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#183608 - 09/04/05 01:27 PM AKK kata question
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
I'm interested to see what kata "long form #4" looks like...not to learn it (obviously) just to watch it. If not, what can you tell me about it's history, influences, principles/philosophies etc.

Much obliged,
-Ed

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#183609 - 09/04/05 08:40 PM Re: AKK kata question [Re: Kintama]
Kintama Offline
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Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
c'mon people (MattJ, Bushi_no_ki) I know AKK is out there, got anything on this kata? I've heard it has some Goju influence so I'm sincerely interested...

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#183610 - 09/04/05 09:05 PM Re: AKK kata question [Re: Kintama]
MattJ Offline
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The American Kenpo kata are not related in any way to most of the other traditional kata found in Japanese or Okinawan karate.

The form is one of the longest and most complex in the AKK system (Long 7 is the final form in the system). It basically teaches how to defend against attacks coming from all 8 of the horizontal attacking angles (front, back, left, right, and the 45's of each).

It consists of 39 sets of individual, specific self defense techniques (ie; set #1 is against a L/R punch combo, set #2 is against a R/L combo, etc). The techniques themselves (each being approx. 3-5 moves) for the most part are the exact same ones learned in class and practiced on a partner. So, there is not any "bunkai" in the OMA/JMA sense. You already know what the application is.

Many of the techniques are simply mirror images of each other. This is significant in AKK, as the SD versions taught are specifically to one side or the other ie; "Sheild and Mace" is always done against a Right straight punch - never a left. So the students must literally be able to do EVERY technique in the form on both sides.

The use of angles and mirror-imaging of the techniques in the form is designed to give the student a higher level of coordination and awareness of the need to be able to work their skills equally on both sides.

Unfortunately, my meager Google-fu could not find any video of the actual form. I can give you this link of my former instructor doing some of the techniques in the form (although he is doing them on a partner).

http://www.jfkenpo.com/html/videogallerywindows.html

If you can imagine those being done without the partner, and strung together mirror-image style, that is more or less what AKK forms are like.

Hope this helped.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#183611 - 09/04/05 09:07 PM Re: AKK kata question [Re: Kintama]
kenposan Offline
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Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 633
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
so here is a ponderance.. why can't I find any videos online of AKK forms? I have tons of karate ones I have found online but can't seem to find any AKK.
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The angry man will defeat himself in battle, as well as in life. -Samurai maxim

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#183612 - 09/04/05 10:22 PM Re: AKK kata question [Re: kenposan]
Kintama Offline
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Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
I found that out as well...now it's got me really curious.

Thank-you Matt, it did help. It's not impossible (actually it's probable) that some of the techniques in Goju kata can be found in AKK forms ...go back far enough in both of the histories (as you know) and you see some common roots and influences. I was curious if I could see any I recognize.
thanks again

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#183613 - 09/04/05 10:44 PM Re: AKK kata question [Re: MattJ]
kenposan Offline
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Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 633
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Quote:



Many of the techniques are simply mirror images of each other. This is significant in AKK, as the SD versions taught are specifically to one side or the other ie; "Sheild and Mace" is always done against a Right straight punch - never a left. So the students must literally be able to do EVERY technique in the form on both sides.





Maybe it's just late, but this confuses me. You stated that "shield and mace" is always used against a right straight punch, never a left, but then stated that every technique is performed to both sides. Isn't that contradictory? Help!
_________________________
The angry man will defeat himself in battle, as well as in life. -Samurai maxim

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#183614 - 09/05/05 02:39 AM Re: AKK kata question [Re: kenposan]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Why are all the video clips up-side-down?

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#183615 - 09/05/05 03:50 AM Re: AKK kata question [Re: hedkikr]
ButterflyPalm Offline
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Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia
Quote:

Why are all the video clips up-side-down?




There are up-side up for me
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#183616 - 09/05/05 10:00 AM Re: AKK kata question [Re: kenposan]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by Kenposan -

Quote:

Maybe it's just late, but this confuses me. You stated that "shield and mace" is always used against a right straight punch, never a left, but then stated that every technique is performed to both sides. Isn't that contradictory? Help!




It is a bit confusing. The SD versions of the techniques are only taught to one side or the other. When practicing them on a partner, say "Shield and Mace", the attack is only ever done as a right straight punch.

In Long form 4, however, you have to do it to BOTH sides ie; against the normal right punch, then against a left. So you perform a mirror image of the original technique. But you do not learn the mirror images as part of the SD syllabus.

Kintama -

Ok, I think I misunderstood you. There may be some Goju influence in the SD techniques we used in AKK, and by extension, in the kata. AKK certainly uses a fair amount of circular technique in the higher level techniques, which is similar to what I understand is used in Goju.

From what I have seen, the kata appear to be very different overall, though.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#183617 - 09/05/05 12:53 PM Re: AKK kata question [Re: MattJ]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
here's what I found so far...no video though. actually, I couldn't find any video, even competition kata for AKK.

http://kenpousa.com/long4.htm
http://members.aol.com/wjm4kenpo/wjm305.htm

something else I found by accident...Prof. Chow performing kata from 1960.
http://www.kajukenboinfo.com/kaju_chow_kata_320.wvx
as an aside to this thread, anyone know the name of the kata?

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