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#182196 - 11/27/05 03:55 PM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: trevek]
Immortal_Highlander Offline
Member Banned

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 81
Loc: Boston, Ma
I know all of you chinese stylists will be mad... but kung fu in it's modern state is mostly innefective and too diluted to be of any reliability. It looks great in movies, where fights last ten minutes, but is utter nonsense in this brutal world of our lord.
The only effective cast of gung-fu that I have encountered is wu-shu... perhaps ancient shaolin as well. Even Bruce
Lee understood just how much nonsense has pervaded the chinese schools.
There is simply too much fluff and not enough substance in most modern kung fu. So stylists beware... your Japamerican counterparts along with S. Americans, have continued in the original kung fu tradition...we take what works and scrap everything else. That should be the goal of all martial artists.

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#182197 - 11/27/05 07:21 PM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: Immortal_Highlander]
1neikoot Offline
Member

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 230
Loc: Candy Land
Quote:

I know all of you chinese stylists will be mad... but kung fu in it's modern state is mostly innefective and too diluted to be of any reliability. It looks great in movies, where fights last ten minutes, but is utter nonsense in this brutal world of our lord.
The only effective cast of gung-fu that I have encountered is wu-shu... perhaps ancient shaolin as well. Even Bruce
Lee understood just how much nonsense has pervaded the chinese schools.
There is simply too much fluff and not enough substance in most modern kung fu. So stylists beware... your Japamerican counterparts along with S. Americans, have continued in the original kung fu tradition...we take what works and scrap everything else. That should be the goal of all martial artists.




Immortal_Highlander

I can see you are a banned member, if your not, you should be. The reason behind your ignorance is because you yourself watch too many movies where fights last "ten" minutes.

You have proven yourself to be more deluded then every anti-TMA'st I have ever witnessed. You claim Wushu is the most effective kung-fu style you witnessed, when in fact it is more of a performing art. Obviously you know nothing about Chinese kung-fu and your not qualified to give any statements whatsoever due to your limited knowledge and experience.

Secondly, you state "Even Bruce Lee understood just how much nonsense has pervaded the chinese schools". What about the fact he avoided confrontations with other Masters in the Chinese arts? Read a detailed book about him and maybe you'll actually know something. By the way, Bruce Lee was actually referring to ALL MA'ts in general, not just Chinese Kung-fu you idiot.
In conclusion, you know nothing about real Kung-fu, you take it as what it is in hollywood movies, I don't blame you, because most people are like that. Granted there are many McDojo's that are unqualified, but judging all kung-fu to be innecfective is a big mistake.

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#182198 - 11/27/05 09:46 PM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: 1neikoot]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
1neikoot,

Immortal_Highlander has been banned. Some steps are best not followed.

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#182199 - 12/07/05 07:19 PM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: eyrie]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
Well Bruce Lee did make alot of good points, and that is that alot of TMA'ists, and even so called "masters" are disillusioned.They either rely too much on their structure, or don't rely on it enough. You must find a balance in everything you do, and when you train, train for REAL. Don't just go through the movements, and think your style will save you when the day comes.

If you want to get the most out of your style, train with the right mindset and intensity. But in order to do so, you must be familiar with what human agression is, and what fighting is actually like outside the classroom, where people probably aren't trying to seriously hurt you.

An old teacher of mine once tried something, we were doing tumbling and falling drills with a sword. He got out a cheap wushu sword and swiped it at our legs, head, body etc. and we had to either jump, duck, get in push up position, and get back up etc. But most of us got hit because it just wasn't "dangerous" He then got out a real sword, with real weight, but perhaps not sharpened.All of a sudden our performance improved, everyone was jumping and dodging as if their life depended on it.

Sometimes, even in internal styles. People "relax" so much that they don't sense or know how to acknowledge danger and when to strike. Some just see fighting as a passive thing. But the truth is that it is too much "yin," you have to balance that with Yang and know when to attack/counter. And not just in the "im going to push you away" sense, like many teachers demonstrate, but in actual strikes, throws, kicks, or joint locks/limb breaks.Taiji is a fighting art, not a pushing art. There are plenty of punches and kicks, even leaps in the art (at least in Chen). And yet all teachers do is demonstrate their incredible push hands skill. A real punch is very hard to stick and adhere to unless you made contact with it before the attack was initiated.

Even in gong fu classes nowdays, I see people able to do some amazing athletic feats, and even hit targets hard. But they have no clue as to what fighting really is. When they do forms they go through the motions, with no understanding of what the form is either for, or putting themselves in the right mindset. Some do the form perfectly, but there is no "heart" or no real power.
_________________________
Truth comes from the absolute stillness of the mind...

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#182200 - 12/14/05 08:47 PM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: BaguaMonk]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
I wonder if those who doubt themselves in a real combat situation are the same that find weight training an act of condescension?

