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#182858 - 09/01/05 07:05 AM Bo Staff - home learning
Dr Zoidberg Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Oxford, UK
Hi, I have been studying the Nunchaku through a home-learning course on DVD, where you can earn rank by filming yourself performing the sylabus for each grade. I'm enjoying it a lot and progressing well (watch out Bruce!) Does anyone know of a similar home-learning course for Bo Staff? I've touched on it a little in my martial arts class but we don't do weapons training regularly
_________________________
An apple a day keeps the Doctor away!!

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#182859 - 09/01/05 10:11 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: Dr Zoidberg]
Meanstreak Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 236
Loc: Australia
Dr Z

The general consensus is that you cant learn at home - even off a DVD. You dont have feedback about how you are doing, and therefore will have no idea if you are doing it right or wrong. Also by yourself you cant get an idea of the actual use of a weapon in a combative situation.

All you are doing is learning how to twirl (sorry mate) look through the old posts and you'll see the same thing.

As for earning rank by correspondence - ive never thought of this to be productive, theres the points i made on feedback earlier, and there is also the point that whatever "qualification" you may earn is likely to be worth nothing. Correspondence martial arts is generally a scam.
_________________________
Beware my flying no hands cartwheel kick of doom

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#182860 - 09/02/05 03:04 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: Meanstreak]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
I'm not going to tell you that you can't learn anything from videos, because that would be a lie.

But you should only practice what you see from video if you can occasionally get your technique checked out by an instructor proficient in the art.

Try www.budovideos.com

Don't get a video for an art different than the one you are studying, otherwise you'll never improve (Unless you plan on switching the art you practice).

Remember the flashier it looks the more useless it is. Keep that in mind.

One last thing, please do NOT call it a bo staff. Call it a BO, or a STAFF, but not bo staff. It's incorrect. Thank you.

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#182861 - 09/02/05 05:30 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: Dr Zoidberg]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
You definitely want to learn weapons techniques with a good instructor watching you.

It is so easy to make small and significant errors which turn into BIG major errors and are very hard to correct.

Don't try this at home folks, it just doesn't work as well as the real thing...

Nothing can replace having proper instruction. I've watched some of my students over the past few years go off on their own and create some interesting "chinese whispers" instead of the correct techniques, these have been very hard to unlearn once they've learnt them incorrectly!

And yes the more flashy it is, usually the less use it is, and please do call it a bo or a staff, not a bo staff.
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

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#182862 - 10/01/05 10:19 AM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: Reiki]
DragonTiger Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 27
Loc: New York
If I mimic the technique on the DVD exactly, then I think I can learn the basic blocks and strikes. Especially if it's a good DVD that points out key components like keeping wrists bent this way, etc. If that's all that I wanted to learn, then mission accomplished. However, I do think that you would need to have had good martial arts training at some point in your life for at least a few years. True, self training is not alive, but neither is kata. I am a proponent of Kata. It's not the same as sparring but it is instructive. However, Kata training isn't really alive. If you've trained in Martial Arts for many years and you've done tons of drills on blocking, etc. Then you've developed your hand eye coordination and response skills. You're never going to encounter every possible kick or punch or situation in your training. Does that mean that your training is meaningless or you won't be able to block a hook if all you're ever done is block crosses. No it doesn't. I'd love to train with a master in person and learn to master a weapon. However, I just don't have the time/resources for that. At this point, I'm content with learning the basics from a DVD.

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#182863 - 10/01/05 12:31 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: DragonTiger]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
The problem is you're most likely to miss the really important stuff such as energy transfer, proper rotation of this hips, synchronization of the feet with hand / spine movement, etc.. If you can get to an instructor every once in a while it's a good idea but if you have no basis in the system whatsoever it's best just to do something else until you can meet with an instructor and spend some quality time with them. Especially with the bou where bad habits are really hard to fix after a while, as the training tends to be extremely repetitive, this stuff sticks in your memory and if you did it wrong the first 1000 times it's gonna take forever to do it correctly the next 1000 times.

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#182864 - 10/01/05 03:44 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: Reiki]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Quote:

You definitely want to learn weapons techniques with a good instructor watching you.

It is so easy to make small and significant errors which turn into BIG major errors and are very hard to correct.

Don't try this at home folks, it just doesn't work as well as the real thing...

