 09/06/05 12:42 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
SANCHIN31 Offline
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Registered: 12/26/04
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The pig will survive.
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#183998 - 09/06/05 01:11 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
Shidokai Offline
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Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 162
Loc: Fukuoka, Japan
The sloth drinks last.

I'm assuming you're talking about land mammals, as if we threw a dolphin and a whale in there, they'd most certainly just turn into food for the tigers.

Are we considering the animals that get stepped on or eaten in the process to be "drinking last?"
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#183999 - 09/06/05 01:34 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
Belnick Offline
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mice? rats?, worms:p??

something like that, the biggest coward will drink last
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#184000 - 09/06/05 02:02 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
Benjamin Offline
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Registered: 11/12/04
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If you put one of every species of mammal you can think of in the cage, automatically, a foodweb will be formed except that there is no plant at the bottom.

Assuming that the pond water last forever, the plant-eaters at the bottom will die first, including giraffes, horses zebras, and even elephants. After which they become food for scavengers and other carnivores. After all plant-eaters had died, the big carnivores will turned on each other and only the strongest will survive, probably a tiger or lion.

Assuming that the tiger survive, he will now be alone with mices, rats and other such scavengers which has all along took advantage of the situation. The tiger now can't hunt because he is injured after that big brawl with the lion. Sooner or later, he will die off and the mices will feed on him.

After that, I suppose the fittest and strongest of the scavengers will survive be it rat or mice. That little guy will be the last to drink.

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#184001 - 09/06/05 05:02 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Benjamin]
Mark Hill Offline
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How about trying to escape?

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#184002 - 09/06/05 05:53 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Mark Hill]
Benjamin Offline
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Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 301
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Man did. He escaped while others fought to their death. He was smart enough to know that fighting leads to nothing.


Edited by Benjamin (09/06/05 05:58 AM)

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#184003 - 09/06/05 06:14 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Benjamin]
Belnick Offline
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Quote:

Man did. He escaped while others fought to their death. He was smart enough to know that fighting leads to nothing.




lol, nice sarcasm

man is and always will be the most destructive animal there is, we should put it down
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#184004 - 09/06/05 06:27 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Belnick]
Cord Offline
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Loc: Cambridge UK.
Chimpanzee. Has greater agility and speed than man, so stands a better chance of reaching the cage walls. Once there, has greater climbing ability, and is more suited to survival 'off the ground'. Could scavange the dead animals as omnivorous. Man would be cut down on his attempt to reach the cage perimeter.
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#184005 - 09/06/05 06:40 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Cord]
Benjamin Offline
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Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 301
Loc: S'pore
Nay. The chimpanzee would not want to escape. After all, the wild is the wild. Even if it escaped back to the jungle, he is still faced with the dangers of predators and the fight for food. Why not just stay? He can still scavange there, can't he?

For the man, all he wants is to get back to his family in the city, drink some beer and snuggle in his warm bed. The man will probably have more cause to escape.

Who knows, the man may just befriend a dog and chimpanzee and they may together escape utilizing each other's strength. Teamwork!


Edited by Benjamin (09/06/05 06:42 AM)

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#184006 - 09/06/05 06:46 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Benjamin]
Cord Offline
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The chimp would seek safety on high, so would gravitate to the cage wall and be better equiped to climb it.
Man, no matter what his intent would neither be able to outrun nor outfight any predator he met on his way to the cage, then if lucky enough to get there, it is debateable that he would be able to climb well enough to get to the top, and certainly not fast enough to avoid being plucked like an apple by a hungry Grizzly/lion/tiger.

Where does it say in the initial premise that escape is possible? its a cage not a playpen
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#184007 - 09/06/05 06:53 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Cord]
Benjamin Offline
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Loc: S'pore
One of man's strength is making use of other animals. He can find a domesticated horse, considering most horses are domesticated, and ride swiftly to the boundary.

Once there, not necessarily must men climb its way out. It can dig its way out too. Together with a domesticated dog, a teamwork may just worked. Digging solves the problem of the cage, unless the floor is made of cement.


