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#183928 - 07/07/06 11:28 PM Re: Judo V.S Ju Jitsu. What should I take? [Re: MattJ]
Lokkan-Do Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 1411
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Ok...

I am not disputing that BJJ is derived from Judo in fact I agree very much with your point. BJJ is Ne Waza techniques from pre-war Japanese Judo. It resembles Japanese Ju Jitsu in pre-war days and was perserved in Brazil while the martial arts in Japan were modified due to political and moral reasons.

I just wanted to explain the difference anyways between post-war Judo, pre-war Judo, Ju Jitsu and BJJ.

Take care

Lok

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#183929 - 07/08/06 03:57 AM Re: Judo V.S Ju Jitsu. What should I take? [Re: MattJ]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
Yup, BJJ is derived from Judo and Judo from JuJutsu. Honestly I only see the "Ju" in Judo and JuJutsu, and especially emphasized in Judo.

BJJ has great groundwork, Judo - throws and takedowns, overall goodness, and JuJutsu (to me) is a good mixture with emphasis on both takedowns and ground techs.
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

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#183930 - 07/08/06 07:48 PM Re: Judo V.S Ju Jitsu. What should I take? [Re: dre9292]
Amadeu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 11
Loc: England, Kent
no offence but you should get your facts right, BJJ is similar to TRADITIONAL judo in many many ways, its different to Ju Jitsu because in Ju jitsu perticulaly in some styles such as Hakuda ryu which is to my understanding the first set of Tominagi Ju jitsu in japan, have more standing techniques that BJJ, in JJ there are more kicks and punches as well as throws, locks, pressure points and groundwork.

Judo like all styles of mainland Japan Karate such as Shotokan are offshots of JU JITSU.
_________________________
club motto is "If it Hurts It Works"

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#183931 - 07/12/06 09:39 AM Re: Judo V.S Ju Jitsu. What should I take? [Re: Amadeu]
dre9292 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 41
BJJ isnt similar to judo where is all the ground techniques in judo? Judo lacks ground techniques and the term used in japanese is nemaza i think..

in BJJ there is definetly no striking if your talking about jiu jitsu with striking your referring to very old school jiu jitsu that was used by the samurai. If your being taught judo with striking in it you definetly not learning just judo..
your teacher is probaly mixing it with some striking art since judo has no striking in it.

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#183932 - 07/12/06 09:47 AM Re: Judo V.S Ju Jitsu. What should I take? [Re: IExcalibui2]
dre9292 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 41
Ju jitsu, jiu jitsu, ju jutsu call it what you want its preety much the same thing. Judo is derived from jiu jitsu the creator of judo jigoro kane considered jiu jitsu to be unconnected bag of tricks and made judo to connect some good stuff and make a safer version of the grappling art.

As for BJJ its old school jiu jitsu without the striking improved so smaller guys can beat the stronger guys. This adjustment in techniques occured because the creator Hélio Gracie was always small in size. and needed to make some changes to jiu jitsu if he wanted to stand a chance against stronger opponents.

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#183933 - 07/13/06 01:22 PM Re: Judo V.S Ju Jitsu. What should I take? [Re: dre9292]
Glockmeister Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 255
Loc: Lancaster, Pa
Quote:

BJJ isnt similar to judo where is all the ground techniques in judo? Judo lacks ground techniques

in BJJ there is definetly no striking




Judo indeed has ground techniques. When I was visiting a Judo school not far from where I train BJJ, almost half the class was grappling and the other half throwing. There are lots of chokes, armbars as well as "pins" you can use to win a Judo match so not sure where you trained in Judo.
BJJ was not origionally intended just for sport and there were strikes in it. It was "invented" more for self defense and less for sport as it is today. In some BJJ schools that teach self defense, they do teach strikes and defense of strikes.

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#183934 - 07/13/06 01:39 PM Re: Judo V.S Ju Jitsu. What should I take? [Re: dre9292]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

BJJ isnt similar to judo where is all the ground techniques in judo? Judo lacks ground techniques and the term used in japanese is nemaza i think..

in BJJ there is definetly no striking if your talking about jiu jitsu with striking your referring to very old school jiu jitsu that was used by the samurai. If your being taught judo with striking in it you definetly not learning just judo..
your teacher is probaly mixing it with some striking art since judo has no striking in it.




Dre.....you need to do some research, my friend. You are way off base. As Glock said, Judo does indeed have a comprehensive groundfighting syllabus (newaza). It may or may not be emphasized depending on the instructor, but I have attended a Judo class which did emphasize that aspect.

Secondly, regarding striking in BJJ. Again, this depends on the instructor. If you have ever seen the Gracie Jujitsu basics videos, then you would know that BJJ does indeed have strikes and throws and techniques that do NOT end up on the ground.

Get your facts straight, please.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#183935 - 07/22/06 08:58 AM Re: Judo V.S Ju Jitsu. What should I take? [Re: MattJ]
MrSex4You Offline
Stranger

Registered: 07/22/06
Posts: 2
Quote:

Quote:

BJJ isnt similar to judo where is all the ground techniques in judo? Judo lacks ground techniques and the term used in japanese is nemaza i think..

in BJJ there is definetly no striking if your talking about jiu jitsu with striking your referring to very old school jiu jitsu that was used by the samurai. If your being taught judo with striking in it you definetly not learning just judo..
your teacher is probaly mixing it with some striking art since judo has no striking in it.




Dre.....you need to do some research, my friend. You are way off base. As Glock said, Judo does indeed have a comprehensive groundfighting syllabus (newaza). It may or may not be emphasized depending on the instructor, but I have attended a Judo class which did emphasize that aspect.

Secondly, regarding striking in BJJ. Again, this depends on the instructor. If you have ever seen the Gracie Jujitsu basics videos, then you would know that BJJ does indeed have strikes and throws and techniques that do NOT end up on the ground.

Get your facts straight, please.




Yes Judo has a ground fighting system. Judo as a sport must put a whole lot of effort on throws since that is mostly where matches are won and lost.

BJJ traditionally focused alot on groundfighting and as BJJ, the ever evolving sport, this is where it's real strength is. BJJ matches begin standing and hence a solid foundation in throws even without any follow-up could win you the matches, just as long as you don't go to the ground. This however is not the realistic view of a match and hence in BJJ you have to focus both on taking down an opponent and in the very complex ground game.

The curriculum of more traditional schools of Judo and JuJitsu are mostly fixed and not so evolving as that of BJJ. That is how I see it. Of course it depends on the instructor. But if you have an instructor in BJJ that is still fighting alot of real tough matches then he will probably be somewhere between 1-500+ years ahead of more traditional fixed curriculum non-evolving styles. In Judo I just don't see the evolving of new techniques as much as I see the perfection of skills like strength, balance and timing for the techniques that you wish to pursue.

In BJJs favor, a very common training technique is almost an actual match, freestyle sparring. With a good instructor and training partner you will here develop flow, balance, timing and a very good sense for where your arms and legs should be at times, even if the "technique" of this has no real name.

Of course in BJJ and Judo you have a Gi that can hold more than a persons weight if pulled. How is this important? Well what do u want with your training? If you are looking for self-defence, maybe you want to train without a Gi. Although from the fights I've had with friends using normal street clothing, I don't see a problem in applying BJJ with normal clothes.

In BJJ, Judo and more traditional JuJutsu, you usually dont train any kind of striking. Check with your local school for details. Are you missing something? I'd say yes, but not so much. Mostly you are missing something if you want to fight someone that knows how to kick and punch and hold the distance. But if you are looking for self-defence, or looking for good training or something that you can really evolve within, then you can do without all the blows to your head.

And if you haven't gotten it so far. I am in favor of BJJ. And as a single reason, because of the way it looks at a fight and the way it is sparred. If you happen to land in a school that doesn't emphasize standing grappling enough (1 week per day or such) then this will be a weak point in your game and I would talk your instructor into changing this.

Judo has often a similar sparring but I just don't see all the same evolving techniques in the groundwork, and you can lose a match by certain throws, pretty lame as a sport for me. In BJJ you lose if you give up because of pain, or when time runs out you can lose on points. But there is no such thing as losing because you were thrown or because your back is into the mat (aka wrestling).

Certainly anything closer to NHB like shootfighting, shooto etc.. would as far as real fighting goes, be more of the real thing for a real fight. But then again, most people you would fight in a real fight probably arent so good at fighting, otherwise they wouldnt run around starting fights (or are you the one starting .

JuJutsu has a alot of joint manipulations, even against knifes and such etc.. This training is so versatile so I dont know where to start. Its even possible a traditional JuJutsu school would be very close to brazilian jujutsu. But why take a chance with JuJutsu when you have BJJ? If you want knife fighting take kali/escrima classes. You will learn all about sticks and knifes.

Only thing that would push me out of training at a particular BJJ school is if the instructors or the training partners are not as I want them. Aka. very bad, old, unfit, stinky, have serious health concerns like fungus, warts, impetigo, worms, etc.....

While I'm on it. From training bjj, muay thai, north shaolin kung fu, judo, shootfighting, jkd, kali/escrima.

The must fun was, BJJ and shootfighting. And I contribute that to the freestyle sparring and training. Muay Thai, Kung Fu and even JKD/kali/escrima training have been to a big part very stiff. Certainly sparring kung fu is very fun but you dont get to hit in the face or gouch someones eyes and those are the best techniques from kung fu as I see it. Also the long kicks for holding distance. And for escrima, sparring with real knives there were just too many injuries, every session someone bled almost to death and we had to call for ambulance. I dont know how other schools delt with this but the number of students just seemed to decline every time someone died.

So now I dont have any more random thoughts or bad jokes. I forgot the name of who asked originally but I hope that you get a little glimpse into how I see all the sports/styles.

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