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#182321 - 08/30/05 08:43 AM kata apllication on the internet
znra251 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 39
i'm creating an online resources site for karate students and have managed to get loads of good stuff on the performance and technical aspect of every major kata (except goju-ryu, they're a little more illusive). Have a look at the website www.karateonline.org some of the international footage is amazing, mottram especially.

my question, however, is does anyone know of good stuff on bunkai floating around anywhere. If you do please let me kn ow as a kata without bunkai explained may just as well be a dance.

thanks

gary

www.karateonline.org

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#182322 - 08/30/05 09:22 AM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: znra251]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884

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#182323 - 08/30/05 10:25 AM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: oldman]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

http://www.karate.org.yu/articles/48%20techniques%20part%201.htm




These 48 moves is absolutely fantastic! Now tell me karate doesn't have grappling in it! Awesome, absolutely awesome!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#182324 - 08/30/05 10:41 AM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: Gavin]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Ok. Karate doesn't have grappling in it.

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#182325 - 08/30/05 11:06 AM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: oldman]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
The more I read your posts, the more I understand why you do so many cartoons! You silly man!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#182326 - 08/30/05 12:07 PM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: Gavin]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

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#182327 - 08/30/05 12:37 PM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: znra251]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
".....my question, however, is does anyone know of good stuff on bunkai floating around anywhere. If you do please let me kn ow as a kata without bunkai explained may just as well be a dance....."

I think I know what you are trying to say and I don't altogether disagree with you. However, there is a whole lot more to a true kata than just figuring out applications. Until Miyagi came along and coined the use of the term "bunkai" for analyzing katas in terms of practicality guidance in unfolding the various understandings regarding what kata are all about fell to the teacher-student relationship. Now, with all the media a lot of what used to be pretty well-protected material has become pretty well-known and basic MA fundamentals. All the same, the kata have a lot more to teach us than just better ways to bang heads.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

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#182328 - 08/30/05 12:47 PM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: glad2bhere]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Bruce,
I agree there is more to it than the bunkai. I also find those benefits harder to articulate. Would you take a shot at presenting what those benefits are as you percieve them?

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#182329 - 08/30/05 01:10 PM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: oldman]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Oh, now thats cool! You are one talented man my friend! I word of warning to the rest of the forum, never ever poke fun at an artist!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#182330 - 08/30/05 01:23 PM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: Gavin]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Gav,
I was tempted to draw your Dad but theres only a few thousand miles and an ocean between me and him. I may be silly but I'm not stupid.

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#182331 - 08/30/05 01:27 PM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: oldman]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Yeah, I'd watch it mate coz his out in you're neck of the woods in October! On seconds do one, he laughed at mine....He's still getting the hang of these forums so he'll never know!
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#182332 - 08/30/05 03:58 PM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: Gavin]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
'ello Gov.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

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#182333 - 08/30/05 05:12 PM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: oldman]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
nice resemblance then....................
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#182334 - 08/30/05 05:24 PM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: oldman]
glad2bhere Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 663
Loc: Lindenhurst, Illinois USA
I can give it a shot but it won't be an exhaustive list.

Lets start with the what we know and work backwards.

Certainly there is the technical aspect. This comes in two delicious flavors, concussive material (striking, kicking,blocking) and manipulative (redirection, subduing and throwing).

Moving back from WHAT a person does are the "HOW's. In this category are the manner in which techniques are done. A kata will often have odd little bits, seemingly pointless, sticking out around the edges. Often these are reminders to practice from a particularly unique vector or attitude.Also we dare not forget that though a nation can produce an art, there is always the matter tha different people will come up with alternate ways to accomplish the same thing. This is where one can get into stylistic differences.

Moving back yet again are the strategies. Most people are familiar with kata like "Bassai" and wonder at why some kata have such odd names. The names are often clues to the strategic or tactic approach one needs to take into consideration. For instance the idea or "theme" behind BASSAI ("to move from a position of disadvantage to advantage") is an art all in itself.

Moving back from strategy we come to philosophy. At this level a kata speaks to approach to the art or intention for training. For instance Itosu's development of the Pinan kata speaks to spoon feeding technical training to younger practitioners. Very different from the free forms of older training.In hand with philosophy are the health benefits. Best known are the TCC forms which are incredibly fine combat material when viewed through Chen TCC but also enhanced health exercises such as the Yang, Wu and Sun versions of the same material. BTW: For those who want to through Dim Mak into the mix I guess this would be the place to do it.

Lastly are the cultural bits such as breathing, poses, mudras, contemplation, dance, dress and so forth.

All of this stuff is just waiting there for people to discover it. All it takes is time and the desire to know more.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

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#182335 - 08/31/05 07:26 AM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: oldman]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Muwhahhahahahah.....you fell right into my trap! *Switches to Kid from the Waltons mode* Now, I'm gonna tell pa!

My Daddy's gonna come over there and kick your a$$! Ner nicky ner ner!

hehehehehe...Thats cool oldman! If I ever get round to writing a book, can I comission you to do the artwork???
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#182336 - 08/31/05 01:50 PM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: oldman]
jamesd Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 145
Loc: Essex,England
Hi Oldman!

This picture is great but to achieve a true likeness you should've drawn Gavin's ears bigger! regards,

James.
_________________________
www.hardfasthandway.com

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#182337 - 08/31/05 05:49 PM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: jamesd]
McSensei Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1068
Loc: Kent, England
Is this the Jamesd I think it is?
If so, hello again.

G2BH,
Eloquently put.

Oldman,
I'm so glad you don't know what I look like.

Actually, I look like...
_________________________
http://www.semtexgym.co.uk/

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#182338 - 09/01/05 05:00 AM Re: kata apllication on the internet [Re: McSensei]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

Is this the Jamesd I think it is?
If so, hello again.




Yes it is the Jamesd you think it is! I'll let him get away with this comment, after the jaw lock I put on him the other night......
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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