Edited by Benjamin (09/06/05 06:55 AM)

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#184008 - 09/06/05 07:01 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Cord]
harlan Offline
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Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
There is only one of each mammalian (sp?) species? I ass-ume they are all male, well-fed (depending on the carrying capacity of the environment), the water is constantly replenished, and that lacking any social structure that would support territorial behaviour (no females, no troop, etc.) they are all pretty content.

Where's the fight? A bunch of lolling males...the last one to drink is the slowest to get there.

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#184009 - 09/06/05 07:10 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Benjamin]
Cord Offline
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or maybe he could tame a tiger, using a snake as a whip, and a small goat as a chair. Having tamed the beast, it could be set upon all other animals at his command, until all threats are removed. Whilst the tiger is doing his thing, our man could become 'king of the moles' and get them to create an elaborate subteraenean escape tunnel system for him, his stripey protector, and all other creatures wise enough to acknowledge his mastery to flee to a new utopian tarzanocracy.
Or he could just get eaten because his opposeable thumbs and big brain wont mean $hit unless he happens to have a gun and a lot of ammo with him
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#184010 - 09/06/05 08:18 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Cord]
Benjamin Offline
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Loc: S'pore
Sorry, but you can't tame a tiger...it's different. Horses are mostly domesticated. What do you know? Man may not even need the horse. It is just 500m consider the run from the center to the boundary. Even without the dog, the man can dig a hole for himself. Anyway, chimps aren't necessarily faster than man though...unless there are trees for them so swing about. Technically, man are better evolved to run than chimps.

Still, I would bet on the man to be the first to escape...well even though chances are that he may not. Man are not like food for those carnivores. These carnivores would rather eat deers, giraffes or other large mammals considering that man does not provide much protein. Not saying that it is definite, but chances are, they would eat the larger herbivores.

I am not telling a tale or anything. Just trying to weigh things on probability. Anyway...let's not get too off-topic shall we. What do you think is the mammal that drinks last?

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#184011 - 09/06/05 08:32 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
glad2bhere Offline
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Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
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The man would drink last.

Using his greater intellect he would find the most expeditious way to pollute the water so as to accomplish his goal of dominating all other lifeforms. Consistent with past behavior patterns he would realize too late that while he had succeeded in dominating other lifeforms (instead of living equally with them) he had also polluted the only source of water and would then die from disease as he drinks the polluted water in a thirst-driven madness.

BTW: It is recorded countless times that animals of widely varied species will "co-habitate" around a waterhole during during drought in Africa without exploiting the situation to their advantage. Only Humans prey on each other during times of desperation. Only Humans would see any reason for doing so. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

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#184012 - 09/06/05 08:41 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: glad2bhere]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

BTW: It is recorded countless times that animals of widely varied species will "co-habitate" around a waterhole during during drought in Africa without exploiting the situation to their advantage. Only Humans prey on each other during times of desperation. Only Humans would see any reason for doing so. FWIW.




Apart from alligators, who like to stay submerged near the waters edge to pounce on drinking wildebeasts, but not being mammals, they wouldnt be in the cage .

1km square is not enough space for peacefull co habitation of every species of mammal on earth. The lion will not lay with the lamb if they are only 3 inches apart
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#184013 - 09/06/05 09:25 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: glad2bhere]
Benjamin Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 301
Loc: S'pore
Sorry, but how is it that the man can pollute the water? I don't think even his waste and urine can do much of a harm in a large pond. Even if he does that, I bet the animals are too stupid to even know that the water is contaminated, much less submit to him.

Well, this time I got to agree with Cord. It is too small for the animals to you know...co-habitate. Don't forget that they too need to eat. Mices will be the last to drink and man will be the first to escape is still my stand.

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#184014 - 09/06/05 09:42 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
good points so far.
some thoughts and qualifiers:
Reptiles are not mammals.
Quote:

Mammal - Any of various warm-blooded vertebrate animals of the class Mammalia, including humans, characterized by a covering of hair on the skin and, in the female, milk-producing mammary glands for nourishing the young.



I used the term 'mammal' and 'animal' interchangable...sorry. I meant just mammal.

* the water supply is continuous.
* the cage cannot be escaped.
* each mammal is male.
* the temp stays 70F/20C and it does not rain. normal day/night cycles.
* each are well fed, are in the middle of their average life cycle, and in good health at the start of the scenario.
* none of the mammals are domesticated (except perhaps the human of course).
* the average size human has any background of training/skill which exists today, except enters with no weapons.

* the mammal drinking last will be the ultimate survivor. ie: nothing else in the cage will be alive when that mammal drinks again.

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#184015 - 09/06/05 09:50 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
MAGr Offline
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Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
I have given the question great thought (yeah right) and have concluded that the last mammal to drink would be the vampire bat.

The argument:
No food or plants. That rules out survival of the herbivores, if not for the reason that they are food for the carnivores. Soon all that would be left eventually would be the carnivores, and the vegetarians who realised they were being daft.
The remaining carnivores would eat each other and all that would remain would be a bat and a large carnivore (say a lion)
Now you will ask why a bat would survive? well a bat can fly and is also the only carnivorous (I realise other birds eat worms and mice but that doesnt count) bird that I know of. It also feeds on fresh blood from sleeping prey.
It lands on you whilst you are sleeping and releases a anaesthetic from some glands. It then makes a hole about a inch deep and laps up your blood much like a cat would 'drink'. The anaesthetic solution that is excreted also prevents blood clotting and so deprived of medical attention the victim would bleed to death in its sleep.

So I do believe that the last animal to drink would be a bat (granted blood instead of water, but that is all within the parameters of the question).


Post script:
Man would be one of the first to be pushing up the daisies!

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#184016 - 09/06/05 09:51 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Well, in that case...my money is on the hypercarnivore. Any of the big cats. Scratch that. The nastiest animal I ever came across was a 2 ft. Martin. It ate our cats, chickens and terrorized our dog. It was a pleasure putting it down...and we had the benefit of a gun at the time.

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#184017 - 09/06/05 10:07 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Come on, everybody knows the cockroach is going to outlive everything else.

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#184018 - 09/06/05 10:46 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: BigRod]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Cockroach is not a mammal. Actualy, thinking about it MAGr's answer is genius. Because of being nocturnal it would feed at much safer time, also it would roost out of reach of any predators. Its nutritional needs are met simply with blood. The only thing is that whatever carnivor was left alive as its last remaining source of blood may outlive it through scavenging and having a longer natural lifespan, but the Bat would have a great chance on a purely 'designed for survival' basis.
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#184019 - 09/06/05 11:11 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: MAGr]
Benjamin Offline
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Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 301
Loc: S'pore
I like the vampire bat hypothesis, but one problem exists though. The cage does not seem to harbor any caves or dark chambers for the vampire bat to hide in the day. Pretty dangerous for the vampire bat during daytime if so.

The vampire bat is blind...not that it is really blind, but devolved vision due to the lack of use of it at night. Echolocation is used instead. When used in the daytime, it presents 2 problems. Echolocation is much inferior to vision in light. Echolocation is also meant for the night since it is much quieter. As a result, our bat may lose its sense of direction during the day. Also, without any things to hang on, that bat will have to land on the land which puts it on the same level as mices. Since there are no natural hideouts such as grasses and caves, I assume that the animals will be kept awaken even at night. I don't think anything would become an easy victim for the bat though.

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#184020 - 09/06/05 11:19 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: harlan]
Benjamin Offline
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If cage is empty, scavengers can't survive because guerillas tactics don't work now. I place my money on the carnivores then. Probably the tiger.

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#184021 - 09/06/05 11:21 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Benjamin]
MAGr Offline
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Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Quote:

The cage does not seem to harbor any caves or dark chambers for the vampire bat to hide in the day. Pretty dangerous for the vampire bat during daytime if so.

