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#183618 - 09/05/05 02:52 PM Re: AKK kata question [Re: MattJ]
kenposan Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 633
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Okay, so let me ask another question. If Shield and Mace is only practiced against a right punch, is there a technique against only a left punch? Now I realize most ppl are right handed and therefore you face a greater liklihood of facing a right punch, but if the technique is in Long 4, why would you not practice it with a partner?

Kenposan, the left-handed trouble maker.

And I again ask my other question- why no AKK videos online?? Now I more curious than ever to see what the forms look like!!! Come on Matt, grab a camera.
_________________________
The angry man will defeat himself in battle, as well as in life. -Samurai maxim

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#183619 - 09/05/05 03:51 PM Re: AKK kata question [Re: kenposan]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

Okay, so let me ask another question. If Shield and Mace is only practiced against a right punch, is there a technique against only a left punch? Now I realize most ppl are right handed and therefore you face a greater liklihood of facing a right punch, but if the technique is in Long 4, why would you not practice it with a partner?




Yes, there are techniques taught specifically for left hand punches, that are not practiced as right hand punches. Mr. Parker did not want to throw too much at the lower ranks by making them learn all the SD techniques (24 per belt level, remember) on both sides right away.

As the students progress to a higher level, they are expected to learn the moves on both sides (on their own, not as a part of the syllabus). That is what the kata is for - gives the students the idea that all the moves can be done on either side, thus doubling the technical repetoire.

RANT:

While I have found AKK to be an excellent system to gain theoretical understanding of MA, the over reliance on specifics in the system causes the students to become somewhat narrow minded. The over abundance of technique causes them to forget to study the underlying principles, which is what Mr. Parker actually intended.

Instead, the students become rote-memorization monsters lacking the ability to apply the techniques because they do not understand the principles behind them. IMVHO, of course.

END RANT.

Quote:

And I again ask my other question- why no AKK videos online?? Now I more curious than ever to see what the forms look like!!! Come on Matt, grab a camera.




Curses. I had some of the AKK forms on video, but threw them all out when I started JKD (which does not do kata).

I will look again, but I think they are gone.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#183620 - 09/05/05 08:08 PM Re: AKK kata question [Re: MattJ]
kenposan Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 633
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
okay, so I appear to be highjacking this thread, but it appears that not videos are to be found online so I think I am on safe ground.

Did you take up JKD for the reasons you noted in your rant? The reliance on rote instead of concepts?
_________________________
The angry man will defeat himself in battle, as well as in life. -Samurai maxim

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#183621 - 09/05/05 08:33 PM Re: AKK kata question [Re: kenposan]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
yes, you are hijacking the thread.
my question appears to have been answered: there are no mpegs available online and nobody currently practices AKK here. I'll assume it's not worth investigation enough to buy a video.
thanks anyway.

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#183622 - 09/06/05 06:06 PM Re: AKK kata question [Re: Kintama]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Ok, I'm wondering as well why there are no vids online of AKK forms. It would seem that with all the intentions the EP had, trying to keep the material "secret" goes against them.

Kin, for future reference, I have seen Long 4 several times, and can answer general questions about it, but not any of the main principle questions. I know up to Short three, and therefore I know a little something about Long three. Now, I seek a consensus, for further discussion, should we continue discussing what MattJ and I percieve to be the shortcomings of AKK?

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#183623 - 09/06/05 09:25 PM Re: AKK kata question [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
thats not what this is about...I'm not comparing AKK kata in order to cut it down.

ok, since this thread didn't go anywhere...I'll come clean as to why I asked this particular question of this particular kata.
several years ago (early 90's? I forget), I first saw the movie 'perfect weapon' ... 1 year after that, I happened to meet a guy who used to train with Speakman..I asked him the usual question: "which kata was that in the beginning of the movie?" he said Jeff told him 'Long 4' - didn't mean anything to me at the time. Recently, I watched the kata again. The difference now is that I know AKK's rudimentary history and style basis (book knowledge, not in practice). I couldn't believe there was so much Goju influence...I mean, take out the spins and rapid fire techniques and I could pick out a dozen Goju bunkai directly from kata.
Speakman, as people know, and as I now know, has more Goju background than AKK (at the time of the film at least).
I simply wanted to see if that kata was changed for the movie.
If I saw AKK's 'official' long 4, I'd be able to tell.

I'm not trying to discredit anything - this was just a trivial curiosity. sometimes trivial curiousities leed themselves to something of interest. I had no idea it would be this much trouble. and initially felt it wasn't worth the explaination I now mention.

from this thread, I do find it very parculiar that one of the most popular styles in the US (at least during the 80's/90's) hasn't got anyone linking vids of AKK kata. but yet was able to find Prof. Chow doing kata from 1960.

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#183624 - 09/06/05 09:34 PM Re: AKK kata question [Re: Kintama]
kenposan Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 633
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Quote:


ok, since this thread didn't go anywhere...I'll come clean as to why I asked this particular question of this particular kata.I simply wanted to see if that kata was changed for the movie.





I was told by an AKK instructor that the form in Perfect Weapon is not a specific form, but a combination of forms created for the movie.
_________________________
The angry man will defeat himself in battle, as well as in life. -Samurai maxim

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#183625 - 09/07/05 04:08 AM Re: AKK kata question [Re: Kintama]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Don't worry Kin, the art in and of itself is actually quite hard to discredit. Now, several of the teachers of it in this country are easily discredited.

My problem is that the "technical" side of things is taken too seriously, and alot of the myths surrounding it are willfully perpetuated by the instructors. AKK is overrun by mcdojos, and alot of the IKKA affiliated schools I've seen websites of are obvious examples of that.

The art is good, but it has strayed far from what Master Parker wanted it to be, and has developed alot of shortcomings in it.

BTW, at this point, I am searching for another style to study. There isn't any TOMA in this area, but I'm about to move, so I'll see what there is when I do.

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#183626 - 09/08/05 05:12 PM Re: AKK kata question [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Bushi,

Good luck on the move and on whatever MA you do pick up!

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#183627 - 09/08/05 11:51 PM Re: AKK kata question [Re: butterfly]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
update to bring this thread to conclusion:

I've seen a vid of 'long-4'.
wow...it's not called 'long' for nothing! it really is a loooong kata. about 2.5 minutes!

thank-you (you know who you are ) not sure if it's a secret since it was e-mailed to me without message, kinda like a midnight drop to the Washington Post during watergate. oh it did say: "The goods. -deepthroat" kidding. but seriously, I'm not sure what the deal is about no online vids of AKK. the kata is so long nobody would be able to learn it thru video anyway.

here's the deal...'perfect weapon' kata - its a mix of long-4 and Goju kata bits and pieces - so you were right - it's a made-for-movie kata.

looking for traces of Goju kata in long-4, found a couple sequences but nothing signature. so it's definitely not based on Goju, although like was mentioned, it could have some common roots....but absolutely an original. it's a bit softer than goju but more agressive than soft-fighting styles. definitely a kata for close-in fighting, with emphasis on quick hands and multiple less-committed attacks.

an interesting and cool kata. I have a new appreciation for AKK...who'd-a-thunk!

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