Guy

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#182201 - 12/16/05 02:47 PM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: Guy]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
I study at a long fist Mcdojo - I study there because it is close to my house, and they have classes two days a week in MMA, which I am intersted in. I have stopped going to the long fist classes.


I have seen my schools sifu in action, and he is very very impressive. he is about 130 pounds, but he has huge power and speed, and he has a vast arsinal of weapons. although he can do all sorts of "flowery" stuff, in most situations he just uses a few simple moves.

at any given time, there may be 50 or more students in the school, who are doing nothing more than basic forms. you can get to a black sash in two years, without ever sparing or actually hitting a person.

this was what threw me off, and why I stopped going to the long fist classes. but now I see, that there are also about 5 students at any time, black sash students, who are the schools real students - they have gotten to the point where they ca really study well and move forward.

I guess what I am trying to say is that in a lot of martial arts, you can get to a pretty good point quickly. in kung fu is seems that you can get farther, but it will take you years and years.

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#182202 - 01/28/06 08:16 PM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: globetrotter]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
One street fighting combination I like is to telegraph a wide right hand roundhouse punch, and then when they try to block it, quickly pull it back transfering the momentom to the left hand and hit them with a left jab, they donít even see it coming. :-)

I can also do another version of it using kicking techniques by starting out with a right roundhouse kick, then just before making contact with their block, I yank it back transfering the momentum of the right foot into the left foot and kick them with a left front snap kick.

You have to be very careful doing this because you have so much power in the front snap kick that you can seriously injure someone with it. You also have to careful landing back on the right foot when you yank it back because if you hit the floor with it too hard, you could injure your Achilles tendon. Been there, done that.

Guy

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#182203 - 02/05/06 07:53 AM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: Guy]
Guy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana USA
You guys might not believe this but I kid you not, there are people out there that can beat me. One time I met such a person. He was bigger then me by about 50 pounds. I seen how he fights, he was a grabbling ground fighter. I don't have much experience ground fighting like that and he was really good but he kept wanting to spar me and I didn't really want to do it. Well one day he really irritated me and I finally said I would spar him but I donít have time to do it today so I will do it tomorrow. We was in a park when all this took place so I said Iíll be here tomorrow.

Will I donít know about how it is in your part of the world but around here where I live in the woods there is a plant called poison oak. If you just brush against it even the slightest bit, about four or five days later your skin will break out in blisters and it will drive you crazy with the itching. So first I put some poison ivy cream on my skin to help protect me from it then I fasten my undershirt to my pants with safety pins and put on heavy clothing, then I went out into the woods and spent about an hour rubbing poison oak against all the parts of my body that I know he would grab. I made sure I got a lot of poison oak on my shirt on the forearm area. Then I was ready.

Well at first we sat around talking and then he said, ok are you ready to spar me. I didnít want to look eager so I said, I donít know, I know you will beat me because Iím not good in your style. He knew that since we were just playing around I wouldnít use a felony technique against him. (Felony techniques are what I call the techniques that will land you in jail for a long time, like ripping a personís arm out of their shoulder socket.) So when we sparred. Sure enough he kept getting me on the ground and made me tap out. I kept saying, well let me try something else. And we did it again and again. I tried as best I could to defend myself when I was on the ground but I was working more on getting poison oak on him then trying to beat him at his own game by doing things like trying to get him off me by pushing against his face with my forearms dragging my forearms across his bare belly and wherever I could see some bare skin. I finally said, ok, I had enough. You beat me fair and square. So we sat back down on the picnic table and he was laughing about how easy it was to beat me. I told him, yeah, you got the last laugh all right. Then I went home and soaked myself in the bathtub for about an hour scrubbing my skin with comet.

Poison oak doesnít take affect for about four or five days but from what I heard he had to go to the hospital. Also apparently he didnít wash his hands before he went to the bathroom. And he also got it on his girlfriend. He didnít know what was going on with him. I was planning on telling him I did it but when I heard how bad he got it I decided maybe I better not. I think he kind of figured it out though because he kept looking at me funny like he was thinking maybe it was me, or maybe it was someone else he was wrestling around with.

There is an old saying that oh is so true, ďHe who laughs last laughs best.Ē

Guy

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#182204 - 02/05/06 12:04 PM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: Guy]
kusojiji Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
Maybe there should be a special section of the forum dedicated to poorly written fiction.
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#182205 - 02/05/06 12:35 PM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: Stone Carver]
Dudley32 Offline
master of disaster

Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 482
Loc: Indiana
Quote:

Many people say that gong-fu is to flowery an ineffective. And, for the most part this is true. But, if one looks back far enought almost all gong-fu systems were developed for actual combat. I,ve theorized that if one could get back to basics and strip away all the changes that have occured over the years(such as the flashy moves added by the Pi King opera)the systems become drasticaly more effective. Just something to chew on, I'd love to hear other peoples success stories in the future.




Wouldnt that basically be what Jeet Kune Do is? thats exactly what Bruce lee did to gong fu.

Matt
_________________________
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect Practice makes perfect.

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