The vampire bat is blind...not that it is really blind, but devolved vision due to the lack of use of it at night. Echolocation is used instead. When used in the daytime, it presents 2 problems. Echolocation is much inferior to vision in light. Echolocation is also meant for the night since it is much quieter. As a result, our bat may lose its sense of direction during the day. Also, without any things to hang on, that bat will have to land on the land which puts it on the same level as mices. Since there are no natural hideouts such as grasses and caves, I assume that the animals will be kept awaken even at night. I don't think anything would become an easy victim for the bat though.




Since it is a cage, it has a caged roof which provides ample footing for the bat to hang upside down (as they do).
It is true that they emmit frequencies to gauge distances but I am pretty sure that they can adapt to navigating in the day time.

Quote:

I assume that the animals will be kept awaken even at night. I don't think anything would become an easy victim for the bat though



I beg to differ. When a vampire bat lands on you it feels like nothing more than a breeze running through your arm hair, and with more than 1000 different animals, I doubt that the victim would be muh aroused from a breeze.

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#184022 - 09/06/05 11:21 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Cord]
harlan Offline
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Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Niche partitioning.

Quote:

Because of being nocturnal it would feed at much safer time, also it would roost out of reach of any predators. Its nutritional needs are met simply with blood.



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#184023 - 09/06/05 11:26 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: MAGr]
Benjamin Offline
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Loc: S'pore
I understand the point about the caged roof. What kind of roof? Flat roof? How do you hang on a flat roof?

The problem is during the day. During the day, there are other mammals emitting sound waves too. Whether it is low as in elephant or high as in whales. The reason echolocation works is that during the night there are less sound waves.

True, it lands like a breeze. How does it feel to be like bitten? Ok, maybe it is painless. If not, vampire bats will never get to feed. LOL...stupid me.

If the bat can survive the day, I will put my money on him.


Edited by Benjamin (09/06/05 11:31 AM)

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#184024 - 09/06/05 11:30 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Benjamin]
MAGr Offline
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Registered: 04/11/05
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Loc: London, home: Athens
Quote:

I understand the point about the caged roof. What kind of roof? Flat roof? How do you hang on a flat roof?




Its a cage, dont knit pick!

Quote:

The problem is during the day. During the day, there are other mammals emitting sound waves too. Whether it is low as in elephant or high as in whales. The reason echolocation works is that during the night there are less sound waves.




Fair enough, furry muff.
the assumption is that it will keep its sleeping patterns and sleep durin g the day even if there is sun.

Quote:

True, it lands like a breeze. How does it feel to be like bitten? LOL



local anaesthetic remember? The only thing that you might feel is when the running blood reaches a part of your body that has no anaesthetic on it.

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#184025 - 09/06/05 11:36 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: MAGr]
Benjamin Offline
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Oh the painkillers...sorry forget! LOL

If the vampire bats can indeed sleep in the sun, and they can hang at center of the roof, vampire bats will survive.

Tiger: This is unfair! Mr Bat can sleep in the sun. I want to fly too.

No offense intended.


Edited by Benjamin (09/06/05 11:44 AM)

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#184026 - 09/06/05 12:05 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Benjamin]
Kintama Offline
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Registered: 04/17/05
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throwing some wood on the fire...

* would it matter if the human could use/make something out
of the bones and carcass of the less fortunate? (if the human would even survive long enough to outlive the herd mammals). sleep deprivation would seem to be a factor as well.

* what about mammals that burrow?

* what are an elephant's chances?

* would a tiger/panther/lion fight each other? is so, which is your money on?

* how about a bear vs gorilla?

* what would be the first to die? I'd say the cow.

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#184027 - 09/06/05 12:24 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
Benjamin Offline
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If the human outlive the herd mammals by luck, it could use the bones to make weapons. Eg. Swords made from elephant's ribs, deer's anthlers. Problem is, there are no stones or any tools to help the weak human remove the ribs. As such, they can only use limb bones which are blunt serving no use at all.

Since it is an unescapable cage, I presume that either the ground is cement or the cage is suspended in air. Makes no difference if the mammal can burrow.

The elephant will survive until it is starved out. Obviously nothing wants to attack it till it is dead.

They would fight each other for food. I put my money on the tiger since it is the strongest physically.

Bear vs gorilla? Gorilla of course. Bears are temperate and polar mammals. I think they would be weaken as a result of heat stroke in a 20c environment. What's more, the gorilla can climb on the cage as well.

The wild cow is actually a force to be reckoned with. I say the kangaroo dies first.

Are sea mammals included in this big brawl? Wow...a blue whale.

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#184028 - 09/06/05 12:34 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Benjamin]
MAGr Offline
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Human dies first.
Trust a human to do some dumb ass thing and try to establish authority by trying to stare down a lion.
Either that or he panicks and gets eaten by the nearest animal just to shut him up.
Humans also have no fur, which is a very attractive prospect for carnivores, and cannot fight back (also a very attractive prospect)

Realisticly speaking I would assume that the big animals such as the big cats and the gorilla, bear etc, there would be a big king of the hill match until the king of the hill would actually reamin but by then would be too exhausted and wounded to actually kill and eat another animal and would die of bleeding to death. In which case ALL that wouldbe left would be the vegetarians, which would get eaten slowly but surely by.....
thats right! the BAT
Humani definetely dies first.

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#184029 - 09/06/05 12:43 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: MAGr]
harlan Offline
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I agree...human dies first. No mention was made of the resources available to human. On his own, au natural, if he doesn't starve, or get eaten he will probably die from simple exposure.

I think the one that will survive the longest would be the mouse.


Edited by harlan (09/06/05 12:46 PM)

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#184030 - 09/06/05 12:46 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Benjamin]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
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Loc: Cambridge UK.
If we are going to be uber strict on mammals only in the cage, then the burrowing mammals will have no insects/worms to find in the soil, so would starve before the 'overlanders'. A human with a femur versus a hungry lion? no contest. Humans hunted in groups to be effective with rudimentary weapons. One guy on his own is doomed.
Any of the big carnivores could win on any given encounter, tiger vs lion is like liddell vs couture, different outcome each time
As for bear versus Gorilla, I am going with Grizzly bear based on number of weapons and size advantage.
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#184031 - 09/06/05 12:49 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: MAGr]
Benjamin Offline
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Posts: 301
Loc: S'pore
I was thinking along this line. The big carnivores would fight...but only after all herbivores had been killed when resources become scarce...ah..then is war. Bears are out, they would be weaken by the heat, gorillas too by starvation. Leaving the big cats, obviously the tiger wins, which by then be so weak that it can't hunt anymore.

Omnivorous primates can just climb and stick to the cage while watching the big brawls. After one fell, they can swiftly climb down, carry some meat and go up to feast. Eventually the tiger dies, the omnivorous primates survive for as long as till they kill each other and starve out. Well, the bat will continue to drink blood and so will be the eventual winner.

What if our representative turn out to be a strong and smart one? First thing he does, he climbed up the cage to wait and scavange. Eventually, he will be one of the surviving and strongest omnivores. The gorilla appears to be the only primate stronger than the human. The human as the last survivor, may look to the bat up there for food. Who knows, human may be the last survivor?

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#184032 - 09/06/05 12:52 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Benjamin]
Cord Offline
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Loc: Cambridge UK.
A fully grown baboon and/or chimp would kick a humans a$$ in a life or death fight
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#184033 - 09/06/05 12:57 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Cord]
Benjamin Offline
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Posts: 301
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Not really, humans are larger than chimps and baboons.

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#184034 - 09/06/05 01:08 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Benjamin]
Cord Offline
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Posts: 11399
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Heh, trust me my friend, the physical attributes of either of these animals is far superior to our own. Size is not a factor in this equation, different species, different rules. Add to the advantage in power the fact that an adult baboon has fangs as long as 4-5 inches and you have a super fast super aggressive Jack the ripper with a bright red a$$. They dont put barriers up in zoos to prtect the animals from the humans
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#184035 - 09/06/05 01:16 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Cord]
harlan Offline
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Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
So, this 'cage fight' scenario...it is really about species survival in a limited space, with limited resources? Kinda like...a metaphor for what is really on going on this planet already?