Nothing can replace having proper instruction. I've watched some of my students over the past few years go off on their own and create some interesting "chinese whispers" instead of the correct techniques, these have been very hard to unlearn once they've learnt them incorrectly!

And yes the more flashy it is, usually the less use it is, and please do call it a bo or a staff, not a bo staff.

AND

The problem is you're most likely to miss the really important stuff such as energy transfer, proper rotation of this hips, synchronization of the feet with hand / spine movement, etc.. If you can get to an instructor every once in a while it's a good idea but if you have no basis in the system whatsoever it's best just to do something else until you can meet with an instructor and spend some quality time with them. Especially with the bou where bad habits are really hard to fix after a while, as the training tends to be extremely repetitive, this stuff sticks in your memory and if you did it wrong the first 1000 times it's gonna take forever to do it correctly the next 1000 times.




Learning from a DVD or video is fine if you want to learn the general pattern of a kata, however to correctly learn the technique you need to work with an instructor who can watch and guide you every step of the way while you are learning the techniques and how to apply them.

It is incredibly hard to *unlearn* incorrect technique once you've "mastered" it.

I don't care how well you think you've learnt it from a DVD, it still isn't giving you the correct feedback that the instructor will.

Personally I prefer to learn it *correctly* once and not have to unlearn stuff that is wrong.
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

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#182865 - 10/02/05 08:58 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: DragonTiger]
Chatan1979 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 338
Loc: Mahomet , Illinois
Actually kata can be very much "alive " as you put it. But thats not something that you would learn from a DVD. You need an instructor to take you through the diferent levels of kata otherwise you are doing nothing but imitating which ,yes, if all you want is to learn how to do is imitate a kata from a video is fine. But when it comes to strategies, tactics, applacations, and all the other stuff that is contained in a kata , you will not learn any of that from a DVD.
_________________________
There is always someone who knows more, and noone who knows it all....

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#182866 - 10/03/05 09:14 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: Dr Zoidberg]
gojumaster Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 46
The more I think about it, the more I think maybe I should support people learning martial arts from videos...I may have to face one of those people in the street one day...



Quote:

Hi, I have been studying the Nunchaku through a home-learning course on DVD, where you can earn rank by filming yourself performing the sylabus for each grade. I'm enjoying it a lot and progressing well (watch out Bruce!) Does anyone know of a similar home-learning course for Bo Staff? I've touched on it a little in my martial arts class but we don't do weapons training regularly


_________________________
Best Regards, Russ Smith http://www.Goju-Ryu.info/

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#182867 - 10/07/05 11:15 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: gojumaster]
UmYang Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 66
i learned kali sticks bo and numchucks by video. but i know that video is only basically a beginners guide despite if they say youll be like bruce lee. so i had my master show me some stuff. although i am better than i thought i was i am still a beginner. but from what he showed me, videos are the best substitute for not being able to take a class. books and people who "taught them selves" have no clue what their doing.

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#182868 - 10/08/05 03:09 AM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: UmYang]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Advice from a self-proclaimed master beginner who will start his own style even though it's practically impossible (by his own estimation).

Unless you want to play or pretend (ala the "Star Wars Kid" video), you'll need to get your knuckles rapped a few dozen times & then come back for more.

owari

-------
good advice, but do pull your head in and don't needle the kid.

I MUST come up with a term for "home beginners with weapons".


Edited by Reiki (10/12/05 07:50 PM)

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#182869 - 10/11/05 10:30 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: hedkikr]
UmYang Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 66
my knuckles and base of my palm, right before the wrist, are covered in scrapes and junk right now from my numchuks. and i am not a self proclaimed master. im not even high white belt yet. your sarcasm is more of a direct insult : /

-------
It's an insult only if you let it be one. You are after all, a person who is not training properly in a dojo, so you have no rank and no authority.

Since you are very new here I will let you off just this once but DON'T keep needling people.


Edited by Reiki (10/12/05 07:48 PM)

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#182870 - 10/13/05 12:08 AM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: UmYang]
imcrazy Offline
cereal killer

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 492
Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
UmYang what part of "home learning is not effective" are you having trouble understanding? This has got to be at least the second or third thread you've started on this subject. Home learning is not a good idea period. Instruction from a qualified instructor is a must. I don't know why you keep posting in hopes of getting a different answer, cause it will always be the same.

