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#182156 - 08/29/05 08:54 PM Gong-Fu in the streets
Stone Carver Offline
Thinker
Member

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 80
Loc: Dixie
Many people say that gong-fu is to flowery an ineffective. And, for the most part this is true. But, if one looks back far enought almost all gong-fu systems were developed for actual combat. I,ve theorized that if one could get back to basics and strip away all the changes that have occured over the years(such as the flashy moves added by the Pi King opera)the systems become drasticaly more effective. Just something to chew on, I'd love to hear other peoples success stories in the future.
_________________________
I am the MOST modest person in the world. You hear that? ME!

Stone Carver

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#182157 - 08/30/05 04:04 AM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: Stone Carver]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia


Jingle, Jingle Little Star,
How I wonder what you are,
Up above the world so high,
Like a diamond in the sky.


Snakes are coiled upon the granite,
Horsemen ride into the West,
Moons are rising on the planet,
Where the worst must suffer like the rest.


If you were to teach early grade school children, which of the two verses will you choose? Why?

Traditionally, martial arts (like Kung Fu, karate etc) practice starts at a very young age. It is only when it came to the West did older or even elderly people took it up. It is therefore understandable that these older people finds it "flowery" and therefore thought that the combat-functional elements are missing. When I started at a young age like everybody else, I never thought about combat-efficiency or the lack of it; in fact we were not encouraged to think much; what opinions could a boy of 6 or 7 have about matters as complex as combat-efficiency? Just do what you are told and things will happen as a matter of course for the people who invented these things are a lot smarter than you.

The problem now of course is telling this to a 20 year old Westerner, who is not doing it to inherit or to perpetuate a great family cultural tradition, but to seek out in the shortest possible time the "secrets" of fighting. He is also 20 years old and cannot be spending the next 10 years weaving 'flowers' Please there are exceptions and these exceptional people have my admiration. If I had not started at a very young age, I too would have had the same complaint.

The study of TMA is like an inverted pyramid; lots of flowery stuff at the top and slowly, gradually wind down to a small sharp tip where all the so-called flowery stuff are condensed into a few moves, which are really the true combat-essence of that particular style; but to do these few moves with the required devastating accuracy and power, you need to have gone through the flowery stuff. Some people may not agree with this, but that at least was the theoretical bases.

So to get at the essence of the second poem above, you need to have understood the first.

For those who "got" the essence of the first poem and still couldn't get at the second.......ehhhhh.......seek out a qualified instructor in your area.
_________________________
I'll rather be happy than right, anytime.

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#182158 - 08/30/05 02:33 PM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: Stone Carver]
tookien1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/05
Posts: 299
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Only a few styles of kung-fu are actually very effective and have not been modified for sport/competition fighting due to western influence. If you want a good style for real no rules fighting, then I suggest Pak Mei (white eyebrow), do some research on this style, you'll find nothing else like it. This style is rare and hard to find with a credible Master. Its incredible hard and takes patience and determination to get good at, no shorcuts on this one.

tookien1

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#182159 - 08/30/05 04:08 PM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: Stone Carver]
etaks86 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 161
I don't know i think things are much easier then people make them. just like the socalled secrets of gung fu, wushu, whatever you like to call it. my point is i don't believe in such secrets, i don't really think there's is any secrets at all the only secret is is that there is no secrets and i think after a lifetime of martial arts someone might just figure that out. A punch is a punch and a kick is a kick that's all there is to it. that my friend is the secret of martial arts. it's simplicity. it's not hard to understand tai chi, bagua zhang or any art for that matter they all teach the samethings. almost all of them use the same ideas in one way or another. yin yang is not hard to understand, how the concept of yin yang applies in martial arts, well like this do not use force against force, just go with it do not try to change it accept it, do not worry about if you win or lose both are a natural part of life just let it happen and let it take it's course.
yin yang are never seperate that is impossiable. yin yang are two forces that work within each other, one action is a reaction to the other and so on forever. there is no hard or soft style. a person that believes a style can be pure hard or soft does not understand yin yang. people cannot live without the sun and the moon you must have both in order for the earth to be able to sastain life. you understand with pure sun everything would burn and die, and with pure moon or darkness if you will, then everything would die because earth needs the suns energy to survive and the earth needs the moon to control it's gravitiy and the oceans, without the moon the earth would slip into chaos. forgive my bad spelling but you get my point. yin yang are one in the same. all styles use the same concepts for the most part. so you see the only different thing is their body movements. after all how many ways are they to come in on somebody without leaving a opening for them to attack. not many.

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#182160 - 08/30/05 05:25 PM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: Stone Carver]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Any art can be practiced and but if you know how to strip down a art to vital needs Gung-fu is very effective in a street fight. I know of several men who have built a reputation on the street handling street punks and gang memebers using Ch'uan-fa. One is so effective that even his golden glove boxing cousin is in awe of him. He has seen him in combat were as a boxer can handle 1 opponent pretty handily, he has seen Ken take out three at one time. This guy reknowed for his fighting ability.

He showed me a knee to elbow arm break technique, its disguised so U don't respond to it until its too late. He is a powerful technican. Though a medium size man he has in a nightclub confrontation knocked bigger stronger men out with a punch or punches.

If practiced correctly Gung-fu is very street effective.
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#182161 - 08/30/05 06:33 PM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: ButterflyPalm]
tookien1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/05
Posts: 299
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I also think that there are no secrets in MA. A punch is a punch and a kick is a kick. Thats correct, but then punch someone with a pheonix eye in the solar plex, rib cage or throat would do ten times more damage than a normal punch. But not everyone can use pheonix eye unless it's conditioned properly and knowing where to hit. So obviously its not a secret because I'm addressing it on the forum, but go up against someone who's trained with it for 20 years, make one mistake, and your in for it.

tookien1

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#182162 - 08/30/05 07:30 PM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: tookien1]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
The secrets of gong fu, or any martial art, have nothing to do with the techniques themselves, but what you develop as, and derive from mentally, physically, and spiritually from your training. The secrets come naturally to you when training, or sometimes even just meditating or thinking. A good teacher can help you reach them, on your own.

Tookien, Pak Mei is definitely the #1 style of gung fu that I want to learn, but I can't find it. Is there any credible teachers around Dallas Texas? I might be moving to LA or San diego next year, any around there?
_________________________
Truth comes from the absolute stillness of the mind...

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#182163 - 08/30/05 08:14 PM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: Stone Carver]
Stone Carver Offline
Thinker
Member

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 80
Loc: Dixie
I'm not talking about making gong-fu into some new super straight-forward system for street fighting.
I,m not talking about casting aside tradition.
I,m talking about making it more traditional, by decoding the system and reverting it back to what it once was.
Changes have occured over the past thousands of years.
If one takes the system back to it's origanal form(which I know isn't entirely possible) than it will inevidably be more practical in combat.
_________________________
I am the MOST modest person in the world. You hear that? ME!

Stone Carver

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#182164 - 08/31/05 02:55 AM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: Stone Carver]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
Not necessarily. What we need is teachers first of all with enough experience, actual trianing time, and no commercial/political nonsense that plagues martial art schools now. And people who are willing to work hard, learn every day (not just twice a week)and dedicate alot of time. That is the only real way gong fu is as effective as it should be.
_________________________
Truth comes from the absolute stillness of the mind...

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#182165 - 08/31/05 08:29 AM Re: Gong-Fu in the streets [Re: Stone Carver]
etaks86 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 161
things should change with the times. that's the natural process of life things change. if things stop changging then it becomes stale and dies. anyone that believes the concept of yin yang should welcome change. things change to fit the needs of people today, that's how life works. people should stop looking to the past at traditions and such and look to the future. to me any traditional ma wouldn't have a problem with this because if they know the yin yang concept then they will understand that life is change and you should go with it and not against it.

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