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#184036 - 09/06/05 01:20 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: harlan]
Cord Offline
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interesting point harlan, the longer the topic has continued, the more it has made me think of the recent tragedy in New Orleans, and the behaviour that has come to the fore in situation of privation of space and resources. Scary.
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#184037 - 09/06/05 01:34 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
rideonlythelabel Offline
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Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1242
Loc: st-hubert quebec canada
I think maybe the grizzly bear would be the last to die, because I don't think any animal can kill it, except maybe a gorilla but they are vegetarian anyway, and a well fed grizzly bear can go a long time without eating, so it would be the last thing alive after everything else has starved to death.

Quote:

* would it matter if the human could use/make something out
of the bones and carcass of the less fortunate? (if the human would even survive long enough to outlive the herd mammals). sleep deprivation would seem to be a factor as well.





I don't think a lone human with a femur or something could do much of anything. Just like wolves and hyenas, humans have survived because of group mentality.

More fuel for the fire;

What if the human has boy scout training and succeeds in starting a fire before it gets killed? It could scare away the wild animals, and he could also dry meat for later use, instead of seeing it all rot.

I think that eventually the last living predator's hunger will overcome his fear of the fire, and he'll have himself a nice snack.

Quote:

* what are an elephant's chances?




I don't know much about elephants, but I presume they need a HUGE calorie intake every day, and therefore would starve pretty quickly.

Quote:

* would a tiger/panther/lion fight each other? is so, which is your money on?





The lion, because it's bigger.

Quote:

* how about a bear vs gorilla?




Tough one. The bear (assuming it's a grizzly or a polar) is bigger, and has claws. On the other hand, the gorilla has a different skeletal structure, which could make it more efficient. A bear has shoulders pointing inwards, and a different pelvis, it's closer to a four legged animal than a two legged one. The gorilla has shoulders and pelvis more like ours, allowing for a wider range of movement, including punching, hammerfists, where a bear can only swipe. Gorillas can grab stuff, a bear can't. Gorillas are also damn strong and tough, and have huge fangs, maybe that could make the difference.

Quote:

* what would be the first to die? I'd say the cow.




I say the chicken.

edit; oops not a mammal.


Edited by rideonlythelabel (09/06/05 01:41 PM)

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#184038 - 09/06/05 01:36 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Benjamin]
Kintama Offline
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Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
I heard of attacks on a human before from a chimpanzee... they rip, tear, bite and snap anything in reach at lighting speed. here a story of such an attack...ripped the human's face off.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articl...aves_questions/

I don't think the human would have a chance against 75% of the cage population in a fight to the death.

Harlan, very observant.

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#184039 - 09/06/05 02:03 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Cord]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Quote:

Cockroach is not a mammal.




DOH! I guess reading really is fundamental.

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#184040 - 09/06/05 02:38 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: BigRod]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Hold on here. Gorilla vs. bear? You're kidding, right? A polar bear can weigh WELL over 1000lbs. A male silverback gorilla weighs, what, maybe 500-600?

Polar bears can pull frikkin' WHALES through the ice!

Bears pwn gorillas, all day long.
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#184041 - 09/06/05 03:03 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: MattJ]
Kintama Offline
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Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
ok... polar bear vs. lion?

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#184042 - 09/06/05 04:47 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
cxt Offline
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Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5811
Loc: USA
I am going with vampire bat.

Since a cage has holes it could just fly away in search of food if it had to.
It can cling to the top of the cage and just wait out the fights below-perhaps in a corner to avoid being prey to something else.

Since it drinks blood--and does so with a great degree of stealth it should be ok as long as there are living creatures below--and it still can fly away if it needs to.

Plus, I don't think that vampire bats drink water at all--so it would be the "last one to drink" period

Kin, did you ever watch the TV show "Animal Face-Off" discovery channel program that pitted such animals in a computer generated fight.

They set each animals performance based upon the actual physics, say of how hard they could bite, claw etc.

They did alot of animals--such as a tiger vs its smaller rival the lion, gorilla vs jaguar, hippo vs croc, etc.