I suggest you lurk a while, maybe you'll finally understand the importance of what many of these other experienced martial artists have to say.
_________________________
The greatest learning and understanding is found in hardship.

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#182871 - 10/13/05 11:39 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: imcrazy]
UmYang Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 66
i showed my master what i know and he said that i was very good. well the num chucks anyway. he said my passing is very well and i teachings me forms. and as of the last couple of days i decided to just forget everything i learned in the learn from home stuff. i konw it isnt effective, i just hate to not be able to find anyone who can teach it to me lol

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#182872 - 10/14/05 01:32 AM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: UmYang]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
You will need to learn to master the art of spelling of the word nunchaku too.

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#182873 - 10/14/05 06:39 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: paradoxbox]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Thank you!


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#182874 - 10/14/05 07:44 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: UmYang]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:

i showed my master what i know and he said that i was very good. well the num chucks anyway. he said my passing is very well and i teachings me forms. and as of the last couple of days i decided to just forget everything i learned in the learn from home stuff. i konw it isnt effective, i just hate to not be able to find anyone who can teach it to me lol




Your "master" knows the nunchuka? If not he may not know what he's looking at. "Cool! Flippy twirly things!" "Varry good umyangsan!"
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#182875 - 10/16/05 04:16 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: UmYang]
PTDragonofSteel Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 15
I really think it depends on the person. Some people learn differently from others. But I do think that the "home learner's" skills should be assessed at some point by a professional.

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#182876 - 10/30/05 12:27 AM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: UmYang]
Denouncer Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/27/05
Posts: 6
Quote:

i learned kali sticks bo and numchucks by video. but i know that video is only basically a beginners guide despite if they say youll be like bruce lee. so i had my master show me some stuff. although i am better than i thought i was i am still a beginner. but from what he showed me, videos are the best substitute for not being able to take a class. books and people who "taught them selves" have no clue what their doing.




Thats great! and you still call them nuMchucks??? ask for a refund.
_________________________
Interested in learning: JKD Muay Thai Jiujitsu

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#182877 - 11/25/05 06:52 AM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: Denouncer]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
To learn bo applications (or staff applications ) find an INSTRUCTOR.
It is O.K. to rumble a bit from what you learned in CLASS with your bo at home.
But just QUIT when you think you are DOING WRONG. So you don't increase risk of creating BAD HABITS
Then ask your INSTRUCTOR when you get to CLASS again.

I hope this is rather clear to those DIY MA-ists.
_________________________
Ives

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#182878 - 01/03/06 07:15 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: Dr Zoidberg]
interesting Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 1
if someone takes the time to study how to weild a weapon without an "instructor", just because they havn't adopted pre-established set of techniques, who is to say if they are wrong or not?Just a different way of using it.

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#182879 - 01/03/06 07:51 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: Dr Zoidberg]
Diga Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 209
Loc: Hoodsport, Washington
Here we go....I am probably going to get a lot of folks here upset with me but you might apreciate some of what I have to say.
First - I didn't get much info on what you know about Martial arts.
If you have some years of experience with a style then you should know some of the basics of power and form.
Hopefully you have had some instruction with the Bo or whatever weapon you are working with. I don't know how much that video explains.

Myself.....I did learn a few forms with the Bo, Jo and wooden sword in class, BUT we only worked on it for a total of about 20 hours in the 5 years with that instructor.
From there ( and I am the type of person that never forgets the basics ) I worked at home.
I taught what I knew to a friend that came over 2 times a week and we would spend 3 hours at a time with nothing but weapons. We worked out togather for 20 some years and there were times when we would dominate whole years to weapons.
I also worked the weapons against trees, heavy bag, rebound bags and moveing objects.
Turns out that when I worked with otherr opponents I was untouchable. My best techniques are with these tools.

When tested in classes after some years of this I wound up teaching new students when the class was big enough for the Sensai to break it into groups, Or I did demos. I am very proud of my accomplishments.

Note - this took thousands of hours and several broken weapons plus knocks to my own head and fingers but I did it mostly on my own.
These days I am walking with a cane due to needing hip replacement. So I am converting my techniques to the cane. I build all of my own tools and the cane is made of laminated iron wood. It is heavy and strong enough to break any of my bos or jos and a good upper body workout.

