FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 37 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
LeroyCFischer, JadeKing, Beefcake, WesJones, simonajones111
22933 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
futsaowingchun 2
charlie 2
William_Bent 1
simonajones111 1
GojuRyuboy13 1
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
New Topics
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
I gained a lot of month in the last few months
by simonajones111
11/19/14 04:54 AM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
MA style video library
by
03/22/06 03:18 PM
Recent Posts
unrecognized kata
by William_Bent
11/19/14 07:05 PM
I gained a lot of month in the last few months
by simonajones111
11/19/14 04:54 AM
Siu Lin Tao-3rd section applications
by futsaowingchun
11/13/14 06:48 PM
Screen fighting course UK December 2014
by charlie
11/11/14 04:09 PM
MA style video library
by charlie
11/11/14 04:05 PM
Siu Lin Tao-1st section Pak Sao explanations
by futsaowingchun
11/09/14 10:30 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/29/14 10:01 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
10/29/14 08:28 AM
Forum Stats
22933 Members
36 Forums
35589 Topics
432521 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 4 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >
Topic Options
#183085 - 09/05/05 08:57 PM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: ai-uchi]
heikeshogun Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 23
I'm really on the other side as most of you are. I'm a high green belt and in my opinion, it really depends on the student, I have a purple belt friend Kim who can beat the living daylights out of most of the black belts in our school, I think you really need to judge the individual student, just because they're an orange belt doesn't mean they can't spar, it takes a bit of your time and patience to judge how fast you should kick or how advanced your techniques should be, in my opinion.

In my rather limited experience, sparring students that are alot better than you teaches you how to spar better, by taking it from the person who beat you on how to spar, and on what tchniques will ave you better off. I don't believe in cruelt, but I do believe in improving your fellow students, even if it means going a little hard on them, I really think it's a personal decision.

As a senpai in my school, I would say that the students who do best are the ones that work with the tougher people, I really think a good analogy would be walking on glass, in truth, it hurts when you're doing it, but when you've finished, your feet are all the stronger and your mind is all the more discipline, I don't pretend to know much, but that's just my opinion.
_________________________
"Better to be a tiger for a day than a sheep for a lifetime." ~ Chinese Proverb

Top
#183086 - 09/06/05 02:33 PM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: je8ki9]
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Hi Gavins Dad!

I had a couple of thoughts on the points you raised.

Fundamentally I agree with you but have difficulty with your approach to them.

As an instructor, if you spar with your students an instill fear in them due to how you act they will not learn as effectively as they might. If when faults occur you apply an immediate physical response that causes pain for the student, the only thing he will learn is that it hurts when you hit him. He will be too scared to try different things to find out what works for him.

If he is scared when facing you you have failed as his instructor. An instructor is to teach and fear of you will merely inhibit this.

As such I believe your teaching methodology needs refining.
_________________________
John L

Top
#183087 - 09/06/05 05:58 PM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: JohnL]
jamesd Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 145
Loc: Essex,England
Hi Everyone,

I've been reading some of the post's and i can only comment from what i've gained by my own personal experience, for me fear in the dojo is a good thing, we all experience fear at some point in our lives and by confronting this fear head on, we can learn to overcome it and become stronger people, when i first started my training with John (Gavin's Dad) i must admit i was scared! I was only 17 and i was entering a dojo that was full of big strong men that were intimidating (and smelly!) when we sparred they instilled fear in me just by their physical presence alone, but with the guidance of my Instructor (John King) he taught me that it was normal to feel this way and i was helped to overcome this barrier, without a certain aspect of fear being in the dojo how can you teach someone to confront and conquer it, also how can you prepare yourself for a real situation if you've never been exposed to fear and how to deal with it!

So i'm sorry JohnL but i have to disagree with you regarding my Instructors teaching methodology needing refinement, Kind regards,

James
_________________________
www.hardfasthandway.com

Top
#183088 - 09/06/05 11:53 PM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: jamesd]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Depends on the type of fear. I didn't ever fear that my instructor would hurt me,but I had respect for his abilities,which did make me a little gun shy. You shouldn't have to be afraid of your teacher. Who would you rather be like? Myagi in the karate kid or the Cobra Kai sensei?
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

Top
#183089 - 09/07/05 03:47 AM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: SANCHIN31]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
I have to agree with others John, people have a fear of experienced martial artists anyway.

Having them confront their fears of better skilled opponents is the best way to resolve them.

When I spar, I always knew it was going to hurt, only a little, since my goal was to train as a better fighter, every hit made on me was a wake up call that I couldn't simply acknowledge with a nod of the head in self defense. If I was assaulted, they were going to be real, hard, often and repeated. Some of the fear is like that of losing, or not doing your best. Or not having the abilities in the "real" world.

If you can find me person off the street who has no previous martial arts experience and has no fear in sparring more skilled and experienced opponents, I'd say you've found me a man who fears too little.

Top
#183090 - 09/07/05 06:06 AM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: jamesd]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Brilliant post mate! You summed up everything I would like to have said!

I think what this debate has highlighted is the reasons why people train. I think Kintama summed it up very well with his comments on the "-do" part of the art. I have the distinct pleasure of training with some like minded MA's who are dedicated to learning the true meaning behind the fighting arts. Most of these guys don't come to become better people, they come because they have a desire to learn to defend themselves in an environmet with ever increasing levels of violence.

As I have already stated, most MA's like to think they are learning MA's to defend themselves, but their training doesn't teach them the stark realities of combat. Realities such as the adrenaline response and the utter terror that you feel. This terror is paralyzing for most, and unless you are accustomed for it, every technique, theory and post on the internet is going to me absolute nothing to you. So while I believe that you don't need to handle fear to practice MA's forms, for them to function in the real world, the student MUST be forced to confront their fears. A loving and caring instructor can do this far more safely than a drunk thug on the street!

John, my Dad has been teaching for atleast 20 years. In this time I know of atleast 7 BB's who have gone on to have long Doorwork careers, he also has trained many other grades who have gone onto Doorwork too. In 20 years, not one of his students has been seriously injured nor have any been convicted of violence. He doesn't produce mindless thugs (well maybe me! ), just street effective MA's. I know both myself and James are biased, but I really don't think that he needs to alter his approach one inch (in fact I think it could actually be made harder!)!

But, like I said previously, there are many reasons to practice the arts, and not everybody wants what we want, which is cool by us!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#183091 - 09/08/05 11:55 AM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: Gavin]
Galen Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/04
Posts: 381
Quote:

John, my Dad has been teaching for atleast 20 years. In this time I know of atleast 7 BB's who have gone on to have long Doorwork careers, he also has trained many other grades who have gone onto Doorwork too. In 20 years, not one of his students has been seriously injured nor have any been convicted of violence.




No offense Gavin, but is this really the criteria that we want to use to judge successful teaching methods??

Its easy for instructors to look at their successes (however we all may define success) and say that we are good instructors.

I personally think that our failures are every bit as telling with regards to how good an instructor is.

I have been teaching for just over 20 years as well. I have had NONE of my students go to work as bouncers (a fact of which I am very pround, by the way). Does this mean I am a less successful instructor?

I do see your point in that these bouncers are of a skill level that they are not inujred, and have enough control to not seriously injure others.

Then again, you and I historically have a parting of the ways on reasons for taining anyway...

Galen
_________________________
Nothing imperfect is the measure of anything!

Top
#183092 - 09/08/05 12:12 PM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: je8ki9]
Galen Offline
Member

Registered: 11/07/04
Posts: 381
Quote:

if i want to become a nicer person i can go to church if i want to get more flexible theres yoga ,fitter ,aerobics ect ect.SO if i want really want to learn to defend my self it has to be a hard street wise system of MAs.




Granted, however this statement presupposes that learning to defend yourself is the only reason to take a martial art. I think that there are higher purposes. As I have stated before, I consider defending myself as a by-product of training, not the reason for it. Dont get me wrong - there are as many reasons for training as there are people who train. I have to take issue when I see someone invalidating the other reasons for training besides street-wise self defense.

Quote:

question i would ask whats wrong with being afraid? people treat it as something wrong. it helps keep you alive




Agreed, however, that fear should not come from your instructor!! An instructor who teaches in such a way as to make his students afraid is a bully, plain and simple. Now respect - that is another thing altogether. And fear has NO place in respect. They are mutually exclusive. If your students are afraid of you, then they are not learning from you as effectively as they could be.

Quote:

what doesnt kill you makes you stronger




ah, the great justification for extreme teaching methods. Besides that, its a load of crap. There are PLENTY of things out there that wont kill you, but I promise they wont make you any stronger. Take this posture with a shy, inexperienced beginner and I promise you that you will do more harm than good.

Quote:

I believe that the dojo is the anvil the teacher the hammer the student the work ongoing!and without a HEALTHY dose of fear, discomfort,uneasiness you cant get the job done john king




Here you and I part ways completely. In my estimation, a matrial arts instructor is nothing more than a sign post on a very long road. It is the intructors job to point; to guide; to suggest. Period. 99 percent of the learning a student does in their martial arts career is self taught. They get the ideas; the general direction from their instructors. The rest they do on their own.

Any instructor who looks at their student and says "I am responsible for that students ability" is kidding themselves. Students are NOT slabs of rock, to be formed and chiseled into an ideal that the instructor has. Students are living, breathing people, who deserve ALL the credit for their achievements. Instructors who look at students as their own personal painting canvas are doing their students a huge disservice, not to mention inflating their own egos at the expense of their students well being.

Please understand, I am not speaking to anyone person in particular here. My post sorta went on a bit of a tangent.

No personal offense intended.

Galen


Edited by Galen (09/08/05 12:23 PM)
_________________________
Nothing imperfect is the measure of anything!

Top
#183093 - 09/08/05 12:44 PM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: Galen]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by Galen -

Quote:

99 percent of the learning a student does in their martial arts career is self taught. They get the ideas; the general direction from their instructors. The rest they do on their own.




BEST. POST. EVER.

The people with the best understanding of anything, really, are the ones that have done their own research and practice. Figuring something out for yourself is much more meaningful than having someone show you, for the most part.

I hope everyone here - especially the beginners - pays very close attention to this statement. Truer words have not been spoken here.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#183094 - 09/08/05 12:55 PM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: Galen]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Hi Galen,

I wasn't going to post anymore on this topic, but as it's you and as we've got history I've just gotta!

Quote:

I have been teaching for just over 20 years as well. I have had NONE of my students go to work as bouncers (a fact of which I am very pround, by the way). Does this mean I am a less successful instructor?





Haven't really got much more to say on this subject, just wanted to assure you that I don't consider you to be any less of an instructor, but our successes can only be judged by the goals that we set.

Our goal is to produce competent street effective MA's, we teach a fighting art not philosophy. Students come to us specifically to learn to defend themselves, we don't get those looking for enlightement through our door. There are other schools we'd rather send that business too. To be honest, we get alot more return trade. People come to us, think "sod that for a game of soldiers" and go down the road. Once they get a bit further down the road, they start thinking, "If I actually done this on the street, I have my a$$ handed to me"....then they come back.

It's horses for courses mate, pure and simple. If you want to really learn to defend yourself, there's no other way of doing it. Its got to be hard, pressure testing is essential, and confrontation of fear sits right up there next to pressure testing.

We do not claim to be monks nor do we want to. I'm very heavily into my philosophy (in fact I'm probably more passionate about that than I am about MA's), and although it influences my MA's its not exclusive to it. I can see how those who want to incorparate it into their art can do so, and fully respect them for it. Just not for me, I want my fighting art to be exactly that, a fighting art. Others don't want that, and fair play to them!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
Page 4 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki, Ronin1966 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga