FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 49 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
ksusanc, kellypnik123, leyinn, Ron_Cooley, businns
22902 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 12
cxt 7
trevek 6
JKogas 5
TaekwonDoFan 2
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/11/14 03:36 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
10 San Sik drills-Wing Chun's foundation
by futsaowingchun
06/30/14 11:20 AM
"Ip Man" and "Ip Man 2" the movies.
by TaekwonDoFan
06/30/14 11:02 AM
Iaido movements speed
by TooNice
04/14/14 01:47 PM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
12/30/13 08:32 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Prizewriter
04/16/12 02:48 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
04/12/12 11:16 AM
Recent Posts
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by cxt
Today at 11:35 AM
centerline concepts
by Dobbersky
07/18/14 06:14 AM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/14/14 04:50 PM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:38 AM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:35 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
07/09/14 06:13 AM
Throwing
by JKogas
07/03/14 07:40 PM
10 San Sik drills-Wing Chun's foundation
by futsaowingchun
06/30/14 11:20 AM
"Ip Man" and "Ip Man 2" the movies.
by TaekwonDoFan
06/30/14 11:02 AM
Forget all that health stuff
by TaekwonDoFan
06/29/14 03:18 AM
Forum Stats
22902 Members
36 Forums
35563 Topics
432450 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 3 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >
Topic Options
#183075 - 09/03/05 12:55 AM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: Mark Hill]
Mark Hill Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 1068
Loc: Australia
May I add although it doesn't hurt, a well timed, well placed and non or semi contact gyaku zuki can still scare the living daylights out of you.

When they don't hurt you and you are just a kid, even getting points scored all over you can be a little intimidating, and these days a reality check of your abilities!

Top
#183076 - 09/03/05 03:50 AM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: ai-uchi]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

sir i never questioned anybody's ability in my post




I did take this as being you bringing my students skill into question, sorry for the misunderstanding!

When beatings are dished out just because they've been caught by a lower grade, this is purely and simply a apease their own ego's. We have very few (touch wood!) injuries in class. Ofourse there is always going to be the odd black eye and such, so that really is a sign of the skill of the senior grades.

I don't think having a little fear of your instructor and senior grades is an entirely bad thing. IMHO, it is this fear that drives people forward. Geoff Thompson wrote an excellent book called "Fear: The friend of exceptional people". Conquering your fears and limitations is key to be able to learn to defend yourself effectively, and without being confronted by your fears how to you stand a chance of beating them?

The only time most MA's are forced to confront their fear is on the street in actual combat, then it is too late. It is far better to have the fears ironed out in the caring enviroment of the Dojo.

It times gone by, students spent a life time being beaten with sticks, made to suffer hours of endless reps and be pushed beyond what they ever dreamed possible. Many give up, but the rare few who stick through the blast furnence period look back and see the wisdom of the approach. The devotion, respect, and love these types have for their instructors is unquestionable. This is how I see my relationship with my seniors (although they haven't beaten me with sticks!).

I have done a lot of research into Adrenaline conditioning, and have trained and coached people through it. Fear is a very healthy part of this training people. The fear, intensity and power need to be delivered in a slow fashion, but it still needs to be there. Again, IMVHO, a vast majority of MA's DO NOT prepare realistically for real world combat.

As I said, this is not the way for everyone, some people want the excercise, some want to enter into competitions, some just simple want to feel that they can defend themselves, but whichever of these reasons you don't need to be pushed to the limits. For me, as a Doorman, my life can depend upon my training. I have to be able to deal with the fear, the agression, and intensity of real world attacks, and someone trying to get ippon on me then pulling off will not help one bit on the street!

I hope this didn't come across as offensive to those who don't train for the same reasons I do, I do accept that there are more reasons to train.
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#183077 - 09/03/05 05:41 AM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: Gavin]
ai-uchi Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 200
Loc: harlow essex
Quote:



It times gone by, students spent a life time being beaten with sticks, made to suffer hours of endless reps and be pushed beyond what they ever dreamed possible. Many give up, but the rare few who stick through the blast furnence period look back and see the wisdom of the approach. The devotion, respect, and love these types have for their instructors is unquestionable.




Gavin
i do not criticis your approach but what about those timid souls who are put off by this approach, but who have the potential to make excellent instructors through their communication skills and might be better than the rogh and ready instructors who excel in the physicality of the sport.

Now i am all for hard training and have received and given ough times from other students, but they were all of equal standing to myself i.e. they all fought for northern ireland. When club sparring i always tried something new which i knew i had not perfected i.e throwing a left leg reverse roundhouse which gave lower grades an opportunity to surprise me by countering.
i take pride that i never injured a lower grade ever when i sparred full time (too old now - too many injuries).

just to confirm gavinit was never meant to be an attack on you, your assoc. or your instuctors.
_________________________
streakers - your end is in sight

Top
#183078 - 09/03/05 06:03 AM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: JohnL]
KiDoHae Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 999
I agree with John on this one.