So - My take is - If you are truely dedicated anything is possable BUT do seek instruction. Sometimes I would get one tidbit from an instructor and I would work that small addition for months before going on to something new.

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#182880 - 01/04/06 12:19 AM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: interesting]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
lesson one: 'Bo staff' is a redundant term. it's like saying 'katana sword'.

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#182881 - 01/04/06 01:04 AM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: Ed_Morris]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
Your bo staff will never beat my nunchaku bridle. Or was that nunchaku rice flail? Dangit, I keep forgetting.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#182882 - 01/04/06 01:34 AM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: Ed_Morris]
Diga Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 209
Loc: Hoodsport, Washington
Oooh Maaan !
I hope our wording doesn't count for much.

Sometimes me walking on my tongue is all that happens when I am trying to explain something.

Lets not be so picky and stick to the - Bo staff stick thingie - topic Pleeease.

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#182883 - 01/04/06 11:54 AM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: interesting]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
Interesting

Because there are proper ways to use weapons and wrong ways to use weapons.

Some are constructed around methods and techniques that have been used in actual combat vs people trying very hard to kill the user.

Tested over many years by many people all over the world.

And some methods are the simply "invented" out of thin air.

So if I have to pick between a classical art with a proven history of success in fighting with weapons--kali, escrima, koryu arts---pick your poisen.
Or something somebody kinda just "invented"
I'm going with the former.

Its "possible" that someone has hit upon a totally new and inovative method--"possible" but not bloody likly.


Edited by cxt (01/04/06 12:01 PM)

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#182884 - 01/04/06 12:08 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: cxt]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
But quite likely to be bloody.

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#182885 - 01/04/06 12:25 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: cxt]
Diga Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 209
Loc: Hoodsport, Washington
As CXT said "There are proper ways to use weapons and wrong ways"
Again - My take on this is - It is important to learn whatever one can from an experienced instructor BUT in some cases ( atleast what I have seen ) there is actually little or no hard contact. Most of what was taught was open air and insights into the meaning of the moves. Also ( in Aikido ) there was the internal and spacial instruction that manouvering the Jo or manouvering your body around the Jo which needed to be realised before much improvement would come from your practice.
That statement most likely did not make sense to most people unless they have incorperated it into their art. If anyone wants more explination I would be glad to expand on the topic BUT my point is comming in the next paragraph.

To learn about your weapon ( Bo, Jo, sword or what ever ) one needs to find out what happens with contact. Obviously this can not be practiced on a person.
One needs to spend more time on their own than in class to really learn their weapon. So with the basics understood, one needs to go and work out the intricacies.
For example - a swinging strike ( like swinging a tennis racket ) will break almost any type of wood implament, if your striking area is in the wrong place. If you strike a target with the center of the shaft it will break, if you strike closer to your gripping hand it will have moveing force but not much velocity, if the contact point is 3/4 to 7/8 toward the tip it will have maximum power, if it hits at its tip it will vibrate through your hand so much you may loose control or your grip.
These details can only be learned with practice and experimentation.

So - what I am getting at is....even though one needs some instruction, one needs to work with all of what they learn on their own.

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#182886 - 01/04/06 12:29 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: Dr Zoidberg]
Diga Offline
Member

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 209
Loc: Hoodsport, Washington
By the way......WHERE DID DrZoidberg GO ?
Have you got anything else to add or ask about your topic ?

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#182887 - 01/04/06 12:42 PM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: JoelM]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
JoelM

Very "punny"
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#182888 - 04/26/07 09:33 AM Re: Bo Staff - home learning [Re: Dr Zoidberg]
jiggins Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 3
hello all, i am lookin for guidence of a skilled weapons weiler i am a high instructor in choi kwang do ( south korean form of tei kwang do) my martial arts is still young and we are trying to make links to other style so my students and others can brouden their minds, we have already made links to Akido in some areas but would like other styles. i understand that learnin from a book or DVD is fround upon because no 1 is their to correct you, BUT with teaching 5 times a week then training the rest of the time for my oh Dann (master) rank i have no time what so everto find a karate class and attend. please don't treat me link an idiot and mock the fact that i want to learn but cannot go to a class, and please tell me a video system or something so i can learn the basics

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