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#179911 - 08/24/05 10:43 PM Re: BJJ reality check [Re: MattJ]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Quote:

Rational evaluation:
A person with 6 months of BJJ (/MMA etc) is more likely to avoid groundfighting and/or survive better if forced into groundfighting, than someone with 6 months of mainstream punch-kick MA. All those hypothetical arguments about blades, glass, lava etc, apply equally if not moreso to mainstream quasi-traditional stand-up arts. Therefore, BJJ, or rather credible groundfighting, is relevant to SD.





I for the most part agree with that, KK. My only point of contention (and I don't actually want to argue with it), is what would you call "mainstream". Let's just leave the semantics out of it and agree on what the main point is.

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#179912 - 08/31/05 08:33 AM Re: BJJ reality check [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
I apologise from now because I havent read all the response just two pages of them.
This discussion has been approached many times and that is why I didnt really bother reading your answers, most of you guys I know your opinions and they are sensible and correct.
The only thing that I can think of that plays a role in the question is delivery system. A MA such as karate or wing chun has a well established well refined delivery system and theory behind its principles and its fighting applications. You can take those principles and learn BJJ and use them effectively. It would be ignorant for someone to say they will never use grappling or I will never use that move or I dont need this and that. Fact is that you never know. I dont want to end up on the floor for whatever reason and not know how to deal with it and rely on me thrashing about like an imbacile. I would be very embarassed and ashamed of myself, if I got into a fight, slipped on the icy road and after years of dedicated training tried to beat my opponent by convulsing like an idiot and throwing wild kicks. I want to learn EVERYTHING. I knoe that is impossible so I will try to learn as much as I can.
So even if I do plan to start grappling, who says that I will have learnt it by the time I get into a fight that ends up on the floor. What if I fall on my butt tomorow? What if a grappler that has intentions to learn but currently doesnt know how to throw a punch gets into a fight with a wing chun dude?
What if you have never trained against roundhouse kicks because you think they are inefective and someone throws a roundhouse?
The quest in MAs is to learn as much as possible, and you will certainly not do that by limiting yourself due to egoistic prejudices.

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#179913 - 09/01/05 12:04 AM Re: BJJ reality check [Re: MAGr]
monji112000 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 177
too many responses.. lol

MAGr.. JMO but you are 100% correct.

being able to adapt to any situation is the best plan.
the most important skill in a fight is not ground fighting or striking.. its timing and reflexes. JMO the nature of BJJ forces you to learn these two skills.

One point..

every position/skill has pro or con ..

in a self defense situation the main concern is to protect. Get yourself in a position were you are safe and get out (ie run).

Lumping every application ( arena ) for a fighting art can be very misleading.

JMO


Edited by monji112000 (09/01/05 12:12 AM)

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#179914 - 09/09/05 01:02 PM Re: BJJ reality check [Re: McSensei]
IronBones Offline
Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 67
Loc: Ashland Illinois
Bjj has saved my life on the street more than once and I'd say in my opinion it is the Most effective style

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#179915 - 09/10/05 08:07 AM Re: BJJ reality check [Re: monji112000]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

too many responses.. lol

MAGr.. JMO but you are 100% correct.

being able to adapt to any situation is the best plan.




That's absolutely correct. That's why BJJ is a HUGE part of my JKD (being a long time JKD guy). I began studying BJJ relatively late (been doing it about 9 years now) because I realized how poor my prior training methods were and how vulnerable I was against a good grappler.

I also realized that when you put on some decent protective gear, and have your partner fight you as hard as possible (either trying to knock you out or take you down), it's very difficult to remain standing for any length of time - particularly if he's good at takedowns.

BJJ fills a HUGE gap in the fight game.

Quote:

the most important skill in a fight is not ground fighting or striking.. its timing and reflexes. JMO the nature of BJJ forces you to learn these two skills.




True. Boxing and clinch wrestling also force you to develop timing and reflexes. This is especially true when clinching, takedowns and ground fighting (wrestling to submission) are all allowed within your boxing training.

Quote:

One point..

every position/skill has pro or con ..

in a self defense situation the main concern is to protect. Get yourself in a position were you are safe and get out (ie run).




Couldn't agree more. This is especially true if you're a civilian. Your first priority is to "survive" - not "win". BJJ training goes a LONG way toward developing your ability to survive in a most hostile scenario (being on your back, on the ground in a street fight).


-John

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#179916 - 09/10/05 08:19 AM Re: BJJ reality check [Re: MAGr]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by MAGr -

Quote:

The quest in MAs is to learn as much as possible, and you will certainly not do that by limiting yourself due to egoistic prejudices




I think that says it all.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#179917 - 09/10/05 03:17 PM Re: BJJ reality check [Re: MattJ]
Anonymous
Unregistered


i just wonder if bjj guys will deliberatly,as their primary response to knowing they will be attacked or are being attacked ,take it to the ground.in which case i personnaly dont agree.
i think everyone should know what they will do if faced by someone and work and work and work it....just one thing.i dont mean one techinique ...i mean one response.
then secondary response and more to fall back on..
the primary ones should be strikes or locks/takedowns to put THEM on the floor ....then run.
has any bjj people used it on the street ...anyone been to the floor ?...in all mine i havnt ,,,iv tryed to be taken there....though escaped..minus a shirt.

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#179918 - 09/10/05 08:48 PM Re: BJJ reality check
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

has any bjj people used it on the street ...anyone been to the floor ?...




BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Funniest post EVER!
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#179919 - 09/10/05 09:05 PM Re: BJJ reality check [Re: MattJ]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
funniest question..?
its a proper question...to anyone ....whos been on the floor and what happened.?just like iv seen people asking who's kicked,,who's locked,,etc.
not a sarcastic question or put down ,a proper one.
id like to know.
sigh
_________________________
I point my saxaphone at the rare Booted Gorilla.

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#179920 - 09/10/05 09:53 PM Re: BJJ reality check [Re: matxtx]
ta_kuan_dao Offline
Member

Registered: 06/13/05
Posts: 58
Loc: Memphis, TN
I have nothing much more to add. IMHO i agree with MAGr a 100%. If your are just training in one area, whether it be grappling, groundfighting, kicks and punches, or defense, you are doing something wrong. in a real fight, anything can happen and u can hit anywhere and anyway. U can't be the best in every area but just knowing the rudiments of an area can help u. No sytle of fighting or way of fighting is the best. Many ppl think that grapplers can take on strikers anyday. But if a striker even knows some of the rudimentary of grappling, he has a good chance of defending against grappling. Case in point, a while back, Royler of Royce Gracie was defeated by a shootboxer named Yamashita. Yamashita is not a very good grappler, but he knew enough to stay on his feet and he knocked out a Gracie(don't remember which)

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