Virtually all of my sparring is done with lower belts. Some of them are quite good, others need some work, which is the point of sparring. I am very clear about what it is I would like them to try to do to me and what I will proably do to them. As the senior I am the one who is responsible for BOTH of us. This is all based on respect , not fear.

Top
#183079 - 09/03/05 09:00 AM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: ai-uchi]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
I think the difference of opinions may be due to the fact that people teach different types of 'karate'.

some for fun, some for sport and some for self defense. this would of course mean that different 'attitudes' and methods are needed to train for the aims of the dojo.

Personally I dont train for sport (done that) so im happy being pushed a little, I train because I love training and aim to do karate in the classical manner.

As I said I was fearful of my Sempai and it did me no harm at all, in fact it pushed me to a new level within my karate at the time. would i teach in this manner now, proberly not but I dont train for the same reasons I used to anymore - gettin golder does strange things to ones karate!
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

Top
#183080 - 09/03/05 09:19 AM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: ai-uchi]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
No offence was intended, so there's none to be taken.

The timid students are a problem for us, and to be honest we're not really the sort of club for timid people. Its a very raw and honest class, that takes the stark realities of combat very seriously. Alot of our students are doorman, so this an essential approach.

Ofcourse a new guy isn't put straight into the meat grinder from day dot, but gradually eased in them in to it. But, if you're truely practicing a fighting system, then eventually some reality has to be introduced. As I said, the dojo is the place for this reality to be learnt, not the street.

Competing at the level you did, I'm sure this isn't new news to you. Alot of Karateka though are walking around in a state of ignorant bliss believing that they're training is going to be of use on the streets, when truth be told, most couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bags. I have no problems with those that want to practice the art for other reasons other than fighting, I do have problems with people telling me that they teach self defence and also tell me that I should use kid gloves when sparring with my lower grades. These inviduals are usually Armchair Hobby Combatants, who the last altercation they had was in the lunch line at school.

EDIT - ai-uchi, I'm not implying that your an Armchair Hobby Combantant. Being 6 times NI champion means means that you ain't been sitting in your armchair!!!!

An analogy is that you can't expect to be ready to play in the NFL if you've only ever played touch football! (Hows that analogy for a Brit??? )

Horses for courses, and all that!


Edited by Gavin (09/03/05 09:52 AM)
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#183081 - 09/04/05 08:18 AM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: KiDoHae]
je8ki9 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/04/05
Posts: 32
Loc: UK
HI everybody gavins dad here. its interesting how easily it is to tell where a persons focus is pointed in their training by the range of comments.there are many attributes that come with MA but where does the buck stop.for me it has to work! if i want to become a nicer person i can go to church if i want to get more flexible theres yoga ,fitter ,aerobics ect ect.SO if i want really want to learn to defend my self it has to be a hard street wise system of MAs. question i would ask whats wrong with being afraid? people treat it as something wrong. it helps keep you alive what doesnt kill you makes you stronger:f nietzche:I believe that the dojo is the anvil the teacher the hammer the student the work ongoing!and without a HEALTHY dose of fear, discomfort,uneasiness you cant get the job done john king
_________________________
John King www.gosokempo.com

Top
#183082 - 09/04/05 08:57 AM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: je8ki9]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Now you all why I am the way I am? My Dad thinks his a hammer! What chance did I have????

Typings getting better father!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

Top
#183083 - 09/04/05 12:07 PM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: je8ki9]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
I applaud those who stand by their methods of training and admire the ones who adjust it when something else works better for them. I'm not there yet, I'm still figuring out the things that have worked for ones before.

hard/soft light/heavy/no contact. whatever. if it feels right, then do it baby! others will do whats best for themselves.

BUT
I firmly believe that if a student is getting hurt alot during training then that person isn't being trained or training effectively.

having said that,
respect out of fear doesn't work.
respect with a bit of fear of the unknown is healthy.

I think I'm hearing us agree to the same things, but just expressed differently...

Top
#183084 - 09/04/05 02:05 PM Re: correct attitude for senior grades [Re: Kintama]
je8ki9 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/04/05
Posts: 32
Loc: UK
Never judge a man by how strong he is but by how he uses that strength!!!! in todays society you couldnt train a student the way they did 30or50years ago students now would vote with their feet!and go elsewhere and the correct attitude starts at the top and filters down.a dojo is a benign and loving dictatorship but that doesnt give instructors or senior grades the right to beat the crap out of anybody but there is awealth of difference between working someone and beating them !!!James passed his third dan earlier on this year and it was eighteen months of hard pressurised blood sweat and tears and that was me!!but at the end of it was an individual who was more than when he started did he always like it? idoubt it but can he appreciate it i think so. the bruises are long gone but experience is for life . anyway enough said on this subject by me thanks
_________________________
John King www.gosokempo.com

Top
Page 3 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >


Moderator:  Ames, Cord, MattJ, Reiki, Ronin1966 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga