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#183714 - 09/04/05 09:24 PM re:rank
aznhonour Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 6
im quite new to this site, and just read the rank post. I was surprised because i thought alot more people here were higher "ranks", but anyways, my point is, rank doesnt really mean much, atleast to me. Its something anyone can get when you are in your club. So, to get a better idea of everyone's "rank", can you guys tell me how long you have been in your TKD clubs, and how active are you within it?

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#183715 - 09/04/05 09:48 PM Re: re:rank [Re: aznhonour]
Christie Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 872
Loc: Waterloo, ON
Quote:

So, to get a better idea of everyone's "rank", can you guys tell me how long you have been in your TKD clubs, and how active are you within it?




Rank has a similar meaning to me as well. It shows your standing, an idea of where you are to yourself and to your instructors. Outside of the Dojang rank means nothing, rank means nothing in a Dojang you are visiting and rank certainly means nothing in another style. It only has meaning in the school you earned it in. Thats my stance on colour belts anyways. Black belt is another stance altogether, especially as you start looking at the higher Dans, but in the end it still means as much as the sweat and effort, the years of training you put behind it, that belt is not always recognition of that effort and sometimes gives more recognition then warranted. A true measure of where one stands is how long one trained and how hard one trains. Perfect practice makes perfect afterall.

Now on topic.

I have been training in Tae Kwon Do for 2.5 years, I started February 1, 2003 - what an easy date to remember. In that time I have trained at three WTF schools, 1 ITF and another independant school belonging to no governing body. As a side note my best experience was had at the independant school. It is the school I started at. In Tae Kwon Do I train 7-9 hours a week - three 1 hour Olympic Sparring classes, one 1.5 hour Full Contact Sparring class, and the remainder of which are curiculum classes.

I start training in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu on September 10th. When I start, I'll be training 5-7 hours a week of BJJ in while continuing (with no cut back in training time) Tae Kwon Do.

My rank - Purple Belt

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#183716 - 09/04/05 10:45 PM Re: re:rank [Re: Christie]
Eric4444 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 430
Here's a question on rank that I was thinking of earlier. Alot of people think rank and time should go hand in hand. However, isn't the purpose of a belt or rank to show your progress? Now I've never been much for ranks, but my instructor very strictly leaves the curriculum taught at one level only at that level. So if I refuse to test, I could train with him for 10 years and he'll never teach me anything new. So I asked to be tested, and he told me, no, it hasn't been a full year since your last belt test. I argued that I thought I was ready, and he agreed, but still said no, because it hadn't been a year. What's with that? If you ask me, time shouldn't matter. I think if a student asks to test for one belt one day, and the very next day for the next belt, there shouldn't be a problem. I mean, if you were an instructor and you tested a student for a blue belt, then the next day you tested him for his red belt, with the exact same standards you would hold for anyone testing for a red belt, and they pass those standards, what's the problem? Rank should only be used to show progress, and by not advancing that student, wouldn't that be contradicting what the ranking system is for?
_________________________
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#183717 - 09/04/05 10:53 PM Re: re:rank [Re: Eric4444]
Christie Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 872
Loc: Waterloo, ON
I don't think time in rank should be as important as the performance of a student when it comes to testing. If the student is ready then the student is ready.

However I also don't think a student should ask to test at all, it should be an invite from the instructor once they think the student is ready.

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#183718 - 09/05/05 05:24 AM Re: re:rank [Re: Christie]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Rank can be a good indicator of technique but don't count on it. I'd agree with you about that. For example, most TKD black belts have trained 4-5 years to get 1st Dan. Because of my instructor's tough requirements it took me 9 years to get a 1st Dan. Most people would be grading for 3rd Dan after 9 years training.

Now, I'm a white belt but you'd be hard pressed to find a MAist of any rank up to 2nd Dan who would find sparring with me easy under any ruleset. (I'd present at least some difficulty)
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#183719 - 09/05/05 06:18 PM Re: re:rank [Re: Christie]
aznhonour Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 6
i agree with christie with this because the waiting time is not only to ensure the student learns everything they need to, but also to make sure they understand what they were taught, since understanding and learning grows at a different rate.

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#183720 - 09/05/05 10:08 PM Re: re:rank [Re: Leo_E_49]
ta_kuan_dao Offline
Member

Registered: 06/13/05
Posts: 58
Loc: Memphis, TN
wow that's a long time, 9 years.
I had to train 5 years to get black belt and another year to make it official under WTF rules. But i agree that rank shouldn't matter much. Belt rankings is mostly a JMA thing. Alot of the more tradional MAs, including classical JMAs, have only three rankings, beginner student, advanced student, and master. IMO, i think that is how it should be.

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#183721 - 09/05/05 11:26 PM Re: re:rank [Re: aznhonour]
zapper Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 42
leo you're from singapore rite..... wat school are you in ITF or WTF?
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#183722 - 09/06/05 07:37 AM Re: re:rank [Re: zapper]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
STF basically under the Kukkiwon (WTF) but we train slightly differently. Other clubs in the STF don't train for as long as my club, typically a BB can be earned in 4-5 years in Singapore. However, if you train in my old club, my instructor has the final say over whether you are ready for a grading and he can forbid you from taking one. That's the reason why it took me so long, I was frequently seen as unworthy of grading.

Besides 9 years isn't that long, I've been training 16 years in MA now and I hope to have many, many more years yet. Maybe when I reach 40 years training in the MA, I'll admit that I've been training for quite a while.
_________________________
Self Defense
(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)

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#183723 - 09/07/05 03:34 PM Re: re:rank [Re: aznhonour]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Started September 19, 2002 so just shy of 3 years. Currently red belt. We train the curriculm set out by the WTF in full but are more a Mixed Martial Art (MMA) school. We then add Hapkido, Jujitsu, BJJ, etc. to the mix with a solid base in Taekwondo for a striking art. No much emphasis in WTF sparring.

Rank, time? Not really an issue as each school is different. Ours, there are requirements at each level so this is where rank is. There is also a minimal amount of time required for each belt based on hours/class time. The majority of the people go beyond this and more. You never ask to be tested, they will let you know. Every 6 to 8 weeks there are tests on Friday nights but if you can go will depend on you learning all of your requirements and them telling you that you are ready. I've been a red belt since April and will be for months still. The higher you get the longer it is.

For myself I try to go to 3 classes a week if not injuried.

I'm no killer. I'm no extreme martial artist. I do it for myself at my own pace. I rushed early to get through the ranks but soon realized it meant nothing if I didn't perfect those skills. Its not just knowing what has to be done to pass the test it is a matter of making it a part of yourself so that you can easily recall and use those skills when needed.

Rank means nothing more then your progress for the instructor to know what level you are at. Time should be based on minimal amount of class time/hours and when the individual is ready and confident. Ranks are still nice and are goals but they are small goals in the larger picture. Black belt ... yes I want to be one ... but also understanding that the black belt means only that I'm a black belt in my organization and that it is only the first step in a long term goal.

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