(they also match behavior as well)

Very interesting show.

I would go with polar bear--assumeing of course that the lion could survive the low temps the bear thrives in--or that the bear could handle the heat of the veldt.


Edited by cxt (09/06/05 04:51 PM)
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#184043 - 09/06/05 09:15 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: MattJ]
rideonlythelabel Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1242
Loc: st-hubert quebec canada
Quote:

Hold on here. Gorilla vs. bear? You're kidding, right? A polar bear can weigh WELL over 1000lbs. A male silverback gorilla weighs, what, maybe 500-600?

Polar bears can pull frikkin' WHALES through the ice!

Bears pwn gorillas, all day long.




It's believed that a male gorilla is at least 10 times and up to 27 times as strong as a human. It's also believed that gorillas can kill a leopard with a single strike. (from wikipedia.com) They have such huge arms and fists, they must punch so hard. A polar bear's weight must have a big percentage of fat, since they have to swim in ice cold water. And a gorilla has a skull like three inch thick.

I stick with my ape brothers!!!

Gorilla by GNP in the first round!!!
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patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.

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#184044 - 09/06/05 10:18 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: rideonlythelabel]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
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*MattJ, shirtless and face painted white, sits in audience with huge foam #1 finger that says POLAR BEAR OWNS*
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#184045 - 09/06/05 10:23 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: MattJ]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
I'm trying to keep up with the semi-finalists - in no order: polar bear, lion, gorilla and vampire bat.

is that right?

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#184046 - 09/06/05 11:02 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
Benjamin Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 301
Loc: S'pore
The tiger would kill the lion, since it is much bigger. Tigers hunt alone wheres lion hunt in group. Lion may not be that efficient in surviving. What's more? Male lions do not hunt. Put me up the list? Tiger please?

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#184047 - 09/06/05 11:08 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: MattJ]
Benjamin Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 301
Loc: S'pore
Polar bears cannot survive the great heat in a 20c environment. They may not be that accustomed to hunting in that cage. There are stiff hairs on their soles, not only to keep them warm but also to give them friction on ice. These increased friction without ice may hinder it.

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#184048 - 09/06/05 11:11 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
Benjamin Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 301
Loc: S'pore
Actually, the gorilla is quite strong. Even though it is herbivore, it can keep its predator at bay till it starve out. Because gorillas are so naturally strong, it's been estimated that a silverback male gorilla has the ability to kill a leopard with just one strike from its massive arms.

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#184049 - 09/06/05 11:16 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
Benjamin Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 301
Loc: S'pore
Grizzilies stand the greatest chance of all. They are omnivorous. One of the strongest and fastest. Bear posesses tremendous power: a large specimen can break a bison's spine with one blow of its powerful forepaw. In spite of their size, some have been clocked at speeds in excess of 35 miles per hour. Aside from their overwhelming strength and deceptive speed, Brown Bears are legendary for their physical stamina. They are capable of running at full speed for miles and miles at a time without stopping. What's more, they are primarily nocturnal. Watch out for this big guy! I am changing my bet from the tiger to the grizzly.

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#184050 - 09/06/05 11:36 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
Benjamin Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 301
Loc: S'pore
The vampire bat will be shocked and disturbed as soon as it was put in the cage, since it can't handle sunlight resulting in erratic flight. Unless he can survive the sun, he stands no chance. Sense of smell will be rendered useless too by the overpowering odour of decomposing carcassess and animal waste. Bats rely primarily on their sense of smell to find fresh blood. A stinking place prevents the bat from sniffing out fresh blood.


Edited by Benjamin (09/06/05 11:50 PM)

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#184051 - 09/06/05 11:56 PM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Kintama]
Foolsgold Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 1635
Loc: South Lyon, MI, USA
Trogdor in the first round by burnination.

*Awesome guitar solo*
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#184052 - 09/07/05 12:28 AM Re: Hypothetical: Cage fight [Re: Foolsgold]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Thread closed until I can be convinced that this discussion has anything to do with Martial Arts.